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@RiotRepertoir Syndra is ''Fine''

Sir Rouge··86 votes·31,384 views

I'm really tired of ''stats don't matter''. It's very convenient to say that when the stats are bonkers.

**From OP.GG, data based on the Korean Server. ** ''Syndra is fine. Mains are still doing fine with her'' Syndra : 46.67% Winrate 2.25% Playrate

''Only mains play Aurelion Sol, he's just in an ok spot''. AurelionSol : 57.38% Winrate 2.07% Playrare.

Wow, basically the same playrate, yet more than 10% higher winrate. Syndra mains are suuuure doing fine.

''Zed is in a bad spot. It's hard to win games as Zed. Buff buff.'' To be fair, he was in a meh spot multiple patches ago. But look at him now. Zed : 53.12% Winrate 8.79% Playrate

Hmm, sure looks hard to win on Zed. He's said to have a higher skillcap than Syndra and brings no utility/hard CC to a team, yet much higher playrate and winrate.

Azir was heavily nerfed do due his competitive prowess, which is true. He's also said to be harder to master than Syndra. Riot even said that they'll be keeping him in a pretty weak spot in solo q until they find a solution. Yet: Azir : 47.48% Winrate 7.33% Playrate

Even he is doing better than Syndra. The bias against Syndra is unreal. Just because people don't like playing against her ultimate.

All we're asking is to revert the Q passive, which we never wanted and knew it would be bad for the champion. It's like the Riot balance team doesn't even play their champs. The most annoying part is that they saw Syndra mains speak out against the change, yet kept going without any response.

It would bring back the sphere management needed to access her burst (good change for enemies playing against Syndra) and would bring back the power her Q needs (good change for Syndra players).

It's a win win situation.

115 Comments

Recon121228 votes

bruh if yas had Zeds winrate the boards wouldn't have a single post not saying nerf yas

Disembark2 votes

Also where the fuck is this dude getting these win rates? I can only find 57% if I do ONLY Masters+ on op.gg (where, btw, random champs have really high winrates, like Xhin at 62%, Heimer at 61% etc).

Also by the same metric... Syndra has a 55% win rate. Hello?

Overall according to OP.gg, A-sol actually has a 54.7% w/r, Syndra has a 47.55% win rate, and Zed has a 51.6% w/r.

OP's point would still stand with these, but I don't see why he has to bullshit the stats.

Zardo5 votes

http://na.op.gg/champion/aurelionsol/statistics/mid

I'm getting 57% as well.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Syndra/Middle/

Sir Rouge6 votes

I did not bullshit the stats. Those were the numbers at the time that I wrote my post. They change as they update. The stats you wrote are the ones that are there now. Notice the playrates also changed a bit.

Krully27 votes

muh point and click champ synrda op Veigar Brand

Sex With Annie43 votes

"lmaoooo she killed me in one rotation" Annie

Corrupt Bliss9 votes

I think the more frustrating aspect is that she doesn't even need one spell rotation, she can kill you solely with her ultimate.

(Not saying Syndra needs buffs, not saying she doesn't need buffs, just pointing out that I find her more frustrating to play against than Zoe).

Barcid12 votes

One 725 unit range spell mostly outranged by the majority of champions she faces that requires her to constantly be prepping it 24/7 to make sure she can even one-shot people with it to begin with because trying to prep it on the fly is a goddamn nightmare and its max damage is capped at 7 spheres with three always available, meaning you have to Q 4 times to reach max damage at all.

Did I mention that at 4 spheres it only hits about as hard as an Annie ult? On one champion? Ah man, so pain, much train.

Bishasaurus Flex14 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yai3mlWg,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-09T04:27:52.249+0000)

One 725 unit range spell mostly outranged by the majority of champions she faces that requires her to constantly be prepping it 24/7 to make sure she can even one-shot people with it to begin with because trying to prep it on the fly is a goddamn nightmare and its max damage is capped at 7 spheres with three always available, meaning you have to Q 4 times to reach max damage at all.

Did I mention that at 4 spheres it only hits about as hard as an Annie ult? On one champion? Ah man, so pain, much train.

People just like to bitch I guess. I admit I'm a Syndra fanatic, but I never have a problem when I'm against her. I don't stand on top of, or on the other side of her Q's, when she has spheres on the ground, I back off. I buy MR, she has to roam (which she is god damn terrible at), and I focus the FUCK out of her in teamfights. She isn't scary unless she's stupidly fed. People just hopped on the Syndra hate bandwagon when the MYMU unleashed (heh heh) her potential.

