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Vayne's pick rate to win rate is nausea inducing.

ApexInTheCircle··100 votes·21,481 views

27.81% pick rate with a 51% winrate makes me want to vomit when it comes to Vayne. This is supposedly a high skill cap champ vs Yasuo who (Alot of us love to hate on, myself included) Who has a 22% pick rate and is sitting below 50% as he should be, since he is also a high skill cap champ.

Something just isn't adding up here and it's driving me absolutely nuts. I can't tell if it's the way she can be Stealthed for an extremely long period of time with her ult, making it extremely difficult to lock her down (ty riot for alot of point and click cc) or if it's guinsoos and having her do 12% of my health as true damage every 2nd shot. Either way seeing her in any game, be it on my team or the enemies makes me fucking disgusted.

And don't say ban her because if you do a Kai'sa will come and take her place, and that bitch is just as bad. Like comparing 2 types of cancer, doesn't matter which one you ignore the other is still cancer.

86 Comments

SexualNuts41 votes

The buff was completely stupid and over the top.

SURE give her lower CD on Q when she ults... but why start at 50%? That's massive. Should have gone for 20% or maybe 25% and see where it leaves her.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

The buff was completely stupid and over the top.

SURE give her lower CD on Q when she ults... but why start at 50%? That's massive. Should have gone for 20% or maybe 25% and see where it leaves her.

A member of the balance team has already been to r/VayneMains and told us what they will do if it's needed.

They will make it scale with R rank most likely.

20 / 30 / 50% at 6 / 11 / 16

https://i.gyazo.com/9a9050357d5243443e7030bd721a06e5.png

Saevum1 votes

Is time-bombing Vayne an actual nerf or they want to call it a late power curve?

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

Is time-bombing Vayne an actual nerf or they want to call it a late power curve?

Either way you look at it.

"Won't nerf her below where she was before the buff."

LeftyRaydy1 votes

The thing was this was on the PBE and already being abused as every Sylas Video also had Vayne in it because of these buffs. They knew it was broken but released it anyway. Probably because SKIN

Worst Morde NA1 votes

{quoted}

The buff was completely stupid and over the top.

SURE give her lower CD on Q when she ults... but why start at 50%? That's massive. Should have gone for 20% or maybe 25% and see where it leaves her.

They did the same for Nasus and his Q, and a good Nasus these days is bloody broken. 1 second CD on a stacked Q, wtf

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

{quoted}

They did the same for Nasus and his Q, and a good Nasus these days is bloody broken. 1 second CD on a stacked Q, wtf

Nasus can't hit anyone important without burning flash.

Thefrostyviking24 votes

Kai sa is nowhere near as disgusting to play against as Vayne is.

Even if vayne is outright removed from the game right now i am honestly not even sure Kai sa would see her banrate rise more than 5%, sitting at like 4-5% now.

Vayne has like 20-25% at this time.

Sugar Momma22 votes

Vayne honestly isn’t a high skillcap champion.

GelsominoKiller19 votes

I will tell you more and add insult to injury:

This is also a meta where Vayne can't even make full use of the brokenness of her latest buff:

  • she still gets trashed hard in botlane, as aggressive supports and earlygame marksmen run rampant. Lucian is probably one of the hardest matchups for vayne and he's super strong right now.

  • the ability to restealth so quickly means very little when damage is so high you die with one and half mage spell. If you catch vayne once, she's dead and she can't make any use of another tumble. When and if damge ever goes down, the vayne balance problem is going to explode in a memorable shitstorm. She will be nigh unkillable if she is given the time to kite.

TL;DR: Vayne is probably even stronger than she may appear, because she's held in check by an extremely unfavorable metagame.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

I will tell you more and add insult to injury:

This is also a meta where Vayne can't even make full use of the brokenness of her latest buff:

  • she still gets trashed hard in botlane, as aggressive supports and earlygame marksmen run rampant. Lucian is probably one of the hardest matchups for vayne and he's super strong right now.

  • the ability to restealth so quickly means very little when damage is so high you die with one and half mage spell. If you catch vayne once, she's dead and she can't make any use of another tumble. When and if damge ever goes down, the vayne balance problem is going to explode in a memorable shitstorm. She will be nigh unkillable if she is given the time to kite.

