How does a Tank itemize against this?

taleofsonata·Oct 7, 2018·10 votes·6,337 views

How does one itemize against this? https://gyazo.com/6d2fff2e31b51131059cf86472086d66 Is this just not enough to deal with him? Btw he killed me while was on him.

Thank you riot your game is truly balanced. Oh the funniest part, he didn't have conqueror :). He had press the attack.

37 Comments

Mobile PhoneOct 7, 20186 votes

? you're acting like he killed you in 2 seconds lol. You dont beat yi with a tank fam, cc/ sometimes burst is the way to go.

taleofsonataOct 7, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mobile Phone,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yXEEMMc6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-07T01:27:07.282+0000)

? you're acting like he killed you in 2 seconds lol. You dont beat yi with a tank fam, cc/ sometimes burst is the way to go.

I was with my TEAM, HE KILLED ME 1st we CCED HIM. I have to think about dealing with him, MF and Darius.

Mobile PhoneOct 7, 20186 votes

{quoted}

I was with my TEAM, HE KILLED ME 1st we CCED HIM. I have to think about dealing with him, MF and Darius.

the mf and darius did literally no dmg to you that teamfight LOL wym. Wait no wonder he never died, yall had literally no damage. Your cait adc at 43 minutes btw, had the least damage in the game and only 4 items. Literally you as full tank nunu did 15k more.

Also nobody has exhaust on your team.

taleofsonataOct 7, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mobile Phone,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yXEEMMc6,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-07T01:35:56.186+0000)

the mf and darius did literally no dmg to you that teamfight LOL wym. Wait no wonder he never died, yall had literally no damage. Your cait adc at 43 minutes btw, had the least damage in the game and only 4 items. Literally you as full tank nunu did 15k more.

Probably all the damage was from thornmail Lol. He had exhaust on him soo its 40% less damage, and he had red smite on him. This game is soo balanced.

Mobile PhoneOct 7, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Probably all the damage was from thornmail Lol. He had exhaust on him soo its 40% less damage, and he had red smite on him. This game is soo balanced.

No, https://gyazo.com/21a6c936e9ba69bd6ad630bf0c6ee517

Literally nobody on your team has exhaust or Spellbook, also redsmite only reduces his damage onto you and you built relatively low health.

Yeah soo balanced let me build armor against someone who is going for true dmg xd.

He also didnt have bloodthirster until after yall died in the last minute of the game.

Jennifer420Oct 7, 20183 votes

as ppl alrdy mentioned... your entire team had no dmg at all. he didnt even have lifesteal and still you couldnt kill him. and he went onhit so yeah. you cant do much vs true dmg. ofc if noone can burst him down, he will faceroll over your team. thats his job.

taleofsonataOct 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

as ppl alrdy mentioned... your entire team had no dmg at all. he didnt even have lifesteal and still you couldnt kill him. and he went onhit so yeah. you cant do much vs true dmg. ofc if noone can burst him down, he will faceroll over your team. thats his job.

He had bloodthirsty...

Jennifer420Oct 7, 20181 votes

b e glad he didnt have botrk lol

Need Gold 4 TentOct 7, 20185 votes

{quoted}

He had bloodthirsty...

Which does jackshit on non-crit build Yi. On top of that, Conqueror (which he's likely taking for on-hit) converts even part of the base AA damage into true damage that cannot be lifestealed. The only way on-hit Yi gets sustain is through ravenous hunter, and if he's trolling, gunblade.

Edit: And the pic you showed didn't even have a BT in it.

RewtOct 7, 20182 votes

His damage is Flat True damage. (As in its not %MaxHP)

So In your sitation you should have gotten a item 3083 In place of either the item 3075 or the item 3110 .

The Reason for this is because his True damage is flat based on his damage, The best way to itemize against it is with HP. and Warmogs is the single highest HP boosting item.

Now I dont know the rest of the enemy team comp, so I dont know what the correct item to replace would be, but if we just look at Yi. He had no Lifesteal so GW isnt as useful as the Attack Speed Reduction of FH.

So If the enemy team didnt have very many people using Lifesteal then GW doesnt make as much sense and so I would drop the Thornmail, but if they had an ADC that was popping the fuck off and had lifesteal then the GW of Thornmail would make sense.

In that build you had 240 bonus armor on top of likely 50 base? dont know what champ you were playing. So you had about 290 armor.

