i never feel outplayed in this game anymore

NodirjonSattarov·Jan 3, 2019·94 votes·18,978 views

everything occurs too fast for there to be any counter play

74 Comments

NetorareJan 3, 201936 votes

Too bad assassins are not allowed to be tuned down because they are "weak"...

Dr DogJan 3, 201921 votes

mostly ya, they are, tho kha zix and leblanc need nerfs outside of that most assassins are pretty eh and dont need any nerfs

StraconyJan 3, 201922 votes

You got to be kidding. I can litrally walk away from my keyboard while playing Talon and still get a kill.

Dr DogJan 3, 20197 votes

because assassins are easy to get kills with and usually do get a lot of kills, but kills have nothing to do with how useful you are to a team and talon mid game without a lead or late game in general is useless

DyrreahJan 4, 20192 votes

Exactly. Had many games where an enemy assassin went apeshit but couldn't do shit in teamfights. In soloq its usually considered lost because people don't group up. ofc a zed can get a kill 2v1 or 1v1 but in a 4v1 its a very different story since most of them aren't LL Stylish. Moreover, pretty much none of them.

AndevarJan 4, 20194 votes

Why don't you play him to climb then if he's so easy? Why does he have a 50% win rate with a low play rate if he's so easy?

Making false assumptions without actual proof is all I see on the boards these days, especially when it's a meta heavily supporting laning champs and mages rather than roaming assassins.

StraconyJan 4, 20197 votes

I did play him. The only reason I don't anymore because playing this game is like injecting rat poison directly into my veins.

dude... cut your fucking shit out. Every single game as Talon at level 2 I would easily get first blood. As soon as I reached 3 I was ungankable.

It's got nothing to do with the opponent playing badly or whatever excuse you wanna come up with. It's got everything to do with Damage being absolutely absurd accompanied with champs with to much of a safe kit. Literally my condition to get the lvl 2 first blood was to all in the second they try to CS. That's just fundamentally unhealthy from a game design standpoint.

AndevarJan 4, 20192 votes

Then why don't play him to climb? Literally complain about him being so easy, but he's one of the worst off assassins right now.

Also, you're playing in silver 4, it's not hard to get first blood as Talon. No one has the IQ to dodge your second W, or to know how to properly counter Talon.

Being downvoted by mage circlejerk is great.

Meat Beat ManiaJan 4, 20192 votes

He's been silver for 6 years. That's just one of those elos where anything works and anything that has a decent laning phase is op compared to another silver player.

StraconyJan 4, 20194 votes

Been playing since beta, I have many accounts. All at varying levels of play, I've coached multiple players in my time so that's why i have numerous accounts. I would post on my main If the over zealous forum Mods hadn't banned my account for varying levels of misunderstanding sarcasm... also i can lose my patience with stupid people... so i'm not innocent, just honest. lol.
As soon as you mention some ones rank, you automatically lose the argument. No. STFU. Nothing can say can justify The underlining statement of "you are this rank, therefore your statement is void" Fuck you and your childish shit for thinking that.
I hate ranked. In season 3 I stopped when i reached plat. That's all i cared at the time about, I reached my milestone and I was done with it all on my main account. I quickly realised the ranked system is a deeply unfair and a cesspool for griefers to spread their toxic shit. Why the fuck would I want to subject myself to that? Why the fuck after coming home from work would I choose to subject myself to countless hours of wasted time over seeing my wife? And why would I play now for that matter when the whole system is 1000 times worse than what it used to be unless I want to play with friends and carry on teaching them how to play?

Even then, I stopped playing. Because this game has gone to shit to the point where i would rather drink bleach than play.

AndevarJan 5, 20192 votes

Your argument was invalidated by one sentence.

"Even then, I stopped playing."

You can't criticize game balance if you don't play the game in the first place.

StraconyJan 5, 20193 votes

[deleted]

AndevarJan 5, 20192 votes

Imagine having to resort to insults to win arguments over a game.

Grow up man, I was just stating that if you don't even play the game, you don't have a right to judge it. Just like how game reviewers have to actually play the game to review it, instead of making claims they've only seen, rather than experienced.

Meat Beat ManiaJan 7, 20191 votes

Plat is pretty mediocre and that was 5 or 6 years ago
Your rank determines the players you go against low elo players don't play the game well. This means they either don't know counterplay, don't try to counterplay, or just don't play well enough for any sort of counterplay to be effective. (i.e. An Ahri losing lane in silver is a lot less likely to build armor vs a Talon, an Ahri losing lane in silver is a lot less likely to ping the roam of a Talon, an Ahri in silver is a lot less likely to play well against a fed Talon, and this would all lead to a Talon being so fed he could "literally walk away from" his keyboard to get kills.
If you don't play rank then you aren't getting in good enough practice to improve at the game. Not to say that you aren't getting any practice in to improve, but normal games are not decent practice with all the people doing random shit or playing the way casual players play. You are a silver player and just based on statistics you are objectively not good and neither are the players you're going against. When you can "literally walk away from" your keyboard and kill players that understand the game properly, then you can make an outrageous claim like that.