TL;DR: Vayne is probably even stronger than she may appear, because she's held in check by an extremely unfavorable metagame.

She's gonna be held even more in check in 9.3.

The Crit changes are going to heavily benefit champions like Caitlyn, Draven, Tristana, Twitch, Xayah.

Champions that trash her.

Gesterr3 votes

Also tanks aren't even prevalent when she's supposed to have a tankbusting niche.

ProfDrDeath16 votes

Yes, it is.

Imo, make Silver Bolts an on-attack effect instead of an on-hit effect. That would curb Vayne's abusiveness with Rageblade.

Or, you know, finally replace Phantom Hit with something different and accept that doubling on-hit effects might not be a healthy mechanic.

Sleepcoma1 votes

Or make rageblade a melee only item because all abusers are ranged champs.

SovereignMammal7 votes

{quoted}

Or make rageblade a melee only item because all abusers are ranged champs.

Didn't know Yi was a range champ. TIL.

Sleepcoma1 votes

Yi doesn't abuse it thought lol, its called synergies. Vayne on the other hand is doing 14% max hp damage every 2 autos from range. Its nearly impossible to stack rageblade as a melee champ.

Cuoco Diavolo1 votes

what about kayle who is already in a bad spot who desperately relies on rageblade

SeaWeaboo1 votes

Kayle is considered a melee champ so she would not lose rageblade. Besides she is going to get reworked soon so she may not even use it in the future.

Cuoco Diavolo1 votes

she along with Jayce elise and nidalee are to my knowledge the only champs that can use both runaans and tiamat (or any other melee only item) when kayle activates her e and at rank 5 and 20%+ cdr is always up she is classified as ranged hence the old runaans abuse of her 2 seasons ago

TheMinez1 votes

Gnar

Kazekiba1 votes

Kayle being melee by default means she CAN buy Steraks and Tiamat. However, when E is active these items lose their effects entirely.

She loses the bonus AD from Sterak's and cant get the shield, Tiamat's splash (and Titanic's %health based damage, and Ravenous' lifesteal) don't apply to her autos, etc. Likewise she obviously doesn't shoot bolts at nearby targets when attacking without E up.

Sleepcoma1 votes

Kayle is considered a melee champ.

Cuoco Diavolo1 votes

she is both melee and ranged classified just like all the form swappers. When she toggles her e she is a ranged champion for 10 secs

floo1 votes

Which melee even buys Rageblade aside of Yi?

Sleepcoma1 votes

I'm not even sure, its too weak for melees. Its ok on udyr, but there are better options for him.

Irelia Bot13 votes

It isn't like there is a new vayne skin riot wants to sell well or something...

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/M-bfIzlky55NhM_WeyYadw20aek=/0x0:1199x692/920x613/filters:focal(664x53:854x243)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/62809647/DwaIsnhWwAAE_qu.0.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vgvsJIcciVM/XDUIhCMegXI/AAAAAAABNTA/S5T_JiK7aqMGfJNkjlHfUZqIvlpbEItWQCLcBGAs/s1600/67013.jpg

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Nn7YquN0,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-01-26T19:00:27.349+0000)

It isn't like there is a new vayne skin riot wants to sell well or something...

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/M-bfIzlky55NhM_WeyYadw20aek=/0x0:1199x692/920x613/filters:focal(664x53:854x243)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/62809647/DwaIsnhWwAAE_qu.0.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vgvsJIcciVM/XDUIhCMegXI/AAAAAAABNTA/S5T_JiK7aqMGfJNkjlHfUZqIvlpbEItWQCLcBGAs/s1600/67013.jpg

Ha, your comment is + 10 upvote, mine is basically saying the same = -25, gj, boards.

Irelia Bot3 votes

{quoted}

Ha, your comment is + 10 upvote, mine is basically saying the same = -25, gj, boards.

Likely because you said vayne meta is better than Caitlyn meta.

FFrazien9 votes

Vayne is a champion who needs straight up rework, just a cancer to play against champion for 8+ years already.

