I Feel Like Illaoi is Going to Become the Next Reksai

Prospector Pete·Nov 25, 2015·113 votes·6,862 views

She's going to be overnerfed and become a tank instead of a fighter.

110 Comments

The LovelessNov 25, 201537 votes

She offers nothing as a tank except pulling souls. Rek at least has "tunnel vision" and a knockup. Illaoi has nothing but damage in her kit--not even innate tankiness.

Her heal doesn't count as tankiness, unless you want to call Kindred and Morgana tanks too.

Edit: I agree lol

PennsNov 25, 201511 votes

Her heal is % missing HP so it kinda does

TehNACHONov 26, 20155 votes

To add context:

Kindred has a flat heal. In actually, she gets more mileage out of it never building bonus health ever. Furthermore, Morgana's scales with damage, not stacking health.

In the case of %missing HP, the the more health Illaoi has, the more you heal per cent.

SpoofghoulNov 25, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Loveless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVtPUm4y,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-11-25T19:30:05.283+0000)

She offers nothing as a tank except pulling souls. Rek at least has "tunnel vision" and a knockup. Illaoi has nothing but damage in her kit--not even innate tankiness.

Her heal doesn't count as tankiness, unless you want to call Kindred and Morgana tanks too.

Edit: I agree lol

no innate tankyness? highest base armor is not innate tankyness? dude come on

Shield VillainNov 26, 20154 votes

Her starting base armor is 26 from what I can tell, and 90 at 18. Nocturne has 27 at lv 1 and 86 at 18, doesn't mean you should always chose Tank Nocturne over assassin. Illaoi is very clearly intended to be a bruiser.

Primary: Fighter Secondary: Tank

Penta PenguinNov 26, 20155 votes

Being a "tank" means you have staying power in a fight and are a threat through means of CC or peeling, you put the enemy in a catch-22 where they can't ignore you because of what you can do, but if they attack you you're just too tough to take down, while the rest of your team gets the job done uninhibited.

UrPalAlNov 26, 20154 votes

You know, Jayce has 116.9 base armor, and 60 base MR at level 18 (he gains passive armor), he also has a 20% MAX HP knockback ability, and an infinite 55% slow on a 3 second cooldown, and you don't see anyone playing Jayce tank now do you? We see the complete opposite actually.

Dunkrius2gNov 27, 20151 votes

You know, Jayce has 116.9 base armor, and 60 base MR at level 18 (he gains passive armor)

Technically, he gains that armor as bonus armor, not counting towards his "base" armor.

Second thing is, he must be in hammer form to gain that armor. 3rd he gets 30 base MR and gains 35 MR as bonus MR for being in Hammer Form with lv 16 R (same for armor), not base armor. Very minor detail. Otherwise items like item 3036 item 3033 will pierce nothing if the armor goes towards his base armor but in this case, it will pierce 14 armor.

Jayce's To The Skies! (Q in Hammer form) infinite slow is only possible if Jayce plays him as a melee champ, but he cant perma slow someone because he gotta change to his cannon and switch out for stronger burst. His ult is on a 6 sec cd (no cdr, 3.3 sec on 45% cdr).

Just extra information.

UrPalAlNov 27, 20151 votes

IK, but it's funner to say it that way, especially in a champ like Jayce, you can make his kit sound like the most broken thing in the game if you say it the right way. I'm a Jayce main (check my account lol, played him for a couple years now I believe.) Though I sometimes do wish I could play him as a tank since his hammer stance feels so tanky. >.<

TenSlashTenNov 26, 20151 votes

heal broken 300+ r burst at rank 1 is broken. Will be gutted. theres no question.

Thevoidwalker336Nov 26, 20155 votes

{quoted}

heal broken 300+ r burst at rank 1 is broken. Will be gutted. theres no question.

lol shes so easy to kite n dodge skills shots....she needs a speed buff on her q n tens. Also her dam vessal needs fixed too its so worthless with a smart enemy who just leaves the area, the tens are so easy to dodge its pathetic

MelledoneusNov 26, 20151 votes

She tends to be oppressive in the mid lane. Especially when your Lee Sin gives her first blood and red buff.

SpellFlingerNov 27, 20151 votes

she is easier to deal with in mid lane really,at least from my experience. because most mid laners can kite easily or have good ranged attacks which is a major weakness for her. Easy to dodge her abilities, and even if she grabs out your soul and kills it, its an annoyance more than a real threat.

MelledoneusNov 27, 20151 votes

When you play immobile mages like Viktor, minion block makes it so hard to block her harass, and she wins every single trade. It doesn't help when the enemy Blitzcrank lives in the mid lane wih her.

DurzakaNov 26, 20152 votes

Agreed. If she gets nerfed like Rek'sai, she will be absolute trash.

She doesnt actually have any threat in a fight without damage.