I will agree that, if she were to get any changes/reverts, her Q should go back to 6 seconds, that way, she is back to "normal". The whole idea of Syndra as a WHOLE CHAMPION, (lore and gameplay), is that she grows in power as time goes on. When Riot made her, they completely hit the mark with her kit showcasing that. She needs constant micromanaging, is one of the most position-reliant champions in the game, and she cannot just 1 shot without prepping her ultimate first (if at all).

koshkyra23 votes

I dont care if you wanna buff syndra but i want some serious counterplay added to her ult first before you do anything

Sir Rouge16 votes

Reverting her Q passive would help a bit with that, since it would make it harder for Syndra to access her R's burst.

Cosnirak2 votes

It would make it harder for the Syndra player but it wouldn't add counterplay to her R. It could be argued that it would add to the effectiveness of existing counterplay from ccing her or playing around her setting up, but that counterplay already exists and is honestly pretty useless for most people who don't also play Syndra a bit themselves. It would do little to nothing to alleviate frustration for her opponents.

As long as Syndra can miss all her skill shots and still flash + R + ignite and kill me from 90% hp the moment she hits level 6 just because I didn't take barrier I'm gonna hate playing against her.

LankPants8 votes

The counterplay is avoiding Syndra when she has multiple balls on the ground, engaging on her when she has 1 rather than 2 or 3. It's time gated counterplay.

Cosnirak7 votes

It doesn't take her long to cast more, she has multiple balls on the ground rather often after her first item, and giving a champion so much space that they can't flash to get within 675 range of you is not acceptable counterplay at level 6. And all of that doesn't even address the fact that the real range you have to avoid is actually her W which can hit someone 1175 away (range + radius) and apply the slow that sets up the easy stun which guarantees your death even from 100% hp.

So yeah, avoid being within flash + 1175 range of her a few seconds after she puts a ball on the ground cause otherwise you could die... Great counterplay. -_-

(and yes I know there are cast times, if your ms is low enough you can possibly flash to dodge, blah blah it's not that simple but honestly it's not far off and her R into E combos might be even more insane to deal with and still kill from a rather high % of hp vs most champs early on)

Sexy Jack Rabbit3 votes

That's where the idea of removing the current Q passive comes in.

Revert the Q passive, and even at 45% CDR the access to her seven ball ultimate drops down to about a 0.8second cast window. Whereas atm it sits much higher around 1.5 seconds.

Without her orbs up as often with a different Q passive she doesn't have as much access to her orbs in general either.

As far as point and clicks go it has counterplay in that you can block the damage via Zhonyas as a mage VERY easily. ADC's possess supports and often have positioning tools to avoid her when she has these orbs available. Tanks don't care.

It's time gated by her CD's and Orb Up time (Not as well as it has been in the past.). Take away her current Q passive and you have an ultimate skill that has reliable power, but plenty of levels of availability when it comes to playing around. (Because oddly enough Syndra being able to KILL her target sometimes is a good thing)

There's really nothing else to add counterplay to the skill without outright removing it, and if there is I'm all ears.

It's funny when people complain about Syndra's burst capability when hers is amongst the most gated in the entire game. Being the only one to require inside AND outside influences in the form of her orbs, being TIME gated AS WELL as CD gated.

Ironic when other burst mages like Veigar Ahri Lux Annie who just hit their signature CC and blast you off the face of the planet, Syndra isn't going to be doing that without SOME form of set-up before hand.

Bishasaurus Flex9 votes

{quoted}

I dont care if you wanna buff syndra but i want some serious counterplay added to her ult first before you do anything

I have some tips that I'll post again in this thread:

  1. Don't approach her when there are spheres on the ground. If she has at least 2, she can combo you without you being able to do much. Be mindful of her positioning, and that of her spheres. If there is a sphere in between the two of you she will stun you and combo you down.
  2. A lot of Syndras will use their stun to engage and win trades early. She will run out of mana very quickly doing this. When you see the delay for the sphere, sidestep. Take advantage of the long CD and punish her if she gets too close.
  3. Take barrier, and make sure to buy MR early to negate her burst.

I could go on and on and on and on, but it's really not that hard. Lmao

Cosnirak4 votes

Don't approach her when there are spheres on the ground.