Resistances have Diminishing returns and the soft cap is at 200. 200 armor is 70% damage reduction. But to get another 5% damage reduction you need something like another 100 armor. So it doesnt make sense to go over 200 by a ton unless they are just stacking the fuck outta pen.

Also You had very little HP. you only had 1100 + Cinderhulk. So you didnt have much HP backing up those resistances.

Resists are meaningless without HP to back them up. This is why warmogs is such an important item. if you dropped the FH for the Warmogs you would have gotten another 800HP. So you would have 1900 Bonus HP and so he would have more HP he had to cut through with his flat True damage. Also giving you time to CC him more for your team to kill his ass. Not to mention it allows you to skirmish and play frontline for your team more efficiently due to the Warmog's heart passive.

DearPearOct 7, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Resistances have Diminishing returns and the soft cap is at 200. 200 armor is 70% damage reduction. But to get another 5% damage reduction you need something like another 100 armor. So it doesnt make sense to go over 200 by a ton unless they are just stacking the fuck outta pen.

Bullshit and wrong maths.

FertsaOct 7, 20183 votes

iirc the formula for armor is 100/(100+Armor) meaning 100% damage taken at 0 armor, 33.3% damage taken at 200 armor 9% damage taken at some crazy 1000 armor situation

so with that build and assuming your champion has 0 sources of armor other than items, you would take 27.7% of regular incoming physical damage, however this does nothing against true damage, magic damage, or the damage evidently being converted to true damage by conquerer

260 armor doesn't even cause 50 reflect damage from thornmail, and that's before MR reductions on the attacker

Though last statement, Master Yi is a hyper carry and if he has 6 items ur screwed unless u have a stupid amount of CC and/or burst

InTheoryOct 7, 20181 votes

0.09 or 9% (just to prevent someone misreading without checking this)

FertsaOct 7, 20181 votes

good catch i was a bit tired when i wrote that

RewtOct 7, 20181 votes

the difference between 200 armor and 300 armor is 8 1/3%. Being 33 1/3% damage reduction and 25% damage reduction respectively.

I was rough estimating with 5%, but my point still stands. While its not TECHNICALLY diminishing returns, that is the easiest way to think about it. As the amount of % reduction you gain for each point of armor gradually reduces as you increase in number.

Easy way to see this. at 0 armor you take 100% damage. At 50 armor you take 66 2/3% damage. at 100 armor you take 50% damage. At 150 armor you take 40% damage. at 200 armor you take 33 1/3% damage. at 250 armor you take 28.57% damage and at 300 armor you take 25% damage.

Here are the % damage reduction gains for every 50 armor.

0%, 33 1/3%, 16 2/3%, 10%, 6 2/3%, Roughly 4 3/4%, Roughly 3 1/2%.

While technically not Diminishing returns the general concept is still sound when trying to explain something without going into 3-4 paragraphs worth of math and explanation. I wont explain why this is the case, just go to the wiki and read it yourself.

DearPearOct 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I was rough estimating with 5%, but my point still stands. While its not TECHNICALLY diminishing returns, that is the easiest way to think about it. As the amount of % reduction you gain for each point of armor gradually reduces as you increase in number.

Because seeing a MULTIPLICATIVE value as an ADDITIVE value is sooo relevant...

Of course the amount of % reduction you gain for each added point of armor do reduces, or else you would end up with > 100% damage reduction which grants infinite survival against physical damage. Gaining the same amount of % damage reduction for the same amount of armor would make armor give an exponential survival.

{quoted}

While technically not Diminishing returns the general concept is still sound when trying to explain something without going into 3-4 paragraphs worth of math and explanation. I wont explain why this is the case, just go to the wiki and read it yourself.

Dude, I've done all the maths way before the wiki was even a thing. Your claim that it has diminishing returns is plain wrong and that's just it. You don't get to interpret multiplicative values as additive values to claim such thing.

nm1010Oct 7, 20182 votes

Resistances have Diminishing returns

No they don’t

RewtOct 7, 20181 votes

While it is not Technically diminishing returns, its the easiest way to think about it. Now im going to show you the math for why it is similar to diminishing returns. For reference the equation is 100/(100+armor)

Here are the % damage reduction gains for every 50 armor.

0%, 33 1/3%, 16 2/3%, 10%, 6 2/3%, Roughly 4 3/4%, Roughly 3 1/2%.

nm1010Oct 8, 20181 votes

Armor and mr in no way have diminishing returns, I have written exhaustive math on this dozens of times in the past 2-3 years. The general concept is NOT sound, 1 armor equals 1% effective health increase.

