"Adc is the most stressful role"

Hyrum Graff·Aug 5, 2016·76 votes·6,913 views

This was not true in the cinderhulk meta.

In the cinderhulk meta, you have to position well to keep yourself from getting locked down. You have to have good mechanics so you can deal as much dps to burn through the tanks more quickly than the other carry. But you had a front line who would actually peel for you. Who keeps the enemy assassins off of you and who CC's the enemy carries if they try to get close enough to kill you directly.

When you have an Irelia top, a quinn jungle, and a brand support, there's nobody to keep their graves top, Jhin adc, Sona support, Yasuo mid, etc from blowing you up.

Why is youmuu/duskblade Jhin's most popular build even though its DPS is significantly lower than a ER/IE/Shiv build against people with even one armor item? Because this meta is all about carries killing each other, not carries killing the enemy frontline.

#makecinderhulkgreatagain

170 Comments

Ace Access Aug 5, 201653 votes

I'd like a meta where the enemy mid and jg would stop camping bot lane

Hyrum GraffAug 5, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace Access ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z18KmNtM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-05T14:59:06.975+0000)

I'd like a meta where the enemy mid and jg would stop camping bot lane

lol gl with that

Photos of GhostsAug 5, 201612 votes

I'd like a meta where I don't consistently feed and lag and then feed more

TimewinderAug 5, 20167 votes

I wish I lagged a bit more so that I had more excuses for dying so much

ZT XperimentorAug 5, 201613 votes

I'd like a meta were marksmen & assassins don't decide everything.

StaliniumAug 6, 20162 votes

The only reason assassins have become relevant is the blink/dashless marksman that are strong right now (Jhin, Ashe, Sivir)- so yes, it certainly does seem that those 2 control the meta

KING 5HARKAug 6, 20164 votes

ADCs control the meta since season 2, nothing new here

AMYS GRAVEAug 5, 20162 votes

Luckily early tower defense changes will fix that, wait....

Only Play DariusAug 5, 20165 votes

Riot: We got you!

Proceeds to remove damage reduction from bottom lane turrets

Im The Jayce GodAug 6, 20161 votes

I'd like a meta where players know that cs is more important than risking a death for a chance at killing someone.

RalanrAug 6, 20164 votes

So above silver?

BastionKrossAug 5, 201624 votes

When you have an Irelia top, a quinn jungle, and a brand support, there's nobody to keep their graves top, Jhin adc, Sona support, Yasuo mid, etc from blowing you up.

Because this meta is all about carries killing each other, not carries killing the enemy frontline.

These are symptoms of the "Everyone has to be a carry" mentality that has always existed in ranked, but season six made so, so much worse by increasing damage across the board.

I mean really, who needs a marksman when every member of your team can chunk tanks and delete squishies this season?

R FLASH XDAug 5, 201621 votes

Yea sejuani destroying everyone was very fun indeed

Hyrum GraffAug 5, 20169 votes

[{quoted}](name=Horny Flamingo,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z18KmNtM,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-08-05T15:28:00.769+0000)

Yea sejuani destroying everyone was very fun indeed

And then she got rightly nerfed for it.

Tentacle LoveAug 6, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z18KmNtM,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-08-05T15:50:02.574+0000)

And then she got rightly nerfed for it.

Twice at once!

..which kinda makes sense when you add the boar into the equation.

AMYS GRAVEAug 5, 201615 votes

Sej was strong for one patch before getting nerfed, getting her core build nerfed, and never seen again. Meanwhile some problem champions get love taps occasionally but still dominate the meta for months.

LuggAug 5, 201618 votes

I have never thought ADC was the most stressful due to a couple reasons. First, they have a dedicated support to help them out. No other role has that. Second, ADCs are and always have been one of the strongest classes in the game. You just farm good, get a couple items, and then delete enemies.

I do agree the cinderhulk meta was the most balanced time in LoL history though. It was really fun to have close games. It made it feel like you actually earned the victory instead of winning a 50-10 snowball.

PhDs NutsAug 5, 201613 votes

{quoted}

I have never thought ADC was the most stressful due to a couple reasons. First, they have a dedicated support to help them out. No other role has that.