Once her first item is done she always has spheres on the ground unless you surprise her while she's walking from place to place. Hell even before items in laning phase she has at least one sphere quite a lot of the time.

Be mindful of her positioning

Like every champion... especially one with skill shots.

A lot of Syndras will use their stun to engage and win trades early.

Advice for how to beat bad players of a champion is not the same as that champion having reasonable counterplay.

When you see the delay for the sphere, sidestep. Take advantage of the long CD and punish her if she gets too close.

Dodge skill shots? Punish missed skillshots? Mind blowing!

Take barrier, and make sure to buy MR early to negate her burst.

Definitely does not equal quality counterplay, even if it is good advice.

I could go on and on and on and on

No you couldn't.

Half of your advice is "git gud at league," most of it has nothing to do with counterplay to her ult, and none of it that is related to her ult is stuff people should have to do to the degree that they have to do it to really have a meaningful impact.

The last time she was meta in pro games her win rate was also low (though admittedly probably not as low as it is right now). And considering I've watched Faker get destroyed by her 1v1 I'm gonna go ahead and assume the problem isn't just that I need to play better.

It's completely fine for you to want buffs for her. It's not fine to be dismissive about the frustration people feel from playing against her.

Bishasaurus Flex4 votes

{quoted}

Once her first item is done she always has spheres on the ground unless you surprise her while she's walking from place to place. Hell even before items in laning phase she has at least one sphere quite a lot of the time.

Like every champion... especially one with skill shots.

Advice for how to beat bad players of a champion is not the same as that champion having reasonable counterplay.

Dodge skill shots? Punish missed skillshots? Mind blowing!

Definitely does not equal quality counterplay, even if it is good advice.

No you couldn't.

Half of your advice is "git gud at league," most of it has nothing to do with counterplay to her ult, and none of it that is related to her ult is stuff people should have to do to the degree that they have to do it to really have a meaningful impact.

The last time she was meta in pro games her win rate was also low (though admittedly probably not as low as it is right now). And considering I've watched Faker get destroyed by her 1v1 I'm gonna go ahead and assume the problem isn't just that I need to play better.

It's completely fine for you to want buffs for her. It's not fine to be dismissive about the frustration people feel from playing against her.

I hope you're kidding. Itemizing appropriately is indeed a source of counterplay. It's why items exist lmao. Champions like Braum, Tahm, Lissandra, all effectively counter her ultimate. I don't want buffs for Syndra, I even stated before that her Q could be reverted. I don't like dealing with Zed, but I've learned to itemize and play better against him.

Seriously, it isn't hard.

Psyrix2 votes

{quoted}

I dont care if you wanna buff syndra but i want some serious counterplay added to her ult first before you do anything

Zhonyas :/... or even just hourglass

koshkyra3 votes

{quoted}

Zhonyas :/... or even just hourglass

Name one other effect in the game that isnt countered by zhonyas or hourglass.

RiotRiotRepertoir18 votes

I just came out of a meeting where we talked about giving Syndra some help in 8.8, as well as a bunch of other things. However, we're adding some stuff to the patch that heavily influences her competition, so we'd like to see how those work out and then see if we think she still has room for some direct help after seeing how that goes.

Q passive could be the thing that we should do. To the best of my knowledge, I don't think anyone here is too particularly attached to that exact passive bonus.

Teridax683 votes

What would be the scope you'd consider for Syndra changes? 8.8 is a big patch, and one of the running criticisms of Syndra has been that her passive feels lackluster in its implementation: would you consider changing the way her innate worked, or do you think it would be better to focus exclusively on a more targeted part of her kit?

RiotRiotRepertoir7 votes

Unsure. I imagine it would require some level of investigation. Her passive could be on the table; that doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

darkdill13 votes

I suggest taking a look at Quest talents in Heroes of the Storm and trying something like that for Syndra. Require her to land hits with her abilities on enemy Champions to unlock rewards.

Teridax689 votes

I second this. Syndra's innate has this amazing potential in what it represents, i.e. by having her empower herself by reaching mastery over the course of a match. However, the implementation is lackluster, because it mostly just boils down to a slight increase in stats at certain level milestones.

Seeing how League already has quest mechanics in place with support items, but also on Kayn, whose innate is its own kind of quest, it might help to look into a similar mechanic for Syndra, where using her abilities successfully (e.g. landing them against enemy champions) empowered them after reaching a milestone. Depending on the difficulty of these milestones, it could also allow for far more interesting and gameplay-changing effects than just bonus damage or range.