Tl;dr: Rank is a valid argument when your current rank has only a loose idea on how to play the game and they barely understand counterplay at all.

DyrreahJan 4, 20191 votes

But not too many people play Talon nowadays. I guess he is that hidden wtf.

StraconyJan 4, 20192 votes

He's just not plastered all over the tier list sites. And probably cause youtubers haven't made a "OMFG, this champ is 100%. Hidden OP build GG" clickbait vid.

Meat Beat ManiaJan 4, 20191 votes

The champ is just overshadowed by better ones

StraconyJan 4, 20191 votes

yeah, I can see that tbh.

AirKingNeoJan 3, 20195 votes

every assassin but like Kha'zix and leblanc and kassadin are fucking bad

The Bad TouchJan 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

every assassin but like Kha'zix and leblanc and kassadin are fucking bad

Yeh Akali/Nocturne were only 2 of the most played and the 2nd/3rd highest win rate champ in 2018 worlds...

Nice try.

StraconyJan 4, 20192 votes

The assassins being over-tuned denial is so damn strong. This is actually typical of assassin players. Every game has the "Damage dealer" class players, typically these players are the most biased out of the entire community and have little to no understanding or respect for other players or other roles. They completely disregard all concept of game balance as long as they "DO ALL THE DAMAGE!!"

Fire BlaustoiseJan 4, 20192 votes

Why are you talking about old patches ??? And Nocturne was mainly picked for his synergy with Galio Ornn

The Bad TouchJan 5, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjIXNjla,comment-id=0002000100000001,timestamp=2019-01-04T21:30:15.631+0000)

Why are you talking about old patches ??? And Nocturne was mainly picked for his synergy with

"Old patches" Worlds 2018. Nothing important has changed other than plating... which made snowball reliant champ even stronger....

Meat Beat ManiaJan 7, 20191 votes

Akali is a very skill intensive champ and Nocturne was picked because of the Nocturne Galio combo. You're also forgetting the fact that we play solo q and not a Challenger exclusive tournament in a competitive setting.

The Bad TouchJan 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Meat Beat Mania,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjIXNjla,comment-id=0002000100000002,timestamp=2019-01-07T21:09:48.739+0000)

Akali is a very skill intensive champ and Nocturne was picked because of the Nocturne Galio combo. You're also forgetting the fact that we play solo q and not a Challenger exclusive tournament in a competitive setting.

What does skill intensive have to do with the time of day? Top 4 performing champs in worlds 2018 were Orrn/Leblanc/Akali/Nocturne regardless. So no assassins aren't bad in pro play.

Fire BlaustoiseJan 4, 20191 votes

Saying this when you abuse Zoe... so shameless*[sg-miss-fortune]*

When players have hands, assassins are weaks. When feds, its like everything in this game when fed tho.

Assassins have pattern you can easly punish. But again its only true if you learn the game.

NetorareJan 4, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjIXNjla,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2019-01-04T21:27:36.053+0000)

Saying this when you abuse Zoe... so shameless*[sg-miss-fortune]*

When players have hands, assassins are weaks. When feds, its like everything in this game when fed tho.

Assassins have pattern you can easly punish. But again its only true if you learn the game.

At least Zoe requires some skill unlike ad assassins that lost their skill ceiling thanks to lethality.

The thigh guyJan 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjIXNjla,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2019-01-04T21:27:36.053+0000)

Saying this when you abuse Zoe... so shameless*[sg-miss-fortune]*

When players have hands, assassins are weaks. When feds, its like everything in this game when fed tho.

Assassins have pattern you can easly punish. But again its only true if you learn the game.

Assassins would be easy to punish, if they were punishable. If a talon can be diving me in my fountain (exaggeration) and still escape because he has what may as well be a no cooldown dash (not exaggeration) then there is no punishing him.

Fire BlaustoiseJan 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjIXNjla,comment-id=000200030001,timestamp=2019-01-07T21:12:22.694+0000)

Assassins would be easy to punish, if they were punishable.

you really need to improve your macro and micro if you think so.

The thigh guyJan 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjIXNjla,comment-id=0002000300010000,timestamp=2019-01-07T22:19:29.152+0000)

you really need to improve your macro and micro if you think so.

Oh really? Because I don’t think I should need to play 3 ranks better than someone just tongo even.

Leblanc is also not punishable.

