Yes there was plenty you could have done.

Mira Arya Enthe·Sep 6, 2016·4 votes·536 views

Tired of seeing people lose lane, going 1/8/1. And then saying things like "Their jungler camped me, there was nothing I could have done." Yes, you could have warded... played safe... conserved your summoners... plenty of things.

This applies to any use of it. There is ALWAYS something you could have done, in every situation. "My lane enemy counters me, there was nothing I could have done." Teleport ganks, passive farming, roaming, help your jungler. etc.

By claiming you 'couldn't have done anything' you are denying yourself any chance at constructive criticism and self learning. Because instead of looking at what you did wrong, and improving, you are in denial about your mistakes.

17 Comments

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 6, 20163 votes

If you are top and the jungler camps you then you should ward from jungle and make sure the whole team can confirm when the jungler arrives and leaves your lane.

If you can do this at least you save the support a ton of time and gold and you help the other lanes tremendously as well as give your jungler time to invade.

If you are being camped don't even bother getting offense as toplane. Not like you need much damage in that lane anyways unless your pick sucks.

:3 when top gets camped you should laugh

Mid is a bit more complicated but mid can roam and should have a contingency plan for everything anyways. If you picked a lane with 8 entrances and weren't prepared to get camped and ganked repeatedly then you are a failure.

DukuesSep 6, 20162 votes

As a jungler I generally ignore top. I don't want to completely ignore it but just seems easier to focus mid and bot a lot more of the time. Hopefully I am thinking of this correctly. Generally it feels like my lane wins top hard and doesn't really need my help or they losing so hard I can't do much except cover turret while they back. Not always the case, but just seems easier and wiser to prioritize mid and bot.

Mira Arya EntheSep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you are top and the jungler camps you then you should ward from jungle and make sure the whole team can confirm when the jungler arrives and leaves your lane.

If you can do this at least you save the support a ton of time and gold and you help the other lanes tremendously as well as give your jungler time to invade.

If you are being camped don't even bother getting offense as toplane. Not like you need much damage in that lane anyways unless your pick sucks.

:3 when top gets camped you should laugh

Mid is a bit more complicated but mid can roam and should have a contingency plan for everything anyways. If you picked a lane with 8 entrances and weren't prepared to get camped and ganked repeatedly then you are a failure.

Exactly. If I am getting camped by Voli and countered by Yasuo in top lane. I slow farm, build cheap defensive items. And tell my team every time the enemy jungler is top. I ward up well, play carefully and tell my jungler NOT to gank my lane and focus elsewhere.

KarunamonSep 6, 20162 votes

Only if your team composition is any good. If for some reason your team has rolled all ADC.. well.. your game is about 90% certain to be lost before you even spawn. One For All made this painfully obvious. I remember a game of all Anivias vs all Yasuos. Give you two guesses which side won that one, and the first doesn't count.

Hard counters do exist, which is why draft/ban is such a huge deal. As champions are picked, the rest of the team may need to change their preferred lane selection or champion to compensate.

Chogath vs MasterYi for instance.

Or Karthus vs Kassadin

Or Sona / Nami vs literally anyone with no assistance.

TequilaZombieSep 6, 20162 votes

Isn't Cho vs Yi a skill match up? Yi can dodge most of Cho's dmg with his Q, likewise, Cho can just save his damaging abilities for after Yi uses his Q.

KarunamonSep 6, 20162 votes

The problem is that both are melee champions, and Cho has better CC. Erupt will ruin a melee champ's day, since any time they want to harass, Cho's just an Erupt + run away from disengaging. Any time Yi wants to start farming, erupt+harass. And that's before he starts stacking Feast or using Feral Scream.

Mira Arya EntheSep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Only if your team composition is any good. If for some reason your team has rolled all ADC.. well.. your game is about 90% certain to be lost before you even spawn. One For All made this painfully obvious. I remember a game of all Anivias vs all Yasuos. Give you two guesses which side won that one, and the first doesn't count.

Hard counters do exist, which is why draft/ban is such a huge deal. As champions are picked, the rest of the team may need to change their preferred lane selection or champion to compensate.

vs for instance.

Or vs

Or / vs literally anyone with no assistance.

No. If you are against a hard counter you can safe farm, roam, help your jungler, teleport gank to get an advantage. Or tower hug until mid game. Ask politely for a gank.

KarunamonSep 6, 20161 votes

There is no "safe farm" with a true hard counter. Yasuo is great at this, he can dash in, smack you, and dash back out before the tower's even had a chance to fire a shot at him.

If you're not getting farm, how are going to to "help" your Jungler in a way that doesn't involve stealing their farm or dying to the other jungler?

