no base armor/mr options. (no one takes green as a side, or main unless you're a hardcore tank)
and no passive mana regeneration, only while using abilities.
rip + 3.7 mp5.
soooo yeah everyones going to be dealing tons more damages in the early game, its going to be tld discovery all over again. alistar top lane "pop'd you" montage videos.
-9 armor/ - 12 mr for everyone across the board. get ready for league of early game level advantage through snowball kills.
Stars Shaper43 votesRiot said that all characters are going to get some base stat values increased.
Arakadia2 votesPOWER CREEP??
Kloqdq2 votesyou mean putting us to square 1?
Arakadia2 votesIf four kids each have a slice of food it's "balanced". One kid gets another slice, so you give the other three another slice as well. It's not square one, you just increased overall power.
Kloqdq3 votesBut you didn't. Consider it like this.
You have runes and masteries right now.
You remove both of them and create the new runes.
New runes are for the most part just refined masteries. They have roughly the same amount of stat power amongst them with only slightly increased values here and there.
Then you have runes missing. Some of the power is there in the new runes but it is faaaaar from there.
So you put some power onto each champion via base buffs and you restore them back to their base value.
You are then at square one.
Arakadia1 votesIn my opinion new runes add a large amount of power and Riot is planning on buffing the champions that need it further.
Kloqdq2 votesThe whole new rune page is basically just a slightly better Mastery Page. Champions will see slight increases to their bases to be in line with old runes but its still a large nerf since you can't say go 20 armor as a tank into a really rough match-up. Or you being unable to grab HP over armor into APs. You lose the ability to truly alter your base stats and are kind of screwed at times. The new runes and buffs to base stats, which won't be much and the numbers of runes are very likely to change, are just equal to current power at best. The only thing that is really getting a good buff is ADCs.
Very Hard Engage9 votesthat would be alright, but i doubt they'll be considerate to what champions need or what players may or may not have tec'd in.
Stars Shaper2 votesWell, you surely won't get Armor as Xerath for example. Gained stats will be based on your main stats rather than situational ones.
Imperial Japan1 votesthat would be alright, but i doubt they'll be considerate to what champions need or what players may or may not have tec'd in.
And then there's alternate playstyles that they'll completely erase - I.e. Jg Twitch
Zetto1 votesGood. Jungle twitch is cancer. No jungler should have a stealth mechanic, range, and innate slows, and god tier damage.
TheSingularity12 votesgonna miss starting with 30 armor against a rough ad matchup
Better yet: TOXIC AF FULL SCALING ad ILLAOI!
RiotSparkle9 votesYo, I totally understand your concerns if you're just looking at the rune builder on the website for sure.
As others have mentioned, we are making pretty significant adjustments to base stats across the board to keep the early game feeling similar to live right now (and will continue to do so through out Preseason). I think the plan is to spit those changes out in chat at the beginning of the game for PBE (inelegant, but effective) so you can tell how your champion has been changed.
There are also some handy Armor & MR options in Resolve, which is more of a defensively oriented tree if you want to play to a specific lane match up. However, if your mindset is "no one takes green as a side" you'll probably miss out on those? We've found in testing so far that many players are opting into/changing to the Resolve Path as a secondary for some extra security in more difficult matchups.
Hupsis4 votesIs there a reason why the resolve tree runes Iron skin and Mirror shell are basically the same thing but just for a different defensive stat? Also the Conditioning rune has somewhat same effect after 10 minutes but just better since it gives both armor and mr. To me these runes sound very uninteractive compared to the others.
Why not try something more interactive? Every 30 seconds you get a shield that mitigates 50-75% of the damage from the next damage source from enemy champion. Or maybe something like an adaptive shield that buffs the resistance you least have.
There needs to be more reasons to pick resolve as secondary path for squishy characters. % based resistance increase is hardly worth considering.
Very Hard Engage2 votes3 mr, or 3 armor, well sign me up already, thats game changing!
(sarcasm)
how about the joke 4% health back over 10s, im not worried about poke damage, im worried about ganks and walking out. (pro tip, you need health to make that work, 4% of 0 is still 0)
a champ like veigar can not function with those runes, its the equivalent of taking nothing at all, may as well double down on offense or pick up mobility from inspiration.