If both players unrealistically make no mistakes, the assassin comes out on top due to safety of insane mobility.

If the assassin is even close to the same skill level as you, they come out on top. Because of the insane safety of their mobility.

That’s the key. Mobility. It’s turns this feast or famine role into a feast or feast harder role because their mistakes don’t matter.

Unless you are caught by a malz ult and don’t have qss there is litteraly zero excuse to ever die on these braindead mobility machines.

Fire BlaustoiseJan 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjIXNjla,comment-id=00020003000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-07T22:27:24.511+0000)

Oh really? Because I don’t think I should need to play 3 ranks better than someone just tongo even.

Leblanc is also not punishable.

I agree here... but in same time she's a mage, not an assassin (despite her stupid damage).

If both players unrealistically make no mistakes, the assassin comes out on top due to safety of insane mobility.

No. But her it depend of the pick. But anyway, Talon, Zed, Fizz are easly punishable during lane (and teamfight).

If the assassin is even close to the same skill level as you, they come out on top. Because of the insane safety of their mobility.

Against it depend on the elo. Look at ZEd, the pick is trash in high elo (high Diams) every midlaners & junglers know how to handle him and his big cd. Talon is stronger in high elo tho... but its not due to his safety. Yeah, its his mobility, but mobility on the map to gank and reach ennemy (its not mobility like Camille).

That’s the key. Mobility. It’s turns this feast or famine role into a feast or feast harder role because their mistakes don’t matter.

They dont matter in low elo.

NééköJan 3, 201919 votes

I had an outplay moment... my team got lv1 invaded then I pulled them away from my adc and made it to the safety of my tower*[sg-soraka]* only to get 5man flashed and a ignight to kill me.. going for no death games is hard...

DNFVixenJan 3, 201916 votes

{quoted}

everything occurs too fast for there to be any counter play

i agree

Vile OdiumJan 3, 201916 votes

yeah too much damage and too unbalanced :D unlucky

Glory97Jan 3, 201913 votes

I queued up, I preselected aatrox. Then the enemy team first picked it. I got outplayed so hard, the game was lost at that point.

le secret opJan 3, 201912 votes

i once got chain-ignited at lvl1 by 3 people

HügöJan 3, 201911 votes

Wow you don't feel outplayed when someone bursts you down with no counterplay?

FlemmanJan 3, 20199 votes

perfectly timed sivir shield still feels good to me :p

CaveslothJan 3, 201913 votes

Lols careful, anything that keeps someone from dying gets nerfed into the ground. Clearly Riot has forgotten about Sivir's shield. Mention it too many times and they'll notice and nerf that shit. (Or just replace it with more damage)

Somebody Love MeJan 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Lols careful, anything that keeps someone from dying gets nerfed into the ground. Clearly Riot has forgotten about Sivir's shield. Mention it too many times and they'll notice and nerf that shit. (Or just replace it with more damage)

Sivir E [RENAMED]- ~~Spellshield~~ (Renamed to) Another damage ability ACTIVE [REMOVED]: ~~After a brief delay, Sivir gains a spell shield for 1.5 seconds. If Sivir blocks an ability with this shield, she restores mana.~~

NEW EFFECT: If Sivir is damaged by an enemy ability, the damage she takes is added to the next use of Boomerang Blade.

CaveslothJan 5, 20191 votes

lols sounds about accurate.

Handy Sandy Jan 3, 20199 votes

I can feel counterplay, but it's less like "Hey, dodge this ability!" It's more like "Don't do this in the first place"

Example: You walking by a bush as Lux. Talon pops out. Instead of fewer steps ahead counterplay like dodging his W or E whatever the blades are, the more steps ahead counterplay here is "Don't walk out in the open without vision in the first place"

Making less mistakes is more important now, I don't feel like there's anything wrong with that because I don't see 2-3 champions being enforced in the meta as heavily as previous metas.

Even champions like Irelia have counterplay, it's just more steps ahead counterplay like "Don't have terrible wave management and she won't kill you" rather than fewer steps ahead counterplay like "Dodge my gapcloser"

MonstermushmushJan 4, 20192 votes

Ekko is a pretty good outplayer.

The thigh guyJan 4, 20199 votes

{quoted}

Ekko is a pretty good outplayer.

Only because he has a button that says “rito I fucked up, plz help :(“

MonstermushmushJan 4, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kjIXNjla,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-01-04T01:48:24.248+0000)

Only because he has a button that says “rito I fucked up, plz help :(“

I mean, when you use it as an escape then it's not an outplay. I'm talking about hitting his W or ult on multiple people and dodging things with E and Ult. Pulling his Q back with flash is also very cool.

Meat Beat ManiaJan 7, 20191 votes

I think that thigh guy forgot about Ekko's W