When you nerfed Veigar. You said it's not fun to play against.
I hate you....I hate you so much it hurts.
I played a few games with him and did, okay some bad some okay. But this last game showed me how bad he really is. Could have killed a Katarina that tower dove me twice but no stupid ass stun delay kills me. Yet she can 100-0 me, you know that thing you said you don't endorse. I haven't seen this much hypocrisy since EA.
mtAkFzLsUS2 votesi wonder who disliked this. lol
AHeroNamedHawke2 votesThat isn't what they said
Veigar was changed because coming within 1000 range of him meant getting instantly hard CC'd and killed with 2 point and click nukes
Last time I checked none of those champions have an AoE 2.5 second stun, with Annie's being 1.75 at best and shorter range
Serenity Now2 votesSeveral of them don't need a stun. They just need an immobile squishy with no CC to sidle up to for a free kill.
And Riot did totally screw the pooch on Veigar's "remake". I hesitate to call it that because of how obviously little thought went into it.
In the patch video, they claimed they wanted to preserve his nuke play style, but the only way it works is if a teammate lands a hard CC because Veigar alone isn't going to do it.
So they've erased his laning strength, but preserved his team fight strength - if the conditions are right. Overall, he's much weaker and there are many better picks for mid lane.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesOkay, Annie has a similar ability to veigar. Nobody else on that list has a long duration stun during which they can do upwards of 3k damage to you.
He was in a class of his own.
Shaded Striker1 votesFirst time in a while I've seen someone mention malzahar to complain.
ApexInTheCircle1 votes[{quoted}](name=Shaded Striker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ytAryWEV,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-03-03T03:07:10.432+0000)
First time in a while I've seen someone mention malzahar to complain.
Using him as an example of being able to 100-0 someone.
67chrome1 votesYou said you don't like the thought of 100-0 somebody
I think it's more "Riot doesn't want a champion to always 100%-->0% things" over "they don't want a champion to 100%-->0% someone".
If you look at the QWER rotations of assassins, there bases only tend to allow them to take out ~50% of their own base HP at any given level. It's around ~40 base QWER damage per level vs. ~80 HP per level, for ~1000 QWER damage @18 and ~2000 HP.
You also need ~450 AP to double the QWER burst of pretty much every AP, as AP scaling usually stays to a consistent ratio compared to the base values.
Anyways - with pretty much every QWER bursty champion, you have to exploit 1 of 3 things to actually 100%-->0% someone:
So - yeah, they don't allow any champion to 100%--0% someone just as a shtick. It's an option you can aim for, but your opponents always have a way around it.
The main thing Riot doesn't want is just 100%-->0%ing someone with no way of preventing that from happening (outside of never going near that guy ever).
Veigar is (was) kind of problematic in this regard for 2 reasons:
Pretty much every mage actually requires a skillshot that's telegraphed and fairly slow-traveling to start their QWER rotation, and most assassins don't have any CC at all (which usually opens the possibility to use all your abilities, summoners, and item actives to deal with that melee champion that ran at you). And when you do come into point-click CC zones: having ~600 range is generally a major limitation of point-click stuff, you pretty much never get 1000+ range with point-click, making Event Horizon extremely powerful.
While Riot's reasoning is kind of derp at first glance and doesn't go into this much, Veigar's identity is very much tied to his QR burst and infinite-scaling, not so much Event Horizon. As both are a potential problem in the 100-0 someone with no (basic) counters working against that, along with Event Horizon quite possibly being the single strongest QWE CC skill in the game and one of the best QWE skills in the game in general, it's a clear target for any nerfs to Veigar for any potential problem he brings.
All that said - it's kind of sad to see a champion like Veigar nerffed, but it's really important to keep in mind being OP and lacking counter-play are 2 very different things.
Zed is up at the top because all his skills are extremely telegraphed, you can dodge pretty much his entire combo, his ult gives a clear warning to activate Zhonya's / QSS / Exhaust, and he's actually playable despite those weaknesses.
Talon on the other hand got a brutal nerf a few months ago because he could leap directly behind a target from 700 range instantly with no warning or chance to catch him in traps or skillshots at all, silence his target (disabling all their abilities, summoners, and item actives) and then dissapearing into a flurry of blades rending him immune to all point-click mechanics (auto-attacks).
Outside of a few months after his release when AD caster itemization was awful, Zed's pretty much always been a solid pick and Talon hasn't because Riot felt the difference in reaction time and counter-measures between the 2 is a very significant advantage in Talon's favor worth it's weight in more tangible stats, which has unfortunately made Talon an unreliable pick because he's balanced more in an "he might obliterate them or might fall short" zone of balance, where Zed's abilities place a greater emphasis on skill over chance, making him more reliable (and thus better) in pro play.
TomA3X1 votesNone of the above champions have a 2.5 second stun for a Basic ability. With veigar, if you came into his stun range, you were dead. There was a certain point in the game, after which you couldn't go on lane against him, because R would just kill you. That's not healthy, no other champion has that ability.
ApexInTheCircle1 votesNone of the above champions have a 2.5 second stun for a Basic ability. With veigar, if you came into his stun range, you were dead. There was a certain point in the game, after which you couldn't go on lane against him, because R would just kill you. That's not healthy, no other champion has that ability.
If you let Veigar get to that point you deserve to lose against him. It's the same argument people use against Nasus and it's a valid one at that. If you starve them of farm and zone them they're pretty much done.
Nasus gets 600 farm with his Q and he will 2 shot you while being an unstoppable wall of armor health and mr, who has a huge slow on a relatively short CD. Veigar gets 200 farm on his Q and he will one shot you while being a moving piece of glass that has no more escape after he has blown his Stun which is on a much higher CD than Nasus wither and being nowhere near as tanky.
By the way you're making this sound you're making Veigar out to be some kind of new thing that has just surfaced. Reality check, he has been doing this for 5 years and no one has complained once about it. No one complains about Nasus either, but if they came out and removed his wither saying it was "Unhealthy" you would have a bunch of people coming out of the woodwork saying it was unhealthy to the game and needed to be nerfed. And Veigar's stun wasn't a guaranteed stun, people who are good made it a guaranteed stun AKA you got outplayed.