STOP COMPARING ABILITiES.

Buttigieg 2020··43 votes·2,567 views

Please stop comparing abilities from different champs. "Why does lucian have 500 range while vayne has 550" because lucian has a passive that allows him to proc on hit effects twice and he can burst a target in less than 2 seconds? "Why does fizz untargetability give mobility while vlad pool costs health and gives none" because vlad also has 2 spells that heal him for 700hp in 1 second and a passive that gives him 1k bonus hp for building ap. before you start comparing, please realize how power budgets work. What a champ lacks in one ability is given to another.

75 Comments

Vistha Kai31 votes

You could make an entirely new champion out of Fizz's Trollpole alone.

You can't say it's good.

Buttigieg 20202 votes

Is fizz trollpole strong? Yes, definitely. Is it a valid argument to say that his trollpole is better than vlad pool and because of this vlad needs buffs/fizz needs nerfs? Hell no

Vistha Kai2 votes

I'm absolutely fine with Vlad's pool. It has a long cooldown, doesn't deal massive damage and is pretty costly to use. Like if it was meant to be a defensive ability, weird.

Fizz only has the last part, but he gets a Sheen and can send people back to the fountain easily with his defensive ability dealing 70% of the damage, lmao.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Oh he wasn't debating it, he was stating that a person shouldn't make the arguement between the two a factor for vlad needing buffs.

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb1 votes

For that reason alone, no. However, when you compare them in the context of their kits, I think you can lend validity to the comparison.

Obviously, if we just compare the abilities, troll pole is better than pool. Pole is on a lower cooldown, allows for variable duration, and allows a dash out of it to any location in its radius. It's extremely easy to hit vlad out of his pool because the ms buff will be gone and where he is right before he comes out is where he'll be when he comes out, and the timing is the same every time. Fizz chooses when he comes down, and where. Unlike, say, elise, he's not dependent on a target to come down somewhere other than where he started either. On top of that, the damage scales quite high and is comparable to vlad's pool damage. The difference there is that pole is arguably more reliable as damage, since it deals it all at once as opposed to over time. From this comparison, we can probably say that troll pole is better defensively, and offensively.

However, there's more to this story. Fizz has one other dash, and a lot of damage on it. This makes fizz extremely mobile. Vlad's only form of mobility is the pool (barely), but vlad cannot rightfully use it to go in, and instead needs it to survive in between transfuses, as well as stick. Fizz can use troll pole to get in, out, or deal damage while avoiding damage himself. It has so many applications; offensive, defensive, engage/disengage, and if used right, he can basically get all at once. The pole provides him redundant mobility and engage. Normally, he can use his ult to lock someone down and guarantee a kill or he can close with pole. He can do both if he so chooses. The big difference between the two, is that vlad's is primarily a sticking and survival tool, of which he has little of otherwise,whereas fizz's is insanely versatile and is redundant with various other parts of his kit which give him extreme amounts of those things.

O Fallen Scholar16 votes

But it's the easiest way to make someone go tilt. And it's the source of circlejerking. It's the living engine of these boards.

Artty of Alaska7 votes
  • 1 I saw a thread a few days ago comparing Darius' reworked Q with Annie's Ultimate..

Really?!?!

DJ Di05 votes

Alistar has a Malphite ult at level 2.

#balanced

Buttigieg 20202 votes

Malphite has 30% bonus armor, a 60% attack speed slow, and a massive movespeed steal. Does alistar have any of those?

Mecha MaIphite3 votes

as someone who mains malphite and plays alistar frequently, no he does not

his combo is strong, but it's nowhere near as good as malph's ult. malph can ult much further than alistar, use his ult to escape, and the radius is also bigger

it's also easier to land and easier to hit multiple targets, because with alistar you have to rely for someone to be at the center of the place you want to combo

DJ Di03 votes

{quoted}

as someone who mains malphite and plays alistar frequently, no he does not

his combo is strong, but it's nowhere near as good as malph's ult. malph can ult much further than alistar, use his ult to escape, and the radius is also bigger

it's also easier to land and easier to hit multiple targets, because with alistar you have to rely for someone to be at the center of the place you want to combo

Annie has a Sona ult at level 1

#balanced

ShadowParker1 votes

This argument is like saying anyone with an aoe stun has a sona ult.

Judging by your argument, you're saying Swain's w is the equivalent of a sona ult and a annie w.

DJ Di03 votes

{quoted}

This argument is like saying anyone with an aoe stun has a sona ult.

Judging by your argument, you're saying Swain's w is the equivalent of a sona ult and a annie w.

No, Swain's W is an amumu ult, not a Sona ult.

alsohowhaveyounotpeoplecaughtontomysatireyetlmao

LaowPing3 votes

I think he's being sarcastic.

BakedLotion5 votes

why does mf have a gp ult at level 1

LaowPing4 votes

Because she (almost) killed him and stole his cannons.

Maikal2 votes

Lucian.

Burst.

In 2015.

Dank meme, you got me.

MegamanEXE792 votes

Then I have an honest question :O

Compare LeeSin Safeguard with Braum Stand Behind Me. Consider power budgets. Tell us why Braum is still not allowed to ward hop with it.

Especially in situations where you'd like to jump into/out-of Dragon/Baron pit to defend.

Lugg1 votes

The power budget is where the problem is. Here is an example on two champs.