I'll never understand this "they have a support" argument. So does the lane they're playing against. Yeah, a 2v1 lane would be super stress-free. That's not what happens.

It's like saying 5v5 teamfights shouldn't be stressful because you have 4 teammates.

Hyrum GraffAug 5, 20169 votes

{quoted}

I have never thought ADC was the most stressful due to a couple reasons. First, they have a dedicated support to help them out. No other role has that. Second, ADCs are and always have been one of the strongest classes in the game.

Adc is stressful because they're strong, not in spite of it. If adcs weren't strong, they wouldn't be the top priority target of every single member of the enemy team.

You just farm good, get a couple items, and then delete enemies.

The flip side to this is that when the enemy team has adcs too, they just farm good, get a couple items, and delete YOU. It's a race to see who can cancel the fewest aa's and burst the other person before they can burst you. Why do you think flat armor pen is so popular on adcs right now? It isn't because it helps kill tanks.

Hinagiku33Aug 5, 201613 votes

Yeah, when you have enough damage to single-handedly decide the game based on your performance alone it must get pretty stressful.

Perhaps if Marksmen didn't have such obscene damage then we wouldn't need an entire class of champions dedicated to mindlessly diving on them and deleting them before they can blink just to keep them in line and we could make the role less stressful.

Maybe we could tone down their burst damage so they actually needed time to DPS targets instead of instantly exploding any carry they could right-click on, you know, so their damage was amazing but only if they lived long enough to dish it out since they don't have to stop for mana and cooldowns. Maybe encourage tanks and stuff to peel and utilize teamwork to access that amazing damage...

...nah.

Hyrum GraffAug 5, 20164 votes

First off, let me put it out there: I play almost every role equally, so I think I'm fairly unbiased towards any one role.

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z18KmNtM,comment-id=000600010000,timestamp=2016-08-05T19:46:27.347+0000)

Yeah, when you have enough damage to single-handedly decide the game based on your performance alone it must get pretty stressful.

I mean, yes. This is the point of the thread. Not enough tanks -> everything is ranged and everything kills and dies quickly -> really fucking stressful for adc.

Why did adcs opt into items like steraks and maw? Because having a sliver of room to mess up and still get out alive is -- aside from being really strong -- much less stressful.

Perhaps if Marksmen didn't have such obscene damage then we wouldn't need an entire class of champions dedicated to mindlessly diving on them and deleting them before they can blink just to keep them in line and we could make the role less stressful.

I'm ~~secretly~~ hoping that the assassin class update might also see some changes to marksman itemization.

Particularly, I hope that marksmen get pushed back towards crit builds instead of arpen builds. If you don't have item 3031 item 3035 item 3086 in your build path, you shouldn't be able to scratch a tank.

Maybe we could tone down their burst damage so they actually needed time to DPS targets instead of instantly exploding any carry they could right-click on, you know, so their damage was amazing but only if they lived long enough to dish it out since they don't have to stop for mana and cooldowns. Maybe encourage tanks and stuff to peel and utilize teamwork to access that amazing damage..

I don't honestly think adc damage is the problem. If an adc gets in range of another adc, yeah, it's OK for them to burst.

The thing is, if you (adc) get in range to kill me (enemy adc), if I have any front line at all, they should be locking you down so my team can blow you up. But that's not happening because everyone is just going damage so they can blow you up themselves.

IPromiseTomorrowAug 6, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I have never thought ADC was the most stressful due to a couple reasons. First, they have a dedicated support to help them out. No other role has that. Second, ADCs are and always have been one of the strongest classes in the game. You just farm good, get a couple items, and then delete enemies.

I do agree the cinderhulk meta was the most balanced time in LoL history though. It was really fun to have close games. It made it feel like you actually earned the victory instead of winning a 50-10 snowball.

Ya but didn't you hear the guy? In this season there are more "supports" like lux, brand, vel. Who destroy people infront of them but they can't protect their adc too well. Especially when the lux isn't going to buy an Athens for their carry. Nor is that brand rushing sight stone.