LankPants5 votes

I think this could have some especially interesting implications for her ultimate. Since her ult's a multihit ability it would make sense for each hit to grant stacks meaning higher orb counts would stack up her ult more quickly.

Ultîma2 votes

I'm a little surprised that a new iteration of Cass's old passive didn't make a return on Syndra considering her theme of "infinite power".

xelaker2 votes

Should give her more rewards for landing her abilities before she hits R to nuke me. It's always felt like if sydra is strong she can miss everything and still nuke you with the R

T4underbolt12 votes

Thanks God syndra is not picked. I don't want to be up against " look I missed all skillshots but point and click r on you and you die". Rework her completely first. Zed gets fked by one champion called support every time. 99% games with zed is won because it's team that carries him not him carrying and azir despite his win rate is a cancer to lane against. He needs more nerfs on his oppressive laning phase as he is a god in late.

Krully12 votes

{quoted}

Thanks God syndra is not picked. I don't want to be up against "** look I missed all skillshots but point and click r on you and you die**". Rework her completely first. Zed gets fked by one champion called support every time. 99% games with zed is won because it's team that carries him not him carrying and azir despite his win rate is a cancer to lane against. He needs more nerfs on his oppressive laning phase as he is a god in late.

where in the world is this happening??? shes weak

Step Sis Lux13 votes

{quoted}

where in the world is this happening??? shes weak

He is probably zed main so we all know what does that mean

Corrupt Bliss2 votes

Happens all the time actually :/

Steelflame4 votes

While not quite, it takes her landing VERY little so long as she has a few spheres. And you can't exactly play around them all the time. So long as one is on the ground, she can cast Q again for a second, and have a 5 sphere ulti. That+Q damage is enough to really chunk most champs who are not building hard durability, add in an E that will nearly guaranteed land after all those spheres hit the ground around the target, and yea. You can't really dodge that.

The Q duration upgrade probably is tied to the wrong ability if they do want extended sphere up-time to be a thing. Tying it to her first max means she is expected to have it very early on, and all the time after that. Her main DPS spell becoming the setup for her biggest burst spell.

Instead, tie it to her W max, and put the true damage component back onto the Q. If you want to massively increase your sphere count, you gotta max W after Q, but that comes at the trade of the CD of your stun, which is also a major pick tool and potential AoE stun for teamfights, which generally means you won't until the very end, unless you are really desperate for the increased access to your single target burst and skirmishing power at the cost of your biggest AoE and teamfight tool, which, IMO, is very fair.

LatetotheRace10 votes

" It's like the Riot balance team doesn't even play their champs." Honest to god... this is how I feel nowadays.

Tacosrock8 votes

Thank you for addressing this here. I remember when a Rioter said that it's fine if Syndra is just a "counterpick" (with a 2% playrate btw) and nothing else, which pisses me off to no end when the majority of mid lane champs are better than her in every way imaginable. Although I actually like the current Q passive, if they have to revert that to put more power into her kit, then I'm down for it.

Bishasaurus Flex8 votes

I just played a draft where I ended 15/4 Syndra. I got super fed but I could only "1 shot" the Nami sup. Even their Ashe kept her heal for when I ulted her. TBH, this is REALLY getting out of hand. Ever since that damn MYMU Syndra has been getting hammered with negativity because of her "point and click ultimate". Mind you, she has always HAD that ultimate, but it only became a problem because she had access to the full potential of her ultimate. The "counterplay" is not her ultimate, but her spheres on the ground. PAY ATTENTION to them. WAAAY to often do I see enemies stand on top of a Q I have on the ground, or they just blindly walk up to me. She is stupidly easy to gank, just play around her E and the spheres she has on the ground. Also, buy a Negatron cloak and merc treads. I guarantee you won't get "one shot".

Disembark5 votes

Bruh.

You were 15/4 but the Ashe was 12/5 AND she had Nami AND Ivern AND Maw + Mercs to help her survive.

Ryze built Abby mask, ROA, Banshees, Mercs + seraphs shield.

Now I'm not gonna defend the abundance of shield/heals/peeling items, but if you were able to 1-shot her through all that, then it would actually be way more concerning.

SB Arneeman8 votes

They need to shift power away from her R or rework it completely to properly balance Syndra. I agree that she's way too weak right now though. As a Viktor/Azir player I know that feeling.

