How to win the most annoying matchups in the game: A comprehensive list.

Melledoneus··60 votes·7,446 views

People always complain about really annoying lanes that make them feel helpless and useless. Here's where this thread comes in: I analyzed and broke down each and every matchup and provided counterpicks and countermeasures to counter the influence of these champions. Here we go.


Riven A staple of every player's complaints, Riven boasts incredibly high damage outputs, being lethal even at level 1. Her mobility, immense damage output, and low cooldowns make her a horror to face off against. But she's not invincible. #Counterplay The main thing you have to remember when fighting Riven is that she can and will kill you. But that's her greatest weakness: her feast or famine playstyle. If you have any respectable damage from your top laner or jungler, utilize it to take down Riven early so that you can gain level advantages on her. Make sure to coordinate with your team to warn them about when Riven is missing, as she can snowball off of just 1 kill. If you do not have any respectable damage from your jungler or top laner, and your mid laner is pre-occupied, play the long game.

When playing the long game, you have to be smarter than the Riven player. You can afford to last hit away from Riven as long as you have some way to hinder her mobility enough to force her to back off. Riven players generally are very aggressive, using her Q's relatively short cooldown (for what it does, anyway) to tear through everything in their path in order to get harass on you. A good way to abuse this is to bait Riven into attacking you, backing off, and she will have torn though a minion wave and pushed harder, meaning that you can easily freeze the wave and force her to lose farm or risk getting ganked.

If you had an "oops" moment during laning phase, taking down Riven is just like taking down Katarina: wait until she goes in, then lock her down. Focus her hard and she will be obliterated. While tanks may generally lose against Riven in lane, they prove to be the best line of defense against her later on. Make sure you don't create openings for her to go in and deal damage, and position your team defensively so that Riven cannot reach your carries without wallowing through the rest of your team.

#Counterpicks Champions with stronger dueling such as Poppy and Aatrox can really screw up a Riven if they play their lane right. Also, champions who can completely negate Riven's all-in such as Chogath and Garen prove to be nightmares for her, as silences and CC make her absolutely useless. Paired up with this damage, Riven is sure to have difficulty with lanes like these, and may or may not rage quit. 76% of the time, they do.


Fizz The mid laner terror as he is, Fizz is an extremely mobile champion that deals terrifying amounts of damage even early on, and can turn 1 kill into a won lane. But even he has his flaws.

#Counterplay During the laning phase, keep your distance and try to farm. If you have any ranged harass you can nail Fizz with, be sure to pressure him by using it, while managing resources. Make sure you stay away from Fizz's melee range as his W's DoT is extremely detrimental to your lane, especially if you are low health to begin with. Avoid his harass with Q by staying out of range, and if you have any mobility you can bait it, dodge his all-in, and hit back strategically, finding a way around his E. His E has a relatively high cooldown early on, so punish him hard when it's down.

Should you have a jungler gank, most of the time accept the fact you won't kill Fizz. Sometimes ganks are there to expend resources of the mid laner to make the lane easier to deal with. Should your jungler put pressure on the lane, Fizz will start having to expend lots of his mana to use his E to escape. Eventually he'll be forced to back or die, and from there you can get a lead by farming up.

Mid-late game, keep extensive map vision a priority. A surprise ult from Fizz can disorient most teams, and destroy any squishy carry. Additionally, have your carries keep their distance so that Fizz doesn't have an opening to go in on. Should he dive the carry, fall back and eliminate him. ADCs like Caitlyn are nightmares for Fizz later on because her dash and long range make it nearly impossible for Fizz to reach her.

#Counterpicks People that can straight up duel Fizz and mitigate his damage can deal with him easily. Diana and Mordekaiser are two prime candidates for those lanes where Fizz can't do much but farm and pray he doesn't die. Ryze and Akali are examples of champions that can easily avoid Fizz's all-in and strike back harder. Once Fizz's cooldowns are used up, all he can do is walk and auto attack.


Tryndamere The infamous strong-armed champion that makes us all wonder what Riot was thinking, Tryndamere is a menace in lane with his critical strikes and incredible mobility, sometimes he needs more than 5 seconds to do his job.

#Counterplay Tryndamere is a strange one. He will try to auto attack minions early on, then proceed to jump onto you and crit you to death. That's never fun. However, while it is annoying to deal with, you can use it to your advantage. Similar to Riven, he will push very fast, since his passive works against him in that regard. Let the lane push out, do your best to freeze the lane, and watch him grow bored and roam. Once he does roam, coordinate with your team to take him down.