If you're not getting farm, how are you going to gank? With what stats? Teleport ganking is a lot less viable ever since the spell got nerfed anyways.

The problem with being HC'd is that you are denied the ability to get gold and wind up incredibly weak, which means you wind up as bait for the other laner once they are all fed. And then you start dying, wind up vulnerable to tower dives, and before you know it, you end the game 0/11/1.

I look at it like this - take two challenger-tier players of equivalent skill who are at the top of their game on whatever champion.. there are still champion characteristics that means one or the other of those champions (using the examples above) will win every fight.

Mira Arya EntheSep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There is no "safe farm" with a true hard counter. Yasuo is great at this, he can dash in, smack you, and dash back out before the tower's even had a chance to fire a shot at him.

If you're not getting farm, how are going to to "help" your Jungler in a way that doesn't involve stealing their farm or dying to the other jungler?

If you're not getting farm, how are you going to gank? With what stats?

The problem with being HC'd is that you are denied the ability to get gold and wind up incredibly weak, which means you wind up as bait for the other laner once they are all fed. And then you start dying, wind up vulnerable to tower dives, and before you know it, you end the game 0/11/1.

I'm sorry you cannot find anyway to deal with a 'hard' counter. I have never had a lane where I couldn't at least safe farm and focus on late game while waiting for help. Not since S2 when Yorick was still good. Even then could still gank other lanes. 2v1 is 2v1 even if you don't have a ton of gold.

S0kaXSep 6, 20162 votes

This post should be a guide

Handy Sandy Sep 6, 20161 votes

Then what do you do if the enemy jungler and laner tower dive you and make you go 1/8/1? Just give up on your lane and don't go back after your 2nd/3rd death?

Mira Arya EntheSep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Then what do you do if the enemy jungler and laner tower dive you and make you go 1/8/1? Just give up on your lane and don't go back after your 2nd/3rd death?

You shouldn't have gotten tower dove. Like Gbay99 said "Even getting tower dove can be considered overextending." If you are low HP and at a disadvantage, and they appear to be ready for a dive or are playing aggressive. Play passive and prepare for an emergency retreat.

KarunamonSep 7, 20161 votes

What does that even mean? If you're weak enough that you're vulnerable to a tower dive, your advice means you literally cannot farm anymore. Minions don't go past towers, so...?

Jungle is a bad idea, because one encounter with the enemy jungler means you're toast.

So.. what do? The only option you appear to have given me is to AFK at fountain.

Athenes LuluSep 6, 20161 votes

Or as the one who's not getting camped, do something so you can punish their team for camping ONE lane instead of bitching and whining that they're "not playing safe".

Mira Arya EntheSep 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yviz7tOU,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-09-06T20:53:32.051+0000)

Or as the one who's not getting camped, do something so you can punish their team for camping ONE lane instead of bitching and whining that they're "not playing safe".

Whether the rest of the team pushes the advantage or not, they still have to play safe and not feed 8 kills. Sorry, but even getting tower dove can be prevented with proper play. Having 8 deaths in a high action game by late game is fine. But being 1/8/1 in a 25 minute match is just straight up feeding, even if not intentionally.

Even if mid isn't getting camped, for example, it doesn't mean they can magically beat their enemy laner to press the advantage either. Every lane is 95% responsible for their own deaths.

Athenes LuluSep 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yviz7tOU,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-09-06T21:00:02.382+0000)

Whether the rest of the team pushes the advantage or not, they still have to play safe and not feed 8 kills. Sorry, but even getting tower dove can be prevented with proper play. Having 8 deaths in a high action game by late game is fine. But being 1/8/1 in a 25 minute match is just straight up feeding, even if not intentionally.

Even if mid isn't getting camped, for example, it doesn't mean they can magically beat their enemy laner to press the advantage either. Every lane is 95% responsible for their own deaths.

Still missing the point.

Having lots of deaths or not, the behind teammates are gonna be trashed regardless, so you should instead focus on people who are ahead and use that as YOUR advantage.

Mira Arya EntheSep 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yviz7tOU,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-09-06T21:08:08.685+0000)

Still missing the point.

Having lots of deaths or not, the behind teammates are gonna be trashed regardless, so you should instead focus on people who are ahead and use that as YOUR advantage.

Obviously. As a jungler I know this best.

The comment is one people who are feeding and claiming "There is nothing I could do about it" because they were (insert reason here). There is always something you can do to not feed, there is always a way to help your team. And denying that, makes you thick headed and leaves no room for improvement. As you are basically saying "I am already playing my best" by saying there was nothing you could do.