Hupsis2 votesWell to be fair the numbers might still change. But still a simple stat buff for a rune is kinda boring (unless it's somehow conditioned). And part of the power also lies with the % resistance buff which squishier characters don't really benefit from.
RiotSparkle3 votesYes, to quote Meddler from his gameplay thoughts for today:
"It's worth mentioning again that what hits PBE is still work in progress. Numbers especially are likely to change, particularly those on Runes themselves, but also potentially things like style bonuses, which additional base stats champs get, some early item stats etc. "
RiotSparkle7 votesWell honestly, we found that some players actually prefer flat stats and enjoyed that part of the old runes system. Also, with 6 different runes in a page, not everyone wanted a super interactive thing in every slot (that's a lot of extra stuff to think about).
There are more active options for defense if that's your jam (ex: Nullifying Orb) but we are trying to have a mix of runes you really need to think about and runes that you can kinda set and forget.
Also for Iron Skin and Mirror Shell, the idea is for a bit of a 'reactive' choice - i.e you use your knowledge of the opponent to change this option from game to game. When comparing both of these to something like Conditioning, the question I usually ask myself is "do I think I can keep myself from getting wrecked long enough for Conditioning to kick in? Or do I need that protection immediately from level 1 to stay safe?"
Hope that answers your questions a little bit, but happy to chat more with the design logic behind stuff. :)
Jeddy0172 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yhoEMlXG,comment-id=001800000001,timestamp=2017-09-26T17:22:55.680+0000)
Well honestly, we found that some players actually prefer flat stats and enjoyed that part of the old runes system. Also, with 6 different runes in a page, not everyone wanted a super interactive thing in every slot (that's a lot of extra stuff to think about).
As one of those players, thank you for considering us. When all these rune changes were announced (even before when I read Red comments about updating the rune system), I just wanted some simple runes that do some simple stuff so I can play my champ. I'm not here to play the runes.
Flemman6 votesabout nullifying orb, why only make it block magic damage? Isn't doing a camille like shield (base on incoming damage) better?
feels like this rune should have a physical counterpart because of how easy it is to proc (shield that proc themselves are the one I find the least interesting so, if ad another, why is it to be a second hexdrinker only)
I fear that ad vs ap matchup will be even more braindead now itemisation wise :s
HaIlMonitor1 votesThree letters for you
A-D-C
Spoofghoul1 votesWhat i primarily want to know about these runes is how they end up interacting with stuff
like will celerity work with sion ult, Or in the case of iron skin will it stack infinitely as long as you pump out heals?
I'm a sucker for ''troll'' builds
And i wanna start theory crafting, which i already am ofc, but it's kind of futile until i know the exact workings of the runes
Any chance we get a little more info on that on the official page?
reaperteaser1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yhoEMlXG,comment-id=001800000001,timestamp=2017-09-26T17:22:55.680+0000)
Also for Iron Skin and Mirror Shell, the idea is for a bit of a 'reactive' choice - i.e you use your knowledge of the opponent to change this option from game to game. When comparing both of these to something like Conditioning, the question I usually ask myself is "do I think I can keep myself from getting wrecked long enough for Conditioning to kick in? Or do I need that protection immediately from level 1 to stay safe?"
will we be getting any extra time in champ select after all the champs are locked in to make these changes?
Tychusfindlay9181 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yhoEMlXG,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2017-09-26T16:54:26.224+0000)
Yo, I totally understand your concerns if you're just looking at the rune builder on the website for sure.
As others have mentioned, we are making pretty significant adjustments to base stats across the board to keep the early game feeling similar to live right now (and will continue to do so through out Preseason). I think the plan is to spit those changes out in chat at the beginning of the game for PBE (inelegant, but effective) so you can tell how your champion has been changed.
There are also some handy Armor & MR options in Resolve, which is more of a defensively oriented tree if you want to play to a specific lane match up. However, if your mindset is "no one takes green as a side" you'll probably miss out on those? We've found in testing so far that many players are opting into/changing to the Resolve Path as a secondary for some extra security in more difficult matchups.
Is the base stat gain going to be proportionate?
I'd imagine a juggernaut like darius wouldn't get the same base increases as an ADC (preferrably slightly more).
