People want solo lane/Jungle Leona, but

PhearBunny··4 votes·2,927 views

Heres why it wont work without significant buffs. She has no shield/sustain to keep her in lane vs other sustain/shield champs. She has no poke, or realistic way to punish for CSing. She has low burst damage. She cannot farm from behind. She can not build into MR effectively.(In this mage heavy meta).

If Leona is to be a solo laner, or jungler, a few things need to be addressed. Her lack of clear. her lack of longevity. her passive needs to be changed to not make her a problem in the bottom lane with buffs to the rest of her kit. her damage needs to be buffed back to Season7. so...

Remove Sunlight-Replace with Sunfire- Essentially turn her passive into a level scaling sunfire cape that activates during her W and her W's residual effect, and remains until Eclipse fully dissipates. Q- from 10/35/60/85/110 to 35/65/95/125/155. Additionally attach a barrier effect to it(Leona gains a barrier for 5% of her current health at all ranks). Increase the CD by 1second across all ranks. W- Leave it exactly the same. No CD reactivation/deactivation on the Sunfire effect. E- Add a barrier onto it(If it connects) barrier scaled based on amount of enemies within a certain radius and based on health(Think Jarvans W). R- Keep it the same, but Instead of adding damage onto her autoattacks/applying sunlight give her a temporary buff that 2x/2.5x/3x's the duration of Eclipses residual effect

She now has wave clear through sunfire on her W/Passive. She now has lane longevity through access to barriers, and would take sustain runes.(Like Poppy) She isn't dependent on teammates to function. Her bot lane effectiveness wouldn't really change. Offensively shed be the same since she lost Sunlight. Defensively shed be stronger, and probably closer to on par with Alistar.

24 Comments

Noor Sakata3 votes

" mage heavy meta " lol ok

PhearBunny1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z0sqJqEh,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-12-02T15:16:22.730+0000)

" mage heavy meta " lol ok

I mean, assuming Irelia and Aatrox are banned

MrFawknSunshine2 votes

what do you mean she cant build MR effectively?

PhearBunny1 votes

{quoted}

what do you mean she cant build MR effectively?

The only MR items that she really builds into are Zekes and Solari shield thing. Neither of which help her as a standalone champion. Her most viable top lane/jungle MR item is Abyssal Mask and that is all. I feel like increasing eclipses duration via her R would bandaid some of that for her.

MrFawknSunshine5 votes

she is a tank she can build any MR item she really wants.

item 3001 item 3194 item 3193 item 3190 item 3065 item 3512

L0ve Is Blue2 votes

I feel like Leonna is a perfectly designed Tank support. This makes it very hard to play her anywhere else, but god is she good at what she does!

3 stuns, Extreme tankiness with W, passive that makes her stronger with an aly... She has everything an offensive tank support could dream of. Sure it makes her pretty much unusable in any other roles, but I prefer a champion that can fill his intended purpose to perfection rather than a champion who struggles to find a place to shine.

BestPudgeNA1 votes

Leona wouldn't really need massive buffs to be a jungler, i've messed around with her in the JG and if they made it so she could E to large monsters and gave her some sort of PVE buff that would slightly increase her clear speed she could actually be a jungler.

Illabethe1 votes

{quoted}

Leona wouldn't really need massive buffs to be a jungler, i've messed around with her in the JG and if they made it so she could E to large monsters and gave her some sort of PVE buff that would slightly increase her clear speed she could actually be a jungler.

And her clear speed's not that bad if you have item 1039 item 3076 item 3751 item 3057 , which all can build into Viable Leona items.

Woodakoodashooda1 votes

Leona does NOT need to be changed into a multitool crowd pleaser.

Players just need to NOT troll pick.

PhearBunny1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z0sqJqEh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-02T14:42:00.129+0000)

Leona does NOT need to be changed into a multitool crowd pleaser.

Players just need to NOT troll pick.

Most Leona mains have wanted her to be moved out of the bottom lane due to her kit playing like a bruiser/fighter but tuned to that of a pure tank vanguard simply for the sake of her staying in the botlane.

Woodakoodashooda1 votes

{quoted}

Most Leona mains have wanted her to be moved out of the bottom lane due to her kit playing like a bruiser/fighter but tuned to that of a pure tank vanguard simply for the sake of her staying in the botlane.

And it proved very toxic when Leona was able to hit with the force of any given bruiser with hard CC on such short cooldowns. If she were ever tuned to do anything but what she does now, she would become a god tier tank and land on everyone's ban list.

Illabethe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z0sqJqEh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-02T14:42:00.129+0000)

Leona does NOT need to be changed into a multitool crowd pleaser.

Players just need to NOT troll pick.

Jungle Leona really isn't a troll pick. It's extremely viable, as long as you build to tackle the mobility issue.