JackMcSnipeyz8 votes

I wonder if the stupid buff has anything to do with it?

And yes, ban her, she's way more cancer than ka'sa

stone the blacks7 votes

on a completely unrelated note; NEW VAYNE SKINS

5StackUltOneShot1 votes

{quoted}

on a completely unrelated note; NEW VAYNE SKINS

JUST TO CLARIFY,

U N R E L A T E D

Sett a trap7 votes

I guarantee you 20% of those picks are one trick pony vaynes. Vayne has a long time OTP cult following, the buff was probably too much but this is a perfect example of why Riot doesn't know how to buff Riven. I think Riven's WR is like at 49-50% and that's probably 90% OTP players.

MLDzXnRRR5 votes

She has to sell skins, the game is free, don't worry, they will nerf her at some point.

While she may be a free win late game, games are now short.

Vayne meta is better than Caitlyn meta or similar when you lose not only early, but also mid and late game.( Plus getting critted by 2k+ is the worst feeling ever.)

Thefrostyviking14 votes

So instead crits of 700-1000+14% of your max HP as true damage every second auto from someone dashing around while invisible is more preferable?

SweedishGunner5 votes

Guinsoo's melee only when?

Bjørnetjenesten4 votes

Calm your tits, she is FoM and they also released a new skin for her... what the fuck do you expect? She will be nerfed eventually

Lil Homie busta22 votes

Inb4 her -3 ms nerf 6 months from now

Mordepool3 votes

Im sure ill forget your name. But i will be referencing your post 6 months from now.

L Rayquaza1 votes

{quoted}

Im sure ill forget your name. But i will be referencing your post 6 months from now.

Remember his name. For one day, we will not.

Bjørnetjenesten1 votes

I love the butthurt crybabies jumping on the hate train. If you have played this game for a few years, you will know that riot cycles OP champions year-round, often in context with skin releases.

14daysuspensionk3 votes

Didn't you hear about the massive buff they gave her?

Hayaishi23 votes

Vayne is not even high skill cap tho. All her outplays happens because she is stat checking, Vayne only actually does anything when she is ahead.

F033 votes

{quoted} Yasuo who (Alot of us love to hate on, myself included) Who has a 22% pick rate and is sitting below 50% as he should be, since he is also a high skill cap

most yasuo players are morons we've known this since hes come out

SiG DxD2 votes

400 basic attack 1500 true damage btw

Tobykachu2 votes

It's also a similar situation with Lucian and especially Thresh. They received completely unnecessary buffs and have been the highest picked champions in the bottom lane since and have a positive win rate despite this.

Minimac20001 votes

As much as I love thresh. Have to admit his new w cooldown is bonkers. You can use it like 3x in a fight

Ignika D2 votes

the problem with vayne is if she gets fed theres nothing you can do, you cant dodge anything from her f even fed garen can miss his spin or miss time his w vayne cant miss anything 0 so you have to pray shes dumb enough to make a mistake to kill her cuz honestly she got the tools to survive , they should make her e a skill shot so we coud at least have a chanse to outplay her as a melee

Wild Geese1 votes

Another stat:

n.1 winrate in games 30 mintues or longer.

The Silver bolts powercreep has actually been nuts, I know the Q/R buffs put her over the edge but the Silver Bolts made her a monster in the background ready to be broken with one buff.

It has gone from 8% max health to 14% max health in two years. They should consider lowering the scaling back down or rescaling Silver Bolts entirely.

Daddy Ants2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wild Geese,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Nn7YquN0,comment-id=0025,timestamp=2019-01-28T09:17:01.876+0000)

Another stat:

n.1 winrate in games 30 mintues or longer.

The Silver bolts powercreep has actually been nuts, I know the Q/R buffs put her over the edge but the Silver Bolts made her a monster in the background ready to be broken with one buff.

It has gone from 8% max health to 14% max health in two years. They should consider lowering the scaling back down or rescaling Silver Bolts entirely.

I'd be fine with it going back to 12%.

Every single Quick Gameplay Thoughts where they mentioned Vayne I BEGGED them not to buff Silver Bolts.

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