Should Tryndamere be up against somebody with good dueling potential, you can bet there's a lane you can win. Don't extend your stay until 6, you need to shut down Tryndamere before he ever gets his ultimate. It's just easier that way. Juggernauts and bruisers can deal with Tryndamere's all-in with CC, heavy damaging abilities, or straight up auto attacks. You can easily keep your distance from him if you know how to position yourself behind minions and respect his E's range. Giving him free harass on you will just help him with the lane with his Q's heal.

Later on in the game, Tryndamere becomes very difficult to deal with. He will split push all game, then proceed to destroy your carries by jumping onto them through your entire team. Coordinate with your team to utilize slows and other soft CC that can slow Tryndamere's advance to a crawl, then retaliate. When his E is back up, make sure to use your hard CC then in order to stop his escape. Should he advance with his team, either pressure the back line with AoE or presence, and fall back to deal with Tryndamere effectively. Hard CC is the best way to stop a raging Tryndamere.

#Counterpicks Champions like Jax and Nasus who can impair Tryndamere's ability to deal damage, then retaliate with immense damage themselves are valuable against him. Wither and Counter-Strike are two of Tryndamere's worst nightmares, as it affects his ability to deal damage in lane. Juggernauts like Garen and Darius can hold a lane against this rager, and maybe even end a fight gone wrong with a timely execute. Darius in particular has a good pressure tool on Tryndamere with his bleed, as even after Tryndamere escapes the bleed can kill him. Champions that can make his laning phase hell like SatanTeemo and Renekton are also very effective against him. To deal with his split pushing, people who can split push harder like Nasus or Trundle can counteract his presence.


Zed is a champion that many mid laners have had the misfortune to deal with. Sporting a combination of long range poke, AoE burst, and a pair of executes that synergize with each other, it's no wonder people have trouble dealing with this mobile shadow ninja. But we can shed some light on that.

#Counterplay Zed is a champion who relies on his shadows to deal heavy damage to targets. While this may not be news, it can be difficult to deal with his constant harass with his energy-based resources that are seemingly limitless. Dealing with Zed is all about windows of time and opportunity. Did Zed throw a shuriken just now? Harass him, he has no ranged projectiles. Did he just expend a full combo to clear the wave and/or try to kill you? No matter, his only pre-6 mobility is down. You have to abuse his cooldowns to their full extent, and if you dodge his poke you can deal with him by harassing him hard.

Zed's abilities focus mainly on him landing them. While it may seem difficult to dodge things like his W-E, you can always do what most immobile mages do to deal with him: hide behind minions. His shurikens will hurt a lot less if it went through a minion or two beforehand, and if he uses a full combo in your minion wave he'll just have pushed extremely hard, forcing him to back off or risk getting ganked. Also, if you dodge Zed's abilities, you have a good 10-15 seconds to punish him, as his energy bar is limited and runs out quickly. He is melee, but be wary of his shurikens. Moving erratically and strategically is key in this matchup. Otherwise you'll play into his strengths.

Later on, Zed becomes a menace as he will not even need his ultimate to kill squishies anymore. One way to counter this is to keep the carries far into the back line, so as to force Zed to think twice before going through your team. Should he use his ultimate (this also applies in lane), aim all your skillshots on the opposite side of where he approached from. If you land any hard CC on him, or even a silence, Zed's whole assassination will have backfired. It's easy pickings from that point. Even if you don't kill him, you will force him to back off early, but be wary of this as he can still use his shadows to harass from long range with his abilities.

Another way to mitigate Zed's damage in general is to fake him out. This applies to most skillshots with a cast animation. If you see a good Zed throw out his shadow, he will try to slowroll the skillshot in order to wait for you to panic and use your mobility or play into his hands. Instead, you should walk one direction, and starting moving completely randomly. Once you see him casting his shuriken, walk in the complete opposite direction of where you were, preferably diagonally away so that you can dodge it easier.

#Counterpicks Champions that can shut down a Zed are strong picks that can mitigate his harass and hit him back twofold. Diana and Ekko are extremely good at this, because their array of targeted damage, mobility, and shields grant them the ability to make Zed extremely underwhelming. Ekko in particular can just press R to counter Zed's entire all-in combo. Champions that can easily duel a Zed like Fizz and Malzahar can make his life difficult. Fizz can avoid Zed's harass constantly with his E (troll pole, for reference), and can avoid the detonation damage of Zed's ultimate while launching a counter attack. The anchored points of Zed's mobility also make it easy for Fizz to have a target for his ultimate, and he can easily force Zed to blow his own should he get the fish on him. Malzahar in particular can keep up even, if not stronger harass and pushing power against a Zed, and his level 6 power spike is so strong that it dwarfs Zed's level 6 strength in comparison. Zed with all his mobility cannot avoid Malzahar's Nether Grasp (R), and as squishy as he is will melt under the damage quickly.