A LiberalNov 25, 201520 votes

Illaoi is kind of crazy right now. I think they need to reduce her tentacle spawn rate, and also reduce the amount of tentacles killed to get rid of e debuff. That said, shes a monster in top and jungle, but in support.... oh god she is horrifying. You can't do anything until a jungler comes. I thought Hiemer was a lane bully...

MetalGearTeemuNov 25, 20155 votes

well she is basically Heimer 2.0 but with Darius healing and gap closers...

So its not surprising.

she needs her self healing toned down though, she builds 3 bruiser items and out-tanks most full tanks in teamfights while challenging the AP's for AOE damage output.

kaltenashesNov 26, 20155 votes

she has NONE gap closers

MetalGearTeemuNov 26, 20152 votes

I don't know how to read my skills.

by this guy.

Go look at her tools, then look at the cooldown her tools get when she ults.

I think you can understnad how she stays on targets...

Fiora operates much the same. And she's got a rep as the stickiest.

AlleoNov 26, 20153 votes

I think he means by having no gap closer he means not a reliable one, it has super short range and requires you to be moving faster than the person you are chasing..easier said than done.

plantersNov 25, 20152 votes

Actually I had a game (I was support) where my jungler did come and we got too close to their turret and walls during the gank. She then proceeded to ult. Surprisingly our ADC survived with less than 20 HP. me and jg were not so lucky. the problem is not just the spawn rate or the debuff. it's also how many she can have out at any time. That combined with her soul ability makes dealing with her more than a little oppressive.

MetalGearTeemuNov 26, 20154 votes

it would be nice if the tentacle hurtboxes matched the ground indicators too, they're considerably wider then you think looking at them.

AlleoNov 26, 20151 votes

The indicator is fine, the model makes you think you can get out of it but then you have a foot in the box and get hit.

spavinedNov 26, 20152 votes

im pretty sure while the normal tentacles hitboxes are incorrect, her q is wider than it displays

l MrD lNov 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Illaoi is kind of crazy right now. I think they need to reduce her tentacle spawn rate, and also reduce the amount of tentacles killed to get rid of e debuff. That said, shes a monster in top and jungle, but in support.... oh god she is horrifying. You can't do anything until a jungler comes. I thought Hiemer was a lane bully...

Shes not that bad. Her E can be blockedby minions but also if you do become a vessel her tentacles are easy to dodge. I say everything in her kit is balanced but the ult needs a minor nerf to its damage. Also about the tentacles they only hit you if illaoi casts W in anarea or you become a vessel but they should be really easy to predict. I feel like that people say shes OP because shes new and not many peopleknow what todo against herbut after paying her for a few games she doesn't feel that strong at all especially when the enemy knows what theyre doing. I still say darius is way worse than illaoi

SeveredKidsFeetNov 25, 20157 votes

just like the poppy rework!

Only Play DariusNov 26, 20157 votes

In all honesty I like Illaoi. I haven't even played her but from my experience, she's actually not that bad to play against. She doesn't have hard CC, most of her damage is telegraphed, and if you keep killing the tentacles you can reduce her harass potential considerably. I think she's fine where she is, and I will be buying her once her price drops.

And I hate Riot for what they did to Rek'Sai. RIP AD Rek'Sai, now you get reported for trolling if you build so much as ravenous hydra (which used to be core on her)

Ryzing2DiamondNov 26, 20152 votes

Give this man a medal. I've completely dominated all but one Illaoi i've played against as Ryze.

doombotMECHANov 26, 20151 votes

same. even tho I'm mostly a melee guy, i can just break ill's leash then just play whack-a-tentacle for 15 free gold. also, if ur adc gets vessel'd and is good with positioning (like say a draven) you get free gold every x seconds for a minute, or vice versa

Shac NorrisNov 25, 20155 votes

Shhhh!!

Don't give them ideas!

Itadaki SeiekiNov 25, 20154 votes

I can play her like I play Support Rek'sai.

She's completely broken in the sense her spirit works with Relic Shield, thusly making the enemy ADC unable to recall/cs fairly unless they waste their time killing tentacles while the minions die, thusly reducing the gold income significantly.

It's not fun, in fact it's the opposite of fun.

DorkunedAurasNov 26, 20151 votes

Support Rek'Sai? I'm intrigued, tell me more.

kaltenashesNov 26, 20151 votes

it was a thing, even ap rek sai was a thing, but got nerfed

DorkunedAurasNov 26, 20151 votes

I know about AP Rek'Sai, with her 1.0 Ratio 3.6 Second 1200 Range no cost Prey Seeker. Totally reasonable.

I'm not sure how Rek'Sai support works though.

kaltenashesNov 26, 20151 votes

i think that she burrows and throws her projectiles all the time, and when she's able, she knock enemies up to set up ganks

DorkunedAurasNov 26, 20152 votes

Thing is, that knockup has an 8 second cooldown per target, She has little innate tankiness, her sustain requires her to AA minions a lot, and her knockup is her entire set of CC. I just don't think she offers enough to a duo lane to be worth.