PhearBunny1 votes

{quoted}

Jungle Leona really isn't a troll pick. It's extremely viable, as long as you build to tackle the mobility issue.

Extremely viable is a stretch. Its viable. But her clear is slow even with the mentioned items. Building her into a bruiser is ridiculously expensive so, you NEED kills inorder to go this route as your capacity to farm to a Trinity+Titanic is really poor. Which leaves you with the more cost effective route of, Cinderhulk+Thornmail+Gauntlet. Which, yes you can clear with this build, but its abysmally slow, and you will unavoidably get far behind in farm. Also, doesn't really leave her any room for MR, and by the time you complete these 3 items, the game is pretty much decided. And your next item is going to be Deadmans plate anyways to address the mobility problems that not even Mobis isnt enough to deal with. She cant really duel anyone that counterjungles her, she used to be a strong jungle duelist in Season7 when her Q didn't do 10damage, but alas, it does 10 damage now, and everything shits on her.

Illabethe1 votes

{quoted}

Extremely viable is a stretch. Its viable. But her clear is slow even with the mentioned items. Building her into a bruiser is ridiculously expensive so, you NEED kills inorder to go this route as your capacity to farm to a Trinity+Titanic is really poor. Which leaves you with the more cost effective route of, Cinderhulk+Thornmail+Gauntlet. Which, yes you can clear with this build, but its abysmally slow, and you will unavoidably get far behind in farm. Also, doesn't really leave her any room for MR, and by the time you complete these 3 items, the game is pretty much decided. And your next item is going to be Deadmans plate anyways to address the mobility problems that not even Mobis isnt enough to deal with. She cant really duel anyone that counterjungles her, she used to be a strong jungle duelist in Season7 when her Q didn't do 10damage, but alas, it does 10 damage now, and everything shits on her.

I would post some games but you'd just counter with "It's silver games" :)

I just destroyed a fed Irelia.

And you don't need to kill a counterjungler. You need to stun and run. 99% of the time, even in lane, the difference between a good and bad Leona is knowing when to back up. If you do it correctly in the jungle, you can escape with more than 25% hp from halfway across the map. If they are more mobile than you, you can even use their mobility to leapfrog back to the front of the pack.

And I think anyone who builds a Titanic on Leona doesn't really know how to play her. She's a Sheen based champ.

Last game: item 1413 item 3102 item 3111 item 3078 item 3001 and was building a item 3157 , but easily could have gone item 3053

-Healed more than Pyke by over 6k. -Did third most damage between both teams. -Did 5th most champion damage between both teams. (27.8k damage) -Did 25k Objective damage. -Tanked and mitigated the most damage between both teams. -187 CS (and this was a push/combat active game)

Death by Glamour1 votes

she and I believe blitz were intended to be solo laners, its just that the meta pulled her down to bot lane to be an engage support

one thing going for her solo laning is her HP5 is among the best in the game

MorgManBasher1 votes

Let her proc her own passive and she can solo lane, at least to some degree.

Also if people want jungle leona they could honestly just buff her w damage on jungle monsters by like 200% or something so she clears faster/healthier.

PhearBunny1 votes

Cherry picking games where you win doesn't mean anything. Jungle Leona is not reliably good. Its not even good 40% of the time. It CAN be good, and CAN work, but not reliably. Everything needs to be in your favor, including luck.

I have more offmeta Leona games played than anyone. I know she can jungle, I mained it in season7 to Plat1 with a substantially high winrate that withered down a little when they "Buffed" her in the bot lane, while simutaineously shitting on her jungle.

Weve seen Soraka tops do well. That doesn't make it good.

I looked at your game. You forgot to mention all of your lanes won, and carried you. And no, you cant 1v1 Irelia as Leona under any circumstance, and no Irelia was not fed. Just stop lol. Because you got carried as Leona, doesn't mean Leona jungle is good. You could have played jungle Janna and won that game, because your presence wasn't required. period.

OneMustFall1 votes

{quoted}

Cherry picking games where you win doesn't mean anything. Jungle Leona is not reliably good. Its not even good 40% of the time. It CAN be good, and CAN work, but not reliably. Everything needs to be in your favor, including luck.

I have more offmeta Leona games played than anyone. I know she can jungle, I mained it in season7 to Plat1 with a substantially high winrate that withered down a little when they "Buffed" her in the bot lane, while simutaineously shitting on her jungle.

Weve seen Soraka tops do well. That doesn't make it good.

I looked at your game. You forgot to mention all of your lanes won, and carried you. And no, you cant 1v1 Irelia as Leona under any circumstance, and no Irelia was not fed. Just stop lol. Because you got carried as Leona, doesn't mean Leona jungle is good. You could have played jungle Janna and won that game, because your presence wasn't required. period.