Yas has wind wall and Fizz has Playful Trickster which are some of the top 5 abilities in the game, ults included. Yet they both have ridiculously powerful abilities in addition to those. Both of their ults are insanely strong.

I have no problem with strong abilities, but you have to have weak abilities to balance them out.

TotalJerk10 votes

Every time I see someone bitch about Yasuo's windwall I get the feeling that they have no idea what its cooldown is.

Lugg3 votes

Yes, the CD is long, but you can argue its the most powerful ability in the game. Plus Yas has ways to mitigate or avoid damage without it. Unlimited dashes and passive auto shield.

TotalJerk3 votes

His dashes are conditional and his shield can be poked of by as little as an auto-attack.

ElJanitorFrank7 votes

This Wind Wall is insanely easy to out play. Just get out of range of Yasuo's damage, and bam, the Wind wall is useless because it's just 5 seconds of non-combat.

Not counting the fact that every single champion in the game has at least one non-skillshot.

And most ultimates aren't projectile ultimates, as people always love to pretend when talking about how overpowered he is.

I have never found Yasuo to be a problem, excluding pre-nerf Yasuo. He is actually very easy to face in my opinion, on most champions.

Lugg1 votes

The problem with Yas is that if you pair him with someone like Malphite or Alistar, he is going to prison rape your team and there really isn't anything you can do about it.

ElJanitorFrank2 votes

Besides not standing within 300 units of each other =/

Lugg2 votes

If your team doesn't have anyone within 300 units of each other, you get Aced with no return kills at all since you can't teamfight at all.

Good luck with that.

Mecha MaIphite2 votes

You don't need to be clumped in a tiny little ball to teamfight. If anything, you should have a little bit of space between your front and back line to avoid getting hit too hard by AoE abilities.

ElJanitorFrank4 votes

What? You don't need to be that close to each other to teamfight. The only champion in the game who has 0 ranged abilities would be Udyr, and he's more of a split pusher anyway.

If you need to be clumped so tightly together that Malphite can knock up 5 people, how do you win ANY teamfights against AOE opponents?

Lugg1 votes

Good luck getting that spacing if your team is doing Baron or Dragon. Even if only 3 people get knocked up, Yas will kill them with his ult. Good luck winning a 5v2.

ElJanitorFrank4 votes

If you're doing baron/drag with all five of the enemy team's members up and their locations unknown, you made a mistake anyway and deserve to be punished for it.

LOL Spammer2 votes

Uh poppy has no ranged abilities and im sure theres others

CubedJustice1 votes

Garen Jax Renekton Udyr Volibear Poppy Along with some others, if you count things like Alistar W, or Tryndamere E.

ElJanitorFrank1 votes

Garen's ultimate is outside melee range, as is his E.

Jax's leap.

Renekton's empowered Q and dash.

Udyr was the one sole exception I mentioned.

Volibear's E is outside his range, I'm not sure about his bite, and his ultimate lets him hit enemies well beyond his melee range.

I mentioned poppy to the last guy, her E and ultimate are both abilities outside of melee range.

LOL Spammer1 votes

if you look at it that way udyr's r still hits outside melee range

ElJanitorFrank1 votes

Her E and ult are both castable from outside melee ranged.

JohnnyNoxid1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, the CD is long, but you can argue its the most powerful ability in the game. Plus Yas has ways to mitigate or avoid damage without it. Unlimited dashes and passive auto shield.

"Unlimited dashed"

......... only... on enemy units......

Lugg1 votes

Well if he is fighting, there is at least 1 dash always available.

JohnnyNoxid2 votes

{quoted}

Well if he is fighting, there is at least 1 dash always available.

One dash isn't the end of the world.

65wQhMlGlT1 votes

One short range dash that can only go towards you...

Lugg1 votes

Considering that he is a melee fighter, that's a good thing.

pacifishstick1 votes

Yasuo doesn't have unlimited dashes unless he's playing against a Yorick and a Heimerdinger who take turns spawning ghouls/turrets on CD for him to dash through.

Lugg1 votes

As long as there are enemies he hasn't dashed too in the previous few seconds, he can dash. So, if there are plenty of enemies around, his dash truly is unlimited.

pacifishstick1 votes

...until he dashes through all of them. Then it's pretty limited.

Lugg1 votes

But if he gets 4 or more dashes, they are all dead anyway due to the scaling damage.

pacifishstick1 votes

At max rank 225 (plus .6 ap) magic damage isn't the reason they are dead.

Lugg1 votes

True, but it sure doesn't hurt to have extra free damage. Plus it makes him incredibly hard to target with skill shots.

pacifishstick1 votes

I don't disagree with you on either point there I was just saying that he doesn't actually have unlimited dashes.

Lugg1 votes

He actually does have unlimited dashes, but realistically there will only be so many enemies at one time.

pacifishstick1 votes

Hahah I guess it all depends on how you look at it. To me a Lucian with 100% CDR has unlimited dashes. Sure, in theory if there are an infinite amount of enemies then Yasuo can have unlimited dashes, but there aren't an infinite amount of enemies in one place at any given time on Summoner's Rift. Agree to disagree I suppose?

BuzzinTate1 votes

{quoted}

Every time I see someone bitch about Yasuo's windwall I get the feeling that they have no idea what its cooldown is.

same for morgana shield

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