Yea you see him get ruby crystal but that's for his 3.2k rylais that he gets from ks'ing and such. And you never get the best support every game nor the best jungler every game. ADC is just in a tough spot where they could do just about everything perfect but they will still lose. Because of bad peel, bad ganks, mid laner feeds, that Jax and Irelia will build tri and destroy you. The Lee sin and Kha zix will camp your lane.

ADC is stresfull because it's inevitable that bad shit is going to to happen that's out of your control.

Not saying anything ADC can't solo carry but, If you die from your team failing to protect you. Would you be saying ADC is easy?

VallalanAug 5, 201613 votes

as an adc main, no fucking thank you.

tank meta is actual cancer as you aren't dealing with one or two tanks you are dealing with 3 tanks and at its height cinderhulk would have 5 tanks with fucking urgot adc as a pick sometimes. (never forget sejuani jungle, cho mid, urgot adc, nautilus support, and maokai top teams). you would be rendered obsolete because you could never get to deal any meaningful damage to any of them.

I remember building full crit/armor shred with items like the then stronger bork, cleaver, last whisper, IE, PD, zerkers and I still could not get through the teams. it was simply too much to deal with.

Every meta is designed to fuck adcs. some are where you instantly die when you fuck up even slightly. others are where you basically are borderline obsolete and deal no dmg. I'll take the first as at least if I die to the fed as fuck fizz I know its my fault. As opposed to kiting a 5k health sejuani for ages and not even getting through half her life bar.

The meta is FINE right now. There are some tanks who work really well up top in maokai, shen and in the jungle you got gragas, rek sai, et c. who are all relevant beefy frontliners. supports are extremely well rounded right now.

the meta you are talking about isn't a thing right now. that's season 4 everyone b lows up in 2 seconds meta. I hope we never get to THAT, but I also hope we never go back to a tank meta. I think everything is just fine right now.

WoonStruckAug 5, 20169 votes

ADC has been a staple, required role that significantly impacts the game in every single meta. Every. Single. One.

Don't make up bullshit just because ADC couldn't completely fend for themselves at times.

Due to what they are, they shouldn't be able to fend for themselves, which is part of why Cinderhulk meta was perfect. Especially because Cinderhulk meta made assassins extremely risky.

Your team should have to peel for the ADC.

DengedenAug 5, 20164 votes

ADC has been a staple, required role that significantly impacts the game in every single meta. Every. Single. One.

Yes, it's the only role that can afford to be underleveled.

Your team should have to peel for the ADC.

What part of "peeling" involves somehow buffing up your ADC to be able to kill a tank?

NiaphimAug 5, 20163 votes

Yes, it's the only role that can afford to be underleveled.

You mean, supports who don't get any experience outside of being near minions and assists? Not like they need to roam to ward or something not getting any experience

What part of "peeling" involves somehow buffing up your ADC to be able to kill a tank?

item 3050 item 3504 - to deal more damage item 3190 item 3401 item 3222 - to survive. Not like tanks are going to burst you through those shields, heals and lifesteal item 3025 item 3092 item 3069 - to kite or to chase That is not counting champions abilities. You are welcome to use all of this provided by your teammates.

DengedenAug 6, 20161 votes

Ok then, supports are "a staple required role that significantly impacts the game at any point" too.

Ardent Censer and Zeke's weren't a thing during the Cinderhulk meta. Slows are not going to help kill a tank through all their tenacity and MS.

kasfasAug 6, 20163 votes

See here, this is a problem. ADC is a role (or class) but support is a POSITION.

That's like saying toplane is a staple required role in every game.

ADC should NOT be the only viable champions to either A) carry games B) damage objectives C) work in the bot POSITION

And I think the largest problem is the fact that adcs can attack towers with little retaliation, while melees get retaliated on from range and die a lot easier.

That's why range is a problem in this game, it gives little counter except larger range, a gapcloser, faster movement (like udyr fast), or crowd control.

I personally don't think that melee champions should be balanced around NOT having ranged abilities, and in fact range and mobility should have drawbacks that melee doesn't have. Unfortunately riot decided that they prefer to buff the melee champions in their own ways such as ludicrous damage or a rediculous gap closer, so we're stuck with what we have. And since ranged sustained damage is just so broken because of how free it is and how it requires resources to stop, ADCs will always be a required role unlike every single other role.

