Boards›Gameplay

Seijuani is grossly OP

originary91··3 votes·1,393 views

Cinderhulk allows her to straight up 100-0 squishes with little effort or counter play, and if she gets a kill or two early she becomes unstoppable for the rest of the game because she's a tank - once a tank gets ahead they'll stay ahead as long as they don't do anything retarded and go about things practically. Tanks come with little risk, I can't punish an out of position Tank like how I can punish an out of position Lee/Kha/Vi, tanks also always have their CC to fall back on, so they'll always be useful, even when behind. Further more tanks can go on any target they like, unlike Carry junglers who have to aim for specific targets. I'm honestly hating this Cinderhulk thing, it just seems OTT really. I get that Tank Junglers need to have their place, cool, but I don't believe that they should ever allowed to dominate the jungle, nor do I believe that a Tank jungler should be allowed to be effective in every situation. That's just overkill. Cinderhulk meta = Tank gets a couple kills early - proceeds to gain control of their jungle and AFK farm, then shows up to dominate every Objective contest or TF with little effort. May occasional decide to waltz around your own jungle once they get cocky.

22 Comments

IcyPepper4 votes

with little effort or counter play,

Her gap closer is short ranged, her main damage is an aoe dot, and she has to land a skill or autoattack you in order to even use her E, and her ultimate is a skillshot.

You know what's counterplay that can completely defeat her, and most junglers in fact?

WARDS.

BUY THEM.

originary911 votes

{quoted}

Her gap closer is short ranged, her main damage is an aoe dot, and she has to land a skill or autoattack you in order to even use her E, and her ultimate is a skillshot.

You know what's counterplay that can completely defeat her, and most junglers in fact?

WARDS.

BUY THEM.

Pass through skillshot with massive AOE and awesome range. Such skillcap.

Nah, fuck wards. I've hardly ever brought them, and that'll probably never change.

insaiyanbacca4 votes

{quoted}

Nah, fuck wards. I've hardly ever brought them, and that'll probably never change.

there is your problem

mvargus4 votes

+1

wards are the best protection against any jungler. If you don't ward and die to a gank that's your own fault because you set up a situation where the jungler can sneak up on you or even sneak behind you.

Heck, that's my favorite way to gank. If the other team isn't warding I just wait for the champ to push past the middle of the river and then come in between them and their turret. 90% of the time I can force them to at least flash even if my laner doesn't join in. (which happens more than I'd like.)

If you aren't warding, you don't have a good argument about how powerful a jungler is. Put out wards and you'll find them annoying, but hardly game breaking. At worst they will force you back to your turret and you'll have to watch while they kill a couple minions before they return to the jungle. A jungler in a lane is a jungler losing money and experience.

LoRdJeSuS69694203 votes

She was already op. Tank and damage

originary912 votes

{quoted}

She was already op. Tank and damage

I was 3/1 as Rengar and had just finished deleting the enemy Jinx, so I'm missing about 100-200 health. Seijuani is 5/1, I'm level 11, she's level 12. She goes on me and kills me within seconds, literally nothing I could do against it. I was like a 1k units away from the bushes and soon realised that I didn't stand a chance at making it there, and when I turned around to try and fight her I could do like NOTHING to her. If that was a Vi or J4 now, it would at least be somewhat of an even fight. If it was a Kha/Lee I probably would've destroyed them. Seijuani? Can't do shit to her. Do bear in mind that I run full AR pen runes for scaling...

redniwediS8 votes

So you were squishy, got caught out, and were already low from a previous fight? I can't think of a single champion in the game that couldn't tear you apart under those circumstances.

insaiyanbacca3 votes

just sayin us tank jungle players have been waiting a while for tanks to be viable jungle again so deal with it

RogueWill2 votes

Like really? No counterplay? No risk? You clearly my friend have never played a tank and hence you don't know how to deal with them.

First, they generally have the worst dueling capabilities and really bad/poor early game. They are not even useful until they hit lvl 9 or so because at early levels they are as squishy as any other champ while doing close to no damage. Even supports cant outduel tanks prior 6.