Other champions include those that can outright outsustain and tank through the laning phase and the game, such as Chogath and Irelia. Cho'gath in particular stacks so much health that Zed has trouble killing him to begin with, and his incredible sustain in lane with his passive and ultimate allow his harass to go nearly unpunished. Irelia has very decent sustain, and while not usually a mid lane pick, can prove to be an issue to the Master of Shadows throughout the game. Should Zed deal even a sliver of damage to Irelia, she can use her Equilibrium Strike (E) in order to get a heavy 2 second stun on Zed, rendering his entire window of strength useless.


Fiora The Queen of Deleting, Fiora is a very menacing champion to deal with. Armed with an array of utility tools and true damage that bypasses even the tankiest champions' defenses, Fiora is truly something difficult to deal with. But we're determined to let you know how to beat her.

#Counterplay A link to a guide to deal with Fiora is posted here: https://www.quora.com/How-does-one-perform-a-DDoS-attack

Other than that, you can find a deity to believe in, and pray to them that this Fiora be extremely bad.

#Counterpicks A better Fiora


Feel free to post your own guides down here! I'd appreciate the help and could add them to the post with credit to the person in order to help our community improve!

141 Comments

SpecterVonBaren9 votes

I have your one stop shop for dealing with Riven.

Nautilus Top

Seriously, it's the easiest lane of your life. You're too tanky for her to burst down and you have too much cc for her to just trade and run away. And even if she uses her shield, because you can CC lock her, it'll run out before she can get away so you can shove your anchor straight up her rear end.

Sypher The Poro8 votes

As a Riven with 200K mastery points and counting, I agree. He isn't that annoying in a solo lane (you just can't really kill him) but he sets up ganks so stupidly well.

Poppy is also really friken annoying, but more for her W. Early game you can stomp her in lane and late all she has to do is stand on you with W and her team rips you to pieces. Don't even think about using any spells, because it counts as a knockup which can't be removed via QSS.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Mm. If the Riven is dumb or underestimates you then you can even get a kill on her. If they understand the matchup though then you won't really win without jungler intervention but you also won't lose.

Sypher The Poro1 votes

You can actually win this lane hard as Riven. All you need to do is stay away from walls and wait out her W anytime she uses it. Easiest way I've found so far to bait it out, is just dash at them with E. Most Poppys will use it right away to prevent the engage, and all you need to do is keep walking at her until it goes down then just Fast Q her in the face. Worst comes to worst, she runs away and you get free farm.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Eh? I was talking about Nautilus.

Sypher The Poro1 votes

Sorry, I had assumed you meant Poppy. xD

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

I like to run Sejuani into RIven. Same principle though.

Ralanr4 votes

Pantheon counters Fiora.

Melledoneus31 votes

The game counters Pantheon.

Ralanr3 votes

Sad...but true past 30 minutes.

I'd really like him to be subject to some changes that don't cause him to fall off so easily.

Akenero13 votes

{quoted}

The game counters Pantheon.

a good trynd will rush towers a great trynd will rush early trades an amazing trynd will freeze lanes in hard matchups*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

Melledoneus17 votes

So... what does this have to do with Pantheon again?

EDIT: Oh, wait. The sticker. Hah.

WarlordTim1 votes

No worries, I had to read your comment to get it.

HotChilly3 votes

I still dont get it....help =( lol

WarlordTim1 votes

What that guy said.

elon wątroba2 votes

He can easily peel for carry with targeted stun in late game.

Cupkek3 votes

{quoted}

The game counters Pantheon.

Don't you talk bad about my Mantheon!

Robbit Mang4 votes

If i can say something really quick, Garen is garbage vs riven. Like, If the riven and garen are equal skill its slightly in rivens favor. Only way garen wins is by being a beast at the game and outplaying her. People think that because of the silence he instawins, but thats not true at all.

48983507DEL13 votes

No, it's pretty much the battle between a simple, low counterplay, low outplay potential champ vs a complex, moderate counterplay, massive outplay potential champ.

Garen definitely has the stat advantage, but Riven has the outplay potential advantage.

The lane is actually really boring; Riven can't burst Garen, but Garen can't risk wasting his spells trying to gap-close to Riven, so they will both just end up farming. Later in the game, however, Garen will just wait for Riven to dive his team, then drop his silence on her.