If I have some inconsistencies or some shit, it's cuz I'm literally lying in bed at 3:00 am trying to sleep. So sorry 'bout that.

MunchCrunchLunchAug 6, 20164 votes

{quoted}

See here, this is a problem. ADC is a role (or class) but support is a POSITION.

That's like saying toplane is a staple required role in every game.

ADC should NOT be the only viable champions to either A) carry games B) damage objectives C) work in the bot POSITION

And I think the largest problem is the fact that adcs can attack towers with little retaliation, while melees get retaliated on from range and die a lot easier.

That's why range is a problem in this game, it gives little counter except larger range, a gapcloser, faster movement (like udyr fast), or crowd control.

I personally don't think that melee champions should be balanced around NOT having ranged abilities, and in fact range and mobility should have drawbacks that melee doesn't have. Unfortunately riot decided that they prefer to buff the melee champions in their own ways such as ludicrous damage or a rediculous gap closer, so we're stuck with what we have. And since ranged sustained damage is just so broken because of how free it is and how it requires resources to stop, ADCs will always be a required role unlike every single other role.

If I have some inconsistencies or some shit, it's cuz I'm literally lying in bed at 3:00 am trying to sleep. So sorry 'bout that.

i've said the same fucking shit over and over and nobody even thinks about it. range has no drawbacks. while melee suffer for being melee.

TheChaoticSwedeAug 6, 201612 votes

As an ADC main since Season 3 I would like to remind you that what you're saying is, respectfully, bullshit.

Sejuani, Malphite, Gragas, Sion (for like a single patch), Vi and Shyvana were in almost every single game they weren't banned in because of how easily and braindead stupid they were.

Nothing will ever erase the horrors of seeing a Shyvana/Sejuani flash ult into my frontline and proceed to literally destroy anything that was near them. Nothing will ever make me forget the tyranny that was Jungle, Tank Gragas in Season 5, where if you were to so much as sneeze in the wrong direction without having 3 defense items you were dead. Sion for a patch or two would literally just ult straight into turrets, face tank it along with your team, and kill at least three people before he finally died. Vi and Malphite were literally everything that would make an ADC cry. They had huge armor and health, a massive amount of burst for no reason, and you couldn't fucking get them off of you because they always had something to stick to you.

I know i'm a very small minority but honestly, i'd rather be blown the fuck up by a carry who can also get blown the fuck up rather than a tank Malphite just ulting me and using Q to kill secure me and then watching him walk away from a 4v1 while spamming laugh.

Supreme Senpai69Aug 5, 20169 votes

ADC isn't the most stressful role. You have someone during the laning phase to hold your hand and protect you, and your role in teamfights is to right click the closest thing

PhDs NutsAug 5, 201613 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z18KmNtM,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-08-05T15:03:31.348+0000)

ADC isn't the most stressful role. You have someone during the laning phase to hold your hand and protect you, and your role in teamfights is to right click the closest thing

Yup. Obviously every support is a perfect player and teammate, and every teamfight can be survived just by right clicking.

Supreme Senpai69Aug 5, 20168 votes

I never said any of that, you're exaggerating too much. I also never said that it wasn't stressful. But to say it's the most stressful role is sort of... silly.

Hyrum GraffAug 5, 20168 votes

In the cinderhulk meta, assassin is probably the most stressful role. If you do your job, you single-handedly win your team the game since your tanks are now invincible, but it's really damn hard to do your job because of all the people peeling for the enemy adc.

DREADN0UGHTAug 5, 20165 votes

Season 5 was the best season.

Hyrum GraffAug 5, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Season 5 was the best season.

Personally agreed. I do like some of the changes they've made this season, and given the right push, I think S6 could actually have a higher high than S5 did. But I suspect there's just not enough time for that, so here's to hoping for S7.

DREADN0UGHTAug 5, 20163 votes

Season 5 was a near perfect balance of power in the mid-season, with Ap champs being balanced, Tanks in the jungle were viable and Adc damage was not off the roof.

Season 6 had the worst start I've seen since I've started playing in S3.

I doubt they can completly fix it all in time, but I am seeing a sort of balance returning.