Second if they get ahead they get unstoppable all game, explain me how is this any different than any other champions, J4 gets ahead he gets unkillable while still dishing out a lot of damage, Vi or Lee gets ahead they can 100-0 you on 1.2 sec. At least a tank will take a solid 15-20 seconds to kill you so you have plenty of time to try something.

Tanks don't go for any target they go for the bulk of people, is the assassin, bruiser or adc job to get to the specific target a tank job is too zone in the carries so they will focus it instead of your own carries. As a tank a succesful engage is when you break down a big team fight into 2 skirmishes a 4v2 and a 1v3 or if you are ahead two 1v4 so once the enemy bruiser and assassins are gone your team can clean up the rest.

So how to deal with a tank 101: Make the early game miserable, invade the jungle, steal the camps, show mid clear so he has to fall back and start the camp over. They are really susceptible to fall behind. If you are in jungle, pressure your lanes. your ganks might not be as good as their tanks (due to his reliable CC) but your clearings are much better and the damage you dish is as well so you can pull more ganks without falling so fall behind. A tank ganks is entirely dependent on hoe much damage their teammate can do.

Late game get armor penetration, magic penetration, bork or whatever counter to the stat the tank is stacking. They normally stack HP plus either armor or MR but highly never both (its way too expensive to stack both). When in teamfights don't let the assassins rush for the squishes because it will make the tanks job of insolating much easier, if you are an adc and you are being chased by the tank don't run backwards, run towards your teamates so you can still deal damage and stay on the fight. I can tell you how many times I have chasen the enemy adc away and just proceed to win a 4v5 match.

As sejuani being OP, she is on a really good spot, she is probably the best tank jungler right now and is between the best top 10 junglers at the moment but is mostly because the viability of the junglers has decayed (similar that what happened to J4). Vi, Lee, J4, Nidalee, Maokai are still above her on terms of best jungles currently. Her damage is over time so even if you disminist it a little it won;t change much since she will never being soloing anyone (unless is ap sejuani nut then she is no tank), same with raising her CD since besides the perma W you can only use your abilities once per teamfight since you won;t be stacking CDR. Her mana levles are already high (specially Q), the only ability that is practically free is her W which she needs to clear the camps.

originary911 votes

{quoted} ** Like really? No counterplay? No risk? You clearly my friend have never played a tank and hence you don't know how to deal with them. **

First, they generally have the worst dueling capabilities and really bad/poor early game. They are not even useful until they hit lvl 9 or so because at early levels they are as squishy as any other champ while doing close to no damage. Even supports cant outduel tanks prior 6.

Second if they get ahead they get unstoppable all game, explain me how is this any different than any other champions, J4 gets ahead he gets unkillable while still dishing out a lot of damage, Vi or Lee gets ahead they can 100-0 you on 1.2 sec. At least a tank will take a solid 15-20 seconds to kill you so you have plenty of time to try something.

Tanks don't go for any target they go for the bulk of people, is the assassin, bruiser or adc job to get to the specific target a tank job is too zone in the carries so they will focus it instead of your own carries. As a tank a succesful engage is when you break down a big team fight into 2 skirmishes a 4v2 and a 1v3 or if you are ahead two 1v4 so once the enemy bruiser and assassins are gone your team can clean up the rest.

So how to deal with a tank 101: Make the early game miserable, invade the jungle, steal the camps, show mid clear so he has to fall back and start the camp over. They are really susceptible to fall behind. If you are in jungle, pressure your lanes. your ganks might not be as good as their tanks (due to his reliable CC) but your clearings are much better and the damage you dish is as well so you can pull more ganks without falling so fall behind. A tank ganks is entirely dependent on hoe much damage their teammate can do.