Small TiddiesNov 26, 20154 votes

The Tent curse is pretty fucking annoying. VERY much when your friends last hit them. Just to make you suffer.

LigerzzNov 26, 20152 votes

THE RATIOS MAAAAAAN!!!

Magister GirNov 26, 20153 votes

exactly! That's her issue, the ratio's are way too dam high for so much AoE. Tone down the ratio's and she'll be perfectly fine IMO.

Obiwan JhinobiNov 26, 20151 votes

What "ratio" would YOU see as balanced with a base dmg of 10-180(lvl 1-18) on tentacels(including q!) and a base dmg of 95 at rank 5 on w?

And remeber that the w has a very short range and her q has a long cast-time

Magister GirNov 27, 20151 votes

I don't know, I don't run that department nor would I be able to make a wise change to it. What I do know is that the ratio's on her abilities are extremely high for a bruiser especially with so much aoe.

Señor KarthusNov 26, 20152 votes

And still Reksai is a regular pick on LCS. Finding the best and most optimal way to build a Champ doesn't deprive them from what they can offer.

Pale PirateNov 26, 20152 votes

I doubt it. When riot made rek'sai, the obviously had no idea how she would end up playing out. Whatever the reason for this inexplicable mistake, it does not seem to be the case with illaoi.

Solidair3Nov 26, 20152 votes

I disagree. She doesn't have the cc rek'sai has to pull off being a tank.

The best she can do is slow with her E.

BlackxHokageNov 26, 20152 votes

If everyone could just understand that Illioai is SUPPOSED to be 1v2 in and doing crazy damage you'll understand why she probably won't be nerves in the near future. She's just like Darius if Darius is winning lane he doesn't mind if a jungle comes if he has ult it's a easy double . Same for illaoi she was made to be a lane bully and annoying so she won't be nerves you guys just have to get used to her

MunchCrunchLunchNov 26, 20151 votes

she def needs a nerf. not in terms of how much damage she does. but her style is BS to be honest. its too much. there needs to be some restrictions on her E. and there needs to be a limit to her tentacles. thats all i want.

ShahamutNov 26, 20153 votes

Her E can be blocked by minions. That's pretty limiting since lane is her strongest phase. Her tentacles only slap down in specific situations. They are also very telegraphed and easy to dodge.

She hasn't been out long. People will figure her out, then she will be less of an issue.

RISE Shlack123Nov 26, 20151 votes

People figuring out how to play against her will be balanced against people figuring out how to play her.

Sure, there are ways to dodge her abilities, but they aren't pronounced enough to justify how overbearing she is. Yes, you can dodge her E, but she will have it back up again soon. You can't hope to dodge all of them - that's not how you justify allowing a champion to have an overbearing kit. They WILL hit their abilities at some point, and when they do, you are severely punished for it. Illaoi currently has 2 abilities that could be considered ultimate. And her sustain in teamfights is downright ludicrous.

Yes, you can block her E behind minions. But that's the only ability that you can hide behind minions to dodge. And her W is targeted and will bring all her nearby tentacles (which spawn every 15s) down on you. And if you try to get out and kill the tentacles, you open yourself up to her E. So you can't hide behind minions all lane phase because she will just use her W plus her passive to dominate you.

tl;dr your rationale doesn't justify her overpowered kit

ShahamutNov 27, 20151 votes

All Im saying is that I have had ZERO problems playing against her thus far. Ive done ok to good playing as her, but I still attribute that to people just being unaware.

She has next to zero mobility (only a small leap that has to target an enemy) and pretty much no cc (only a short VERY situational slow). Her moves are ALL very telegraphed, and thus very easy to dodge.

She is a juggernaut, which by RIOT's definition of one, says she will screw you if you let her get on you. She also can't do absurd amounts of damage if she builds tank, unlike say, Darius.

Just keep playing, Im confident you can figure this out.

Don't group up really tight during team fights, choose fights that are not right next to her tentacles, or have your team clear them before you engage.

Absolutely HAVE to trash her in lane? Play Quinn or Vayne. GG

HxC ManickmonkeyNov 27, 20151 votes

i agree her E has all the limits of a blitz grab AKA "deathtouch" her W second part can be easily dodged she even tells you how "MOVE!" (riot even made a little game to teach you how to counter her) and common ever seen dunk master darius in action. just dodge and kill a few tentacles if she lands her E and you should be all good as for balanced well that remains to be seen, i do love that she can be pushed under turret and still get a decent amount of farm though plus her tentacles = a fair amount of gold through the course of the game if you clear them all plus you all ways know when she is hiding in the bushes her pets betray he presence