RiotSparkle2 votesYes, there will be different stat packages on a champion class level as well as some on an individual champion level
Siegfriedx12 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yhoEMlXG,comment-id=001800020000,timestamp=2017-09-26T23:35:43.917+0000)
Yes, there will be different stat packages on a champion class level as well as some on an individual champion level
Can Soraka get some extra health regen?
Legacy Hydralpha1 votesCan we expect to see a list of all the stat changes anytime soon, or not until preseason?
Vekkna4 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yhoEMlXG,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2017-09-26T16:54:26.224+0000)
Yo, I totally understand your concerns if you're just looking at the rune builder on the website for sure.
As others have mentioned, we are making pretty significant adjustments to base stats across the board to keep the early game feeling similar to live right now (and will continue to do so through out Preseason).
If I take 20 mpen in starting runes, it's literally not possible for you to adjust base stats enough to compensate for that loss. I thought we would at least keep the Precision mastery as a rune, but even that's out the window.
So in literally 100% of my games, I just straight-up lose 20-26 flat pen. MR reduction from base stat tinkering might make up for 5-10 of that.
The simple fact is that I am now starting off weaker in all of my games, and every item purchase throughout the game will result in a weaker power spike. What's worse is that - as a whole - the new runes don't come close to replacing what I lose, and I can't find a single new rune that has obvious synergy with my main champ.
It's not like this issue wasn't on your radar.
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E65U4RTK-what-is-happening-to-mpen-runes
As a player who plays virtually 100% of games using either MS quints or 13-20 mpen, I'm really concerned about how these changes are going to affect me.
I'm really concerned about this as a
main that often uses MS quints and requires full mpen pages for her to function well. Mpen isn't a base stat, and I'm not expecting to see a keystone that gives 20 flat pen at level 1. How worried should I be about this?
On behalf of
We rely on rune pages that start 13-20 mpen. Losing that would be a very significant early/mid nerf by reducing the value of the 30 flat pen available for purchase on items.
When are we going to get a response about losing full pen pages? This is the 5th thread where I have asked this.
A whole blog dedicated to lost stats and still no mention of magic pen. Like, how do you go through a list of stacked, niche rune pages (attack speed, CDR, and MS) without mentioning mpen? I think it's safe to read between the lines at this point.
Any word on solution for mpen with rune changes? It was noticeably absent from the last blog post about niche stat pages.
Is there any word on new runes that will address the loss of pen pages?
Again, if you increase everyone's base stats, does that mean an increase in starting resists. What about pen runes?!
What is happening with mpen runes?
What about mpen and lethality?
What about magic pen? Still not a word about it.
I just want to know what the actual fuck is going to happen with magic pen in the new system. Like, I don't care about losing runes/pages I paid for, but it would be really nice to at least get an answer to the question I've asked in at least a half dozen dev threads.
What is happening with magic pen from runes?
Even if you lower MR across the board, this is a drastic change for pen-stacking mages. And in the context of mage itemization with quite a lot of hp and little resist, it's a fairly severe nerf. I am worried that the two mages who rely on this will be left behind in the course of such huge, sweeping changes.
We finally got an answer from Meddler last week, and the answer was this:
We'll likely be reducing starting MR across the board, not buffing it, so while champs won't start with flat magic pen like they used to they'll be facing lower MR values, both from champ starts and generally from pre-game.
Umm...ok? Lowering MR by a few points doesn't account for the loss of 20-26 pen. It's just a pure nerf. If Riot did manage to keep pen mages at the status quo through base stats, that ends up being a buff to AP-scaling mages that would have otherwise had to chew through higher base MR. It's just math.
Now that we know there are no pen runes, can anyone at Riot be bothered to acknowledge the nerf to pen mages and rationalize it with numbers?
On another note, what does it take to get a simple question answered? I politely asked devs about this in 14 different threads over the course of 3 months, beginning the same day as the reforged announcement. At no point has anyone addressed or acknowledged the fact that this is a substantial nerf to a few champs. Does this seem reasonable or fair to you?
EcchiOtakuTM5 votesMy concern use to be the same for junglers and early defense, but now this gives them more room to freely add onto base stats for junglers and laners who are struggling.
Mana is my 3rd main concern though, I loved getting 1(2 after nerfs) point(s) in mediation for majority of champs which allowed 1 or 2 spell cast with my back against the wall and low on mana which was far more useful than 1% damage. But now I can't get access to mana regen at all unless I want to give up better options. :/
However my 2nd concern is still champs who wanted 15-20% early game CDR. I'm going to be watching them closely as to how they'll perform without it.