Late game get armor penetration, magic penetration, bork or whatever counter to the stat the tank is stacking. They normally stack HP plus either armor or MR but highly never both (its way too expensive to stack both). When in teamfights don't let the assassins rush for the squishes because it will make the tanks job of insolating much easier, if you are an adc and you are being chased by the tank don't run backwards, run towards your teamates so you can still deal damage and stay on the fight. I can tell you how many times I have chasen the enemy adc away and just proceed to win a 4v5 match.

As sejuani being OP, she is on a really good spot, she is probably the best tank jungler right now and is between the best top 10 junglers at the moment but is mostly because the viability of the junglers has decayed (similar that what happened to J4). Vi, Lee, J4, Nidalee, Maokai are still above her on terms of best jungles currently. Her damage is over time so even if you disminist it a little it won;t change much since she will never being soloing anyone (unless is ap sejuani nut then she is no tank), same with raising her CD since besides the perma W you can only use your abilities once per teamfight since you won;t be stacking CDR. Her mana levles are already high (specially Q), the only ability that is practically free is her W which she needs to clear the camps.

Yeah I haven't, Tanks seem fkkin boring. Except that I've just said that a Seijuani out-dueled me, a Rengar, when her lead wasn't even that big, and there was literally nothing I could do against it. Just incase you're wondering, I had Warrior, Lucid boots, a brutaliser, two dragons and I was running 19 flat armour pen on runes, I was actually shocked when I saw a Seijuani walking over a ward towards me as if she wanted to 1v1, I was honestly wondering WTF she was thinking. Little did I know that she was about to 90 - 0 me on her own. Lee falls off like a brick, I've been against Lee's that go 8 upwards in 20 minutes, get dragon control and the whole shebang, meanwhile I'm sitting in my jungle, 2/0 maybe, and I'll end up destroying him the moment that the game draws closer to the 25 minute + mark. Likewise, I've never felt oppressed by a fed Vi/J4 and so on because they never build straight tank ( and if they do their damage is gimped hard), so there's always an opportunity for me to force a comeback. Seijuani now is just impossible. There was genuinely nothing I could do against her, or her team when she was near them.

Invading is always an investment that can often go awry in SoloQ. When it does work, it's generally because it was quick and clean. You can't kill a tank quickly and cleanly early, unless you're like, Lee Sin or Shaco. Also, I dunno why people always go on like Tank Junglers are easy to invade. If a tank gets invaded, then they have the survivability to avoid death and the CC to lock you down when their team comes. Champions that are easy to invade early are champs like Rengar/Kha Zhix and Evelynn imo. If you catch them on a camp and they're below 60% then you stand a bloody fair chance at killing them, or at least getting summoners.

Oh, and tanks always have their CC going for them. A Naut/Seijuani/Amumu/Malphite can always just press R even if they're losing hard. Meanwhile, I'm sure we've all had that feeding Lee that made us want to face palm.

{quoted}

So you were squishy, got caught out, and were already low from a previous fight? I can't think of a single champion in the game that couldn't tear you apart under those circumstances.

So I'm full damage with 40 flat penetration, in a 1v1 duel situation against Seijuani, missing about 1/10 of my health and I get absolutely destroyed in a 1v1 when I'm playing ONE OF THE STRONGEST DUELISTS IN THE GAME. And I can. Kha Zhix. LOL.

RogueWill3 votes

Tanks are easy to invade if you know when to invade. You are really not supposed to invade them mid camp but after they cleared the camp. Wolves is by far their most weakest moment. They will smite red everytime so around red is not really a good place to invade, blue will give you better chances. What was sejuani build? If it was something like item 3717 item 3143 item 1001 item 3136 I can see you outdueling you any time. Rengar does really well agaist squishy but mostly because his bruise is insane, he is not the most durable champion specially since you had no life steal. Armor pen does ticklish to sejuani early as they will normally get HP first, flat AD would have work better but then again on rengar you want the armor pen. As for the dragons, let me tell you that early dragon is worth 4-5 extra AD so is not really worth mentioning a drake in here.

Klubhouse2 votes

No.

you don't play tanks, yet you feel that you are qualified to talk about the balancing of tanks. Don't you think that's a little contradictory?

