if kog'maw is a late game champion, why does his winrate drop after 35min mark?
Champion.gg - Kog'Maw ADC Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters
just wondering what the possibilities could be
32 Comments
ABlueQuaker9 votesChampions don't scale like they used to. You just have Balanced (i.e. balanced amount of Utility, CC/Tankiness and Damage) and Unbalanced Team Comps. Even champions that 'fall off' don't actually fall off at all. Their role in the comp just shifts as the game progresses.
If you pick Kog and you have no peel, you lose late because you have an unbalanced comp. Teams don't outscale each other anymore - late game simply reveals which comp is better constructed.
dunder kill7 votesBecause he's extremely risky with no mobility. Dont forget you also have full build mages and assassins gunning for you at this point too
NodirjonSattarov1 votesjust need to give him invisibility to do as well as twitch or vayne late game ^-^
dunder kill5 votesComparing him to Vayne is moot. I doubt you would want to reduce his range to 550 to pick up invisibility. Twitch has camouflage, not invisibility.
NodirjonSattarov1 voteshad to look up what moot means :c
kog range is conditional and is gated by cooldowns and mana. vayne has 50 range over kog'maw, hard cc and mobility on 2 of her abilities. i thiink that her true damage scales beautifully and is a better tank shredder than the tank shredder himself, kog'maw.
i think twitch camouflage activates way too fast. almost seems like 1 second of him not being damaged lets him go into it
dunder kill4 votesSorry but you're not going to persuade anyone that Kog has less range than Vayne lol. You're beginning to just sound like a biased main at this point.
Jmman1 votesdepends on what your talking about AA range or his ult range?
Vayne 550 auto range Kog 500 auto range
This are just what I can find online. I do think Kog is weaker. Mobility is the big elephant in the room. A lot of the "OP" or stronger champs all have it. kinda makes we wonder how much weight this has with balancing.
dunder kill4 votes....both.....
Kog has 710 AA range with his W up
Jmman1 votesah I see we can use other abilities now.
What is vanye range after the tumble to you and attack. I believe its far greater than 710. Point still stands for what you have to give up as kog early he might need some QOL late game so he doesn't always get instant blicked. I found it funny that people are like no your champ can't be strong tooo. only mine can and see RITO bronze testers agree with me.
But kog doesn't have the escape or cc vanye has.
dunder kill4 votesWhat is vanye range after the tumble to you and attack
Lmao still 550. She has to tumble into that 550 range. She doesnt gain any range from her Q. She still has to be within 550 range to auto attack
Jmman1 votesSo the tumble didn't move her..... i could have swore she used it as a gap closer. So she can't gap close on someone where range doesn't matter.... got it.
For the record I think both are easy to lane against. but I do think KOG has a more frustrating time early mid and late game.
Maybe you can explain the lower win rate for the late game champ then.
dunder kill4 votesJesus christ dude what dont you get? Vayne can use her tumble to get into her 550 range, but she still has to physically be within 550 range. Kog can use his W and physically be 710 range away. This isnt difficult
Jmman1 votesI understand but Kog W will end. Vanye will still be in range. I don't care either way but I don't understand why you can't see his point at all. Heck I don't play either but I have an adc friend that does. As a support I much rather have a Vanye. Kog dies too easy.
And i'll quote my friend..... "sorry dude I can't do anything until my W is up. Getting that close is auto dead." Now Vanye doesn't have this problem... Does vanye say "crap I can't do anything unless my ult or roll is up.... NO she can still kill you..
Now is it the most broken thing in LoL atm NO. But don't reply back to me. I'm done talking with you. From a neutral point in the issue you are hopeless.... Its like you don't know how to think out side the box or look at the bigger picture.
I told you how Vanye did have longer AA than kog and now you won't let it be. BYE good luck life. You will need it.
dunder kill3 votes"I'm gonna say I understand but I actually dont understand"
More or less what you just said.
dunder kill2 votesBio-Arcane Barrage
ACTIVE: For 8 seconds, Kog'Maw's attacks gain bonus range and deals bonus magic damage on-hit, capped at 100 against minions and monsters.
Vayne's Q?
Tumble
ACTIVE: Vayne quickly rolls toward the cursor's location, causing her next basic attack within 7 seconds to deal bonus physical damage (interacts with critical strike chance and with critical strike damage).
SHE. GAINS. NO. RANGE. She has to position herself into the 550 range to attack. That is NOT the same as attacking from 710 range. Do you get this yet? It is NOT the same. Want to also factor in that Kog's Q has 1175 range, his W has 710, his E has 1280 range, and his R has 1800 range? Or are you done?
Luigrein1 votesI feel like this is ongoing because people mean different things by range? The actual range of their auto attacks and the range that they threaten are not necessarily the same, this is where mobility becomes a big deal for more than just Vayne and Kog.