The equation you referenced is related to % damage reduction you get from armor, which has nothing to do with the actual armor efficiency. This is the ratio of actual health to your total effective health, nothing more. Forgive the briefness on the subject (I’m on mobile), but you clearly know the wiki page so I’d suggest you read it closely to understand what these formulas mean.

PopcornBunniOct 7, 20183 votes

Resistances don't have diminishing returns. Damage just outscales it with raw gold value due to base defenses on damage roles being much higher relative to the base AD of tanks.

The net result is with 300 AD vs 300 AR, the AD wins because with just their base armor they outtrade the tank.

Bronze 6 YasuoOct 7, 20182 votes

Don’t try to fight him especially when he’s full build. Yi is weak when you team is together because your team can easily cc and burst him. Yi is melee so he has to get close so if you are with your team and the Yi is dumb enough to think he can 1v5 you will win.

Tahminatrix Oct 7, 20182 votes

item 3193 for more hp item 3190 for a big shield that not even true damage can penetrate.

Use gargoyle then locket right after and you will last considerably longer against him.

If you do it right you can cc him, gargoyle locket then cc him again then he kills you.

Also bear in mind that every second you survive while his W is doing true damage and he is in ult is a second that his W starts to tick away along with his item 3508

5h4DovvOct 7, 20181 votes

Your team didn't have enough CC to handle him. Also, don't duel him if: you have no CC/ You have no burst/ You have no team mates. That build is meant to be a tank shredder build. Why do you complain when it does what it is meant to do - shred tanks?

I assume he capitalized in your team lack of damage/CC. He lacked lifesteal and any hard tanking item.

Pika FoxOct 7, 20181 votes

CC. He has massive DPS because he has 0 defense and is melee.

Stars ShaperOct 7, 20181 votes

How is intargettability with CD reset, slow immunity and Heal scaling on misisng health = no defenses?

Pika FoxOct 7, 20181 votes

Because yi will die to a stray auto attack smacking him in the face. He is squishy as fuck.

Stars ShaperOct 7, 20181 votes

Some champions are specialized in Tank killing, just peel Yi as much as you are allowed to (Alpha Strike lulz) and hope that there is a Mage/Assa/Marks able to bishot him.

Lovelle IIOct 7, 20181 votes

You don't, you just land a stun or knock-up on him and watch him explode in 0.5 sec to 1k ranged auto-attacks and burst. If you're in a 1v1 situation against Yi late game as a tank, then you messed up somewhere.

GayFluffyUnicornOct 7, 20181 votes

It took yi 8 seconds to kill you? Better question is; What are NON YI champs supposed to do against the retardery that are tanks?

XeroKimoOct 7, 20181 votes

I mean it took him 7.54 seconds to kill you, and tanks aren't made to kill champions they just disrupt the enemy team and hope they focus you while disrupting them as your team attacks, if you think you should live longer against a champion that melts tanks in a 1 v 1 then that's pretty messed up.

Still though yi is like the champ you can't ever outduel I'd wish they'd change that

ThefrostyvikingOct 7, 20181 votes

OP the only solution to beating Yi is to murder him before he murders your side.

I just played against one as Shyv, i stomped his head so hard he was nailed into the ground with nothing left above it.

Even lategame at 4+ items i still crushed him, and he had item 3124 item 1419 item 3153 item 3047 and item 3742 at that point.

So why did i beat him even then?

Because he exploded from my damage before he got more than 3 autos off with rageblade stacked.

Just passively defending against a hypercarry with true damage will and has never worked, killing them off is the only answer.

Jaygo41Oct 7, 20181 votes

You don't.

Oh tanks are overpowered, by the way, according to all the Vayne and Yasuo players

Daddy AntsOct 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You don't.

Oh tanks are overpowered, by the way, according to all the Vayne and Yasuo players

The only people that say Tanks are OP is Hashinshin or Assassin/Mage mains.

Daddy AntsOct 7, 20181 votes

8 seconds to do 5,000 damage?

That's not that fast.

I've had Zeds, Talon's and Rengars do like 2000 in less than 1 second.

meowwow7Oct 7, 20181 votes

the yi didn't have any %hp dmg built or crit built so you could have just swapped item 3143 for item 3083 since you already got the static and aura of cold steel from item 3075 item 3110 , and that amount of armor is pretty redundant considering at 200 armor you get 70% physical dmg reduction before armor pen