So many fallacies with your post. You mained it to Plat 1 with a substantially high win rate then you turn around and say someone who won a game as Leona Jungle got carried and it isn't viable. Could you be any more pretentious?

Illabethe1 votes

{quoted}

Cherry picking games where you win doesn't mean anything. Jungle Leona is not reliably good. Its not even good 40% of the time. It CAN be good, and CAN work, but not reliably. Everything needs to be in your favor, including luck.

I have more offmeta Leona games played than anyone. I know she can jungle, I mained it in season7 to Plat1 with a substantially high winrate that withered down a little when they "Buffed" her in the bot lane, while simutaineously shitting on her jungle.

Weve seen Soraka tops do well. That doesn't make it good.

I looked at your game. You forgot to mention all of your lanes won, and carried you. And no, you cant 1v1 Irelia as Leona under any circumstance, and no Irelia was not fed. Just stop lol. Because you got carried as Leona, doesn't mean Leona jungle is good. You could have played jungle Janna and won that game, because your presence wasn't required. period.

That argument is more appropriate for Support Leona than Jungle Leona though. There's a major reason Leona isn't seen in bot lane much right now: She gets destroyed by appropriate counterpicks, and doesn't have any real options around it.

At least in jungle, you have a steady income, level escalation, and can pick your battles.

If you are Leona into something like a Blitz or Thresh both, you're probably going to lose, because Leona support primarily is used vs Squishies, and furthermore, only used in Duo play where the adc is aware of you and communicating with you.

Mages also verily destroy Leona so hard she struggles to activate Relic shield enough to stay relevant.

If Jungle Leona "Can" be good, Support Leona is worse than that.

P.S. I didn't forget anything. In reality your read of the game was horrible:

-Whenever my Team fought without me, they all died, usually to a single Irelia R, in which they voluntarily ran right through the knives, disabling themselves. That's why that game lasted 42 minutes.

-In Reality, I started the game friggin 4/1, the fourth being a greedy trade shutdown of Irelia.

-Camille was purely feeding Irelia...... to the point where every single death she would "Wtf." I actually watched her ult Irelia the SECOND she was at 1% HP and about to die.

-Most of Lux's kills were my setup. We were working well together, as was MF. Camille and Pyke were off either feeding or attempting to split push the entire game. I got both of them started.

-Irelia wasn't fed? She literally was fed a kill every 2 minutes in lane and she and Jax got the first turret. Highest CS in the game, highest gold on their team by friggin 4+k. Not fed? lol. It was my stuns that gave her those 11 deaths.

PhearBunny1 votes

Also you build titanic on her, because Tiamats is the only way to address her ungodly slow clear, and then you build it into Titanic Hydra for the health obviously, and for the pseudo attack speed cap with AA>Q>AA>Titanic active>AA>Q. *you don't complete titanic hydra first. Tiamats>Sheen>boots>Gauntlet/Trinity>Titanic Hydra>Steraks. with a red or blue smite item thrown in somewhere that financially makes sense. You built a trinity force with an AP build, that speaks for itself.

Also stunning and running doest work. Most junglers are hypermobile. You can stun and run, but your 1second stun isn't going to do anything but save you for an extra second, before they reclose the distance and kill you. Either you have flash up, or youre a free kill to a experienced jungler that's properly following your route.

PhearBunny1 votes

Leona is the most easily counterpicked support in the game, yes. But she is still reliably better in that role than in the Jungle Slot...

And @OneMustFall, The Jungle Leona I played to Plat1 was in Season7, not Season9. Theres a difference. Leona had more damage and longer Q CD. 15AD rune page on a AA reset Q synergized insanely well with Fervor/Tlords.

In season7 she could literally blow people up just with rune page+masteries. In season9 her Q does 10 damage, she has less free AD from runes, and etc etc. it just doesn't work to the capacity that it used to- and even then it was offmeta for a reason. it still wasn't optimal, now it really REALLY isn't optimal.

WoonStruck1 votes

Leona is pretty much jax, but without the attack speed as far as early clears go. All she needs is an attack speed buff (her AS and animation are horrible anyway) or a targeted jungle buff to her q w or e, such as her passive proccing on them.

She still has the only double auto reset left in the game.

Revive Aatrox1 votes

To be a good solo laner /jungler she just need her passive to be self efficient. Meaning another ally can bemnefit, but you can do it solo too. Wityh shojin and that change she's gnarly

Titanium701 votes

Leona has absolutely everything necessary for a sololane with the exception of 2 things.

  1. Mana. Her costs are absurd especially when facing manaless opponents
  2. Waveclear. You can beat most other tops with leona, but rarely does it matter since you cant even get the wave to the turret until they're back.

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