Kog's range of "you must be this far away to stop me from going in on you" is actually shorter than Vayne's, for the purposes of going in on someone she can effectively add tumbles distance to her attack range. However Kog's "I can stay this far away and still attack you" range is higher. Additionally, Kog can poke outside of his attack range, although the damage is comparatively low.
NodirjonSattarov1 votesi'm not saying he has less range, i'm saying its conditional. additionally, mobility is superior to range imo
dunder kill4 votesThats your opinion. The numbers however say this
49% WR / 9% pick rate
53% WR / 9% pick rate
There are other factors going on outside of "mobility is superior"
Kog is more than fine
Rebonack2 votesBecause Kog is, and always has been, a champ with a crappy early game, powerful mid game, and passable late game. He's not a true hyper-scaler like Twitch or Vayne. This is as it should be, since it's the only way for the whole 'Protect the Kog' team comp to work. If Kog's damage isn't kicking in by the time team-fights are beginning in earnest there's no reason to build a team around him.
FiddlesOnTheRoof1 votesDon't most marksmen fall off in win rate super late game?
no to toxic1 votesKogs winrate drops because he builds on-hit. On-hit scales horribly but gives the strongest bonuses when you get them since with the exception of rageblade every on-hit item doesnt require other items to be effective. This means KogMaw isnt a late game champ but a early to mid game one.
VoraciousX1 votes[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVEw8PPn,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-04-17T23:03:15.770+0000)
Kog
s winrate drops because he builds on-hit. On-hit scales horribly but gives the strongest bonuses when you get them since with the exception of rageblade every on-hit item doesnt require other items to be effective. This means KogMaw isnt a late game champ but a early to mid game one.
Ummm...on hit requires attack speed and that is how it scales (and why Kayle is considered a late game champ and is a monster when late game hits). This is also why Vayne used to be a late game hyper carry because she built on hit as well. Now she doesn't get that 2.5 attack speed and relies on crit and her q to deal all her damage. She is better earlier into the game because of her new build path. Blade of the Ruined King lost a lot of attack speed and that could be part of the reason. He doesn't vomit 2.5 attacks every second anymore because Riot has slowly but surely reduced attack speed at every turn. They have some kind of hard on for crit. Hence why they're trying to make every adc scale with it. If you think about it Kogmaw is pretty much the only non-crit based adc now. I'd say this is why his win rate is going down. ADC now is about burst damage pretty much. Whoever can kill someone in 2 autos wins while someone who has ramping damage loses because they can't.
Kayle is pretty much the only decent on hit user now because all of her items haven't lost any attack speed and she has her ult and heal to ensure she is able to last long enough to shred a team's hp. I expect her to suffer a bit after the mid season update because they're nerfing attack speed on runaan's(and removing its on hit damage) which actually is an item Kayle gets in most situations. But yeah. When's the last time you saw anyone besides Kayle get 2.5 attack speed? Guarantee you it has been quite a while. Riot seems to think on hit is cancerous for the game while critting people for 1.2k is healthy. I'd much rather have old Vayne condemn me into a wall and shred my hp down with on hit, at least giving me time to exhaust/qss than to q me once and then auto me once instantly killing me
no to toxic1 votesDude just waifu Kayle if you love her so much. Also KogMaw gets 2,34 or more attackspeed with his actual build    . Bork isnt a good item on kog and hasnt been since his revert. Kogmaw got enough dmg on his W alone. What he needs is item wich enable him to do more dmg with his W wits end and rageblade both do that and Runaans lets him do his on-hit dmg to 3 people at once. Also Kayle and monster in late game seems like the biggest half truth there is.
VoraciousX1 votes[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVEw8PPn,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-04-18T22:35:36.139+0000)
Dude just waifu Kayle if you love her so much. Also Kog
Maw gets 2,34 or more attackspeed with his actual build    . Bork isnt a good item on kog and hasnt been since his revert. Kogmaw got enough dmg on his W alone. What he needs is item wich enable him to do more dmg with his W wits end and rageblade both do that and Runaans lets him do his on-hit dmg to 3 people at once. Also Kayle and monster in late game seems like the biggest half truth there is.
Umm....I'll just leave this here for you, since you believe that to be Kogmaw's build. Look at the core builds and tell me I'm wrong please, because this proves how people are building Kogmaw right now. Also Vayne has almost the same base attack speed with like 23% more attack speed at level 18 and I used her with the build you mentioned(And the attack speed in runes Kogmaw apparently uses) and guess how much attack speed she had? 2.24 with guinsoo's at max stacks. That's nowhere near close to 2.5 attack speed with Kogmaw(And still not even close to 2.34 like you said) who has way less attack speed than Vayne at level 18. It's not even that close with Vayne. You'd need a phantom dancer or berserker's greaves and an extra dagger(with VAYNE) to get 2.5 attack speed, but since you wouldn't want to have a random dagger in your build the best bet would be to buy a phantom dancer, since 35% isn't enough to cap out and there are no more 40% attack speed items aside from Trinity Force. Kogmaw doesn't build PD though, he DOES build trinity force, but he'll need a lot more items than Vayne to cap out at 2.5 attack speed. Also keep in mind this is LEVEL 18, and it's not that often you're gonna even be level 18 before the game ends.