LoLKiru1 votes

" straight up 100-0 squishes with little effort or counter play"

Still a valid post but, thats not really much of an accomplishment.

Anyway its important to note tanks fall behind MUCH more easily if they mess up (by getting killed, by wasting time, etc) than other junglers. Sejuani was already pretty strong as is.

originary911 votes

{quoted}

" straight up 100-0 squishes with little effort or counter play"

Still a valid post but, thats not really much of an accomplishment.

Anyway its important to note tanks fall behind MUCH more easily if they mess up (by getting killed, by wasting time, etc) than other junglers. Sejuani was already pretty strong as is.

It is an accomplishment if it's a full tank doing that shit... No they don't. Tanks are always relevant. Tanks also don't have to worry about position as much, they can just do whatever they bloody well want.

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

It is an accomplishment if it's a full tank doing that shit... No they don't. Tanks are always relevant. Tanks also don't have to worry about position as much, they can just do whatever they bloody well want.

None of that is true at all. Sure it's not completely brainless to delete a tank you randomly find on their own but they're really not unkillable unless you're 40 minutes in and a mage. They have to worry about positioning a lot in fights, their crowd control isn't brainless and they have to tank damage from the right sources while trying to peel threats from their ADC.

And tanks aren't always relevant either - when a tank gets behind they never become tanky because tank items are both cheap and gold inefficient - they can't hide behind "muh late game" because they peak mid game and a behind tank won't get that mid spike on time.

LoLKiru4 votes

{quoted}

It is an accomplishment if it's a full tank doing that shit... No they don't. Tanks are always relevant. Tanks also don't have to worry about position as much, they can just do whatever they bloody well want.

item 3035 item 3135 item 3153

Positioning is still pretty important to tanks.

That said, tanks are relevant in terms of CC at all stages of the game, what I meant by fall behind was in terms of the enemy beating them since offense tends to outscale defense, if you were to for instance pick Amumu, and then give the enemy Rek'Sai first blood, there is a VERY good chance they'll use the gold they got from killing you to press their advantage further and just take over your jungle (whereas you cannot do the same, since you no longer have the offense to fight back), killing you again if you try to go into any place they have vision of (I have done this to people, and had it done to me.)

IcyPepper3 votes

Sejuani isn't just a tank, she's also a fighter. She's supposed to deal damage and be tanky.

Her main counter is Botrk and Vayne. Most of her defensive items need health (such as randuins), because if she builds full defenses then her damage falls off. If you pick Vayne or have botrk and get fed, Sejuani is forced to build thornmail or something similar and begins to fall off.

originary911 votes

I'm getting down voted now, but sooner or later there'll be an influx of Nerf Seijuani/Nerf Cinderhulk threads that'll end up up voted. Just like how people who called Kat/Akali OP got down voted to hell and spammed with the 'Just Pink' 'Just CC' argument, until it became popular to call them broken. People just can't think for themselves...

Hoffmisc2 votes

No, we are thinking for ourselves. And we think you're wrong.

Dangerous Man1 votes

But you fully rely on those first kills or you're screwed, I still upvoted

The Blue Rooster1 votes

Do you realize how long tank junglers have been waiting to be viable again?

A long ass time, so you can just step right off with your complaining that you can't just shit on us without any effort anymore.

Edit: If you're gonna complain about something. Spell it correctly.

WolfChases1 votes

The guy who posted this must be a Lee Sin, Vi or Jarvan main so he cries because his freelo era is OVEEEEERRRR!!!!!!!

Sejuani THE FRELJORD IS MINE!!!!!

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by originary91

What I feel like when up against Azir as Rengar
Gameplay10 comments
11
votes
Dota is vastly superior to LoL
Gameplay27 comments
10
votes
Simple tip to win more games
Gameplay24 comments
8
votes
Can the Honour system be made Relevant Again?
Gameplay3 comments
8
votes
Upvote for Old HUD/Sandbox mode.
Gameplay13 comments
8
votes
Kindred and Nidalee
Gameplay12 comments
7
votes