And even more than that, my #1 concern are hybrid champs will they become busted with the changes or lose out on the changes... My main hybrid champ being shaco, I more than loved having an extra 24 lethality, 40 AP(lvl 18), 8 AD(lvl 18) in a game just from runes and masteries
Fairyfleur2 votesMagic Pen champions like Zyra and Brand will also be hurting a lot; there's no good way to get a lot of flat pen.
Steelflame1 votesI suspect that we'll get another Mpen item at some point in the future, and champion base MR is going DOWN to make up for the loss of Mpen runes. I believe every champ is losing like 5 MR IIRC the number.
Sir Fuzzi5 votesThey've been removing mp5 options since like S4. This should come as no surprise.
You're forgetting everyone got -9/-12 but there's no AD/AP quints or stacking runes anymore or anything like that. You won't be able to load up on +20 AD at level one, is what I'm getting at.
The balance for the rune system happens in two hands where I see it, one is to give everyone access to simpler and more pronounced effects, the other is to pull the game away from behind-the-scenes numbers like Runes-- now I know Lucian took Looter (random example), I'm not poring over his stats and trying to piece together where his runes/masteries fall.
The real crime is that they didn't announce it by saying 'We're about to Rune League of Legends. Forever.'
Catastrop4 votesIf there's one thing In going to miss terribly, it's my scaling HP seals. I honestly cannot imagine playing Mid(or anywhere for that matter) without them.
GayFluffyUnicorn3 votesThat will be so aids tbh. hpxlvl have always been better than any other option after level 8 or something and are much more valuable than anything else. i don't play a single champ without those seals. With all the damage in the game you had a solid midgame where you could afford to get hit by that one stray ability.
Bârd4 votesWorth noting that base stats are being adjusted across the board.
NineTailedMystic1 votesimplying squishies will get much of a defensive boost, if at all.
Karn Bishop3 votesI'm not particularly worried, already got two possible WW pages Nailed down.
I call page option one the good boy who never dies page and option two Zoomy zoom super fast your still dead page
[sg-miss-fortune]
Fullmetallic3 votes[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yhoEMlXG,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-09-25T23:36:36.841+0000)
I'm not particularly worried, already got two possible WW pages Nailed down.
[sg-miss-fortune]
Those are the best names
Pacattack251 votes[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yhoEMlXG,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-09-25T23:36:36.841+0000)
I'm not particularly worried, already got two possible WW pages Nailed down.
[sg-miss-fortune]
I call this one the 'Ez ult on a 20 second CD' http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/preseason-update/8300-8351?build=40020223
Karn Bishop1 votesdamn that might actually be annoying.
ldsjm43 votesI know that I'm a lvl 30 unranked, but I personally really love playing Yorick and I see myself probably taking the Green/Resolve as my main path, I will definitely at least take it as a side just because demolish (the thing where after 4 seconds near a tower you get to hit it for a lot of damage) seems like such a fun thing to have as a split pusher.
Kaìju3 votesActually green seems pretty solid in its own way. You can use it to proc certain combos. For example, an Ashe with Font of Life can proc Ardent just by having someone hit whoever she damages since all here damage applies CC. Or the keystones for more health, which say a Sion could take in addition to something else.
Spoofghoul1 votesa sion would take celerity and ultimate hat
and then oneshot said ashe with ultimate over and over and over
Kaìju2 votesI mean you do you
Tolinar3 votesNo GP5, no EXP quints
As a support main I got no more booster. Just the tempting option to be more broke than usual with debt
Feels batman
NineTailedMystic2 votesI don't want to lane with base 21 Armor vs an Assassin. That's a death wish, and most mid lane APs probably aren't gonna get a defensive stat boost.
EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votesI wouldn't worry they have 3 patches to figure out the stats and most champions will probably get something close to the current runes they take literally every game ie ad armor and mr for top laners. Changed slightly to factor in that mages won't start with 9 magic pen runes.
That leaves a lot of time to figure out the right balance of armor on mid laners
Spoofghoul1 votesyea well you get low armor
they wont be dicking you with a full ad or lethality page either
the sword cuts both ways so i think it will be fine