As for Kayle, she needs more than Kog, and the whole "waifu Kayle if you love her so much) made absolutely no sense and had nothing to do with my statement, which was that Kayle is a monster late game compared to Kogmaw because she has tools to protect herself unlike Kogmaw, and they both need a lot of items to get to late game, Kogmaw needs to be protected by his team whereas Kayle can shred a team by herself(and no, it isn't some big half-truth, I've done plenty of times in the past). On-hit builds aren't what they used to be and it's because Riot has a hard on for crit and are trying to push it out. Why do you think Xayah has crit SCALING(it's not like crit doesn't ALREADY do something for every ADC just by doubling their damage with their autos) on one of her abilities? They don't like attack speed builds, and think it's unhealthy, while critting people for 1.2k health is apparently. Kogmaw can get blown up before he does his thing because other ADCs late game are able to dish out tons of damage in one auto whereas his damage has to ramp up. The only reason Kayle can do well despite the fact that she builds on hit is because she can keep herself from blowing up as she shreds people. Late game you don't even want to get near a Kayle. I'm only using Kayle in my argument because she's literally the only on-hit builder who will actually be relevant late game unless a protect the Kog comp is made, and even then I don't think he'd be as good as her at the job, simply because all any other ADC will need is 2-3 autos and Kogmaw's dead, while he needs several because on-hit needs to be ramped up over time while crit builds just blow you up.
no to toxic1 votes{quoted} Kogmaw doesn't build PD though, he DOES build trinity force,
I would insult myself on actually commenting on such a sentence.
VoraciousX1 votes[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVEw8PPn,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-19T12:23:21.143+0000)
I would insult myself on actually commenting on such a sentence.
I backed up my statement with facts from before. It's in one of his top 5 builds, never said he builds it that often but he DOES build it. My statement was geared towards the fact that he'd need it to reach 2.5 attack speed at this point because riot keeps nerfing attack speed on items. At least I back up my statements and don't use BS information.
no to toxic1 votesKogMaw never builds Triforce. Hitler didnt win world war 2. Communism doesn`t work.
You see the similarities beetwen those 3 statemants. They are all true.
VoraciousX2 votes[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVEw8PPn,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-19T18:08:54.497+0000)
Kog
Maw never builds Triforce. Hitler didnt win world war 2. Communism doesn`t work.You see the similarities beetwen those 3 statemants. They are all true.
He does build it. Not often but he DOES. It's in his top 5 builds in op.gg which I linked. I actually back my statements up. That honestly had barely anything to do with my argument in the first place so I don't know why you're nitpicking that when it had probably the least to do with the argument. Unless of course you're just grasping at straws to try and use that to be insulting to people make a counter argument.
no to toxic1 votesOk lets discuss on why Triforce isnt a item Kog wants/needs.
- Its expensive
- Nothing with it synergizes with Kog in a significant way since he doesn
t have the best base ad and cant spam his ult without being dry after 5 autos - Why do you build a item on Kog wich has no extra effects on it except extra dmg thats the most ineffecient way to play a on-hit champ
- Its not season 2 anymore
- Did I mentian that it
s expensive and doesnt synergize with Ruunans - Have you ever seen a Kog
Maw that isnt first time build Triforce if you did check your clock you might be talking with the future right now
VoraciousX2 votes[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yVEw8PPn,comment-id=000400000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-20T16:30:13.661+0000)
Ok let
s discuss on why Triforce isnt a item Kog wants/needs.
- Its expensive
- Nothing with it synergizes with Kog in a significant way since he doesn
t have the best base ad and cant spam his ult without being dry after 5 autos- Why do you build a item on Kog wich has no extra effects on it except extra dmg thats the most ineffecient way to play a on-hit champ
- Its not season 2 anymore
- Did I mentian that it
s expensive and doesnt synergize with Ruunans- Have you ever seen a Kog
Maw that isnt first time build Triforce if you did check your clock you might be talking with the future right now
I never said it was the best item on Kogmaw. I said that he does occasionally build it(Which I provided proof of) Let's not forget that he doesn't have enough attack speed items that DO synergize with him to get 2.5 attack speed because Riot is constantly nerfing the stat on on-hit items. That was my entire point, that you don't get enough attack speed from 3 items. The only two items you could build are TF or PD. TF is more likely. Also it's not terrible as a 4th attack speed item because once you can use it once your w goes down (and on the initial cast)
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