Seviel Vorose8 votes

As a Syndra main, i feel ignored and abandoned by Riot. That's just sad.

Malix Farwin4 votes

Thank god, i miss playing Syndra.

Bishasaurus Flex4 votes

sigh cannot get through to you knuckleheads. If you don't wanna fight her, ban her.

BuT wE sHoUlDnT hAvE tO wAsTe A bAn oN hEr.

Rico Nasty2 votes

She needs a rework, not just one of those mini reworks they do in the class updates, but a straightup rework. I feel like Riot missed the mark thematically and gameplay-wise with Syndra. Her kit just doesn't mesh well together imo. She needs a new passive and a more interactive ult. Also remove all her bugs.

Sir Rouge9 votes

Riot did mention a while back that they are planning on visiting Syndra, but with Riot's ''lack of ressources'', this will take a long time.

For now, reverting her Q passive would help a bit with her ult, since it would make it harder to access it's burst.

(Personally, I think her Q, W and E mesh really well tbh, which is probably why I like her)

OverpoweredSoap10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rico Nasty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yai3mlWg,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-09T01:24:27.894+0000)

She needs a rework, not just one of those mini reworks they do in the class updates, but a straightup rework. I feel like Riot missed the mark thematically and gameplay-wise with Syndra. Her kit just doesn't mesh well together imo. She needs a new passive and a more interactive ult. Also remove all her bugs.

I disagree that she needs a bigger kit rework but I do think that her passive could be changed to something more interesting and rewarding rather than "spend points on your abilities to make them even stronger" and instead reward actual gameplay.

BITEZ ZA DUSTO2 votes

[deleted]

Bishasaurus Flex3 votes

[{quoted}](name= BITEZ ZA DUSTO,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yai3mlWg,comment-id=0020,timestamp=2018-04-10T11:16:27.648+0000)

Think people need to understand, us Syrnda mains want to move power out of the ult and into the Q like it was before or just get a better passive. This over run meme of - I just got one shot by a Syndra that missed everything - isn't real and is an experience that we want to change for those in constant denial.

For those who doesn't know, Syndra's current Q passive lets her spheres survive for an extra few seconds allowing for easy 7 ball ults if maxed at lvl 9. This is what we want to change as it lowered her skill floor ands ceiling for not reason. It creates a painful experience for those playing against her and forced the mains to be endless told they play a point and click brain dead champ. Even though fun fact, Syndra has had that ult since she first came out. The old Syndra would need to build max CDR and had an extremely reduced amount of time to land the ult once she got the 7th ball down.

However in the MYMU they shifted power away from her kit an put it all into her ult (and still never fixed her mana issues). Making her overall lane performance weaker just so you can feel good about landing a bigger ult. Any champ the can dodge her ult R or stay out of range from it is now an Insta losing lane because the rest of her cant pick up. Hence why we just want a reduced ult, for a better overall kit.

For those that don't want Syndra to ever get played I have some tips

Build a Negatron, Merc boots or barrier/ nullifying orb, if ad just get a hextrinker (itemisation helps)

Her roams are trash due to her movement speed and mana problems are plenty

Syndra may be squishy as hell but shes also a BURST MAGE, if your an ADC trying to 1v9 the world make sure you have a shield support handy before you do so. And don't just stand and auto.

Syndra's E is her life, if that is down she has no way to defending herself other then straight up damage. Her Q and W have windup/ travel time animations so don't walk in straight line

Look at the Q's on the ground, DON'T GO NEAR THEM, (think orianna ball but with more limitation). Don't parallel or create a space with the ball between you and her, you will just going to get stunned.

And last, her ult is single targeting, its not annie ult, and its not one shotting you like a Veigar ult

I already tried to explain this to them. Apparently no one should have to itemize against her or keep up the spheres she has around because she's "always casting them". Because ya know, she has infinite mana at level 6.

SwiftKitten881 votes

i read until he started using "op.gg stats" as relevant data.

that site looks at about .1% of the data out there ignoring the other 99.9%

by limiting itself the korea plat+

therefore any arguments made based on erroneous data are null and void

Sir Rouge10 votes

Stat sites are usually plat+.

You can look at other sites for NA, EUW etc. Data is very similar for Syndra.

LankPants7 votes

Use any site then. Syndra's abysmal on all of them.

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