I'm hoping for Season 7 to be the one. Afterall, E-Sports is still very young, and it can only evolve at this point.

Jaygo41Aug 6, 20162 votes

oh yeah? was it? was seeing a vayne EVERY game fun? was runeglaive ezreal fun? was runeglaive nidalee fun? was the juggernaut update fun? there was literally SO much complaining last season about stuff that shouldn't have been a problem in the first place... at the very least, season 6 complaining is about the mage update and yasuo, with some guinsoos thrown in there. sated devourer was deleted from the game this season

KinetikaAug 5, 20164 votes

If you think ADC is the most stressful role, you don't jungle.

Hyrum GraffAug 6, 20162 votes

Hold on a sec. Gonna address this one from another account.

Ashe JungleAug 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

If you think ADC is the most stressful role, you don't jungle.

I suck at jungling, which is why I do my jungling on this account.

That is to say, u wot m8?

KinetikaAug 6, 20162 votes

Shame...I love the Ender's Game reference on your main account.

Anyhow, jungling - the one role in which you're pretty much guaranteed to get flamed once per game, even if you're doing well.

MogarlAug 6, 20162 votes

I'd be fine with marksman as they are, if life-steal was removed from the game.

Hyrum GraffAug 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'd be fine with marksman as they are, if life-steal was removed from the game.

Life steal is what prevents league of bruisers.

MogarlAug 6, 20161 votes

I'm curious, how so?

The only reason I can think is that lifesteal ensures that AA based ad carries can't be killed unless you burst them into oblivion in under a second. Making it so they don't have life steal means someone that built tankier and could get to them could actually kill them, or if they decided to duel a caster in a suicidal fashion they would actually have the same price for fighting as any caster would in the same situation.

If a caster fights you, not assassinate or burst from a bush, but actually fights you and they take a high amount of damage and only have 1-200 health left then they have to back or continue pushing with extremely low health. If a auto-attacker with life steal is in that same situation they can push and unless an enemy was already on their way they may be full health by the time someone get's there.

I really don't understand why riot decided spell vamp was something bad for the game but doesn't think that life steal posses the same problem.

Hyrum GraffAug 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm curious, how so?

The only reason I can think is that lifesteal ensures that AA based ad carries can't be killed unless you burst them into oblivion in under a second. Making it so they don't have life steal means someone that built tankier and could get to them could actually kill them, or if they decided to duel a caster in a suicidal fashion they would actually have the same price for fighting as any caster would in the same situation.

If a caster fights you, not assassinate or burst from a bush, but actually fights you and they take a high amount of damage and only have 1-200 health left then they have to back or continue pushing with extremely low health. If a auto-attacker with life steal is in that same situation they can push and unless an enemy was already on their way they may be full health by the time someone get's there.

I really don't understand why riot decided spell vamp was something bad for the game but doesn't think that life steal posses the same problem.

I'm rather tired right now so apologies if I'm not clear and feel free to ask for clarification.

Juggernaut items are mostly hp. Resists and hp make you tankier; resists lower lifesteal too. Take away lifesteal and juggernaut items are now more effective on divers. Doubly effective because you can take an adc out of the fight without killing them. Why pick squishy Fizz, Zed, Akali, when you can just pick Vi or Irelia and 100-20 the enemy adc while being pretty tanky from juggernaut items?
Mages have some tankiness on their items, and more utility to avoid dmg. Adcs (should) need to build full damage. If they're low going into a teamfight they can't safely deal their dps. Related to #1 b/c a 20% adc can't contribute to a fight; a 20% mage can.

MogarlAug 7, 20161 votes

Fair points. Sorry if I seemed at all an ass with my comments, I wasn't really expecting anyone to actually reply to my first post.

TBH I don't really have much for problems with lifesteal, except in some extreme situations. (Vayne healing off a 1000+ damage crit immediately after being hit by a spell is bullshit :/) I just kind of thought of the sentence and decided "oh yeah I'll type that, it'll probably be buried in the bottom of the thread never to be seen again."

I mean I do have problems with marksman, but they're more related to Riot trying to get them out into more lanes, and being successful in nothing but creating problems. A marksman should never have the full marksman suite of bonuses if they're able to exist in a solo lane.