Stephenizgod2 votes

Somewhat true, mostly because Riven has more potential in her kit than Garen does. Silence shuts her down but only if she lets you hit it without dashing away from the spin first. When I lose to Riven its because they go in with Q, E away right when i silence then go back in with the shield and their remaining Q's. Its hard to deal with that since she deals far more damage even with his tank.

Lolipoppers3 votes

Here is a list of ways to counter Zed:

iDarkWind6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Phantomhive Xx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yJQenGUY,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-01-31T20:00:02.968+0000)

Here is a list of ways to counter Zed:

Zhonya's Hourglass, QSS and try to avoid his damage after he marks you with some kind of dashs if you have. His ultimate has a delay wich offers ways to you counterplay him.

I think it was what you wanted to say, at least I hope.

Melledoneus8 votes

He ran out of time because he was laning against Fiora and realized that his armor was futile.

KANYE OBAMA GOD1 votes

I'm gonna shoot snot out of my nose from laughing too hard stop lmao

Stephenizgod3 votes

Malzahar pretend to retreat, like you are scared he will kill you, flash if you must, but get to your turret with low hp. 99% of the time Zed will ult you because the thirst is real and they play Zed... so they are cocky... here is where it gets tricky: Press R. Boom you just killed Zed. You bet your ass he will do this over and over again until he kills you cuz Malz tilts Zedz so hard. Fizz'z and Kat's will do the same thing and also pretty much anyone who dives you over and over again. WARNING!!!! THIS DOES NOT WORK ON UDYR

iDarkWind1 votes

{quoted}

Malzahar pretend to retreat, like you are scared he will kill you, flash if you must, but get to your turret with low hp. 99% of the time Zed will ult you because the thirst is real and they play Zed... so they are cocky... here is where it gets tricky: Press R. Boom you just killed Zed. You bet your ass he will do this over and over again until he kills you cuz Malz tilts Zedz so hard. Fizz'z and Kat's will do the same thing and also pretty much anyone who dives you over and over again. WARNING!!!! THIS DOES NOT WORK ON UDYR

Yeah also that. I agreed on everything except on Katarina, at least for me isn't that hard to win since I have better poke and ways to "dodge" her ultimate.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Malz vs Kat is no fun... for the Kat. I have made so many Kats just straight AFK or start intentionally feeding. Malz destroys Kat.

iDarkWind1 votes

{quoted}

Malz vs Kat is no fun... for the Kat. I have made so many Kats just straight AFK or start intentionally feeding. Malz destroys Kat.

I meant Kata vs Zed. I agree with that part.

Stephenizgod2 votes

Hohoho i took Yorick against Fiora ..... i lost miserably... wait who is Yorick?

Koechophe2 votes

Here's one that I feel is very important atm, since Leblanc rage has been super popular lately:

Leblanc The ever popular, ever mobile, quintessential AP assassin. Leblanc can seem extremely lacking in counterplay if you don't know how to fight her correctly, but learning her play patterns makes her easy to deal with.

Counterplay The most important thing to note about LB are her power spikes. At level one, she's actually extremely weak; chances are good she's running her W, which isn't terribly high damage for a starting spell and is easy enough to stay out of range of. Try to poke her down as much as you can. At level 2, she hits a power spike, where her Q + W combo will do a decent bit of damage (especially with thunderlord's). Be careful of her at this level, and stay out of her W range. If she over-extends, poke her down, don't try to engage. Her power tapers off at levels 3, 4 and 5, and then at level 6 she hits another power spike with her ult, though not as big as you'd expect. Most champs will actually gain more power from their ults than Leblanc. If she decides to all-in you at 6, you will be able to win if you play it right, or at the very least, shove her out of lane. Leblanc's power tapers off afterwards. She power spikes just a tad at level nine, and then tapers until she hits her biggest power spike, level 11. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT, engage her at level 11-14. She is extremely powerful with the level 11, and will likely be able to kill you if you engage poorly. She gets another spike at level 16, but not as big, and by this point her power is seriously waning. Despite what most people think, LB is not terribly strong early on lane; it's around level 11 that she'll really be able to knock you around. Try to press the advantage before then. If you and LB exit the lane with similar farm and kills, you've won the lane; it's her responsibility to outfarm or outkill you, or else she's going to be gimping her team because she wasted her power spikes.

Main counterplay against her: Poke. Long ranged poke wrecks her: she can't afford to use W to dodge, because if she does, you can punish the crap out of it. Leblanc levels W first in lane, and as a result, MOST of her early damage is tied to the W, which is a relatively short ranged spell, especially if you consider travel time to get to you. If she just lands Q and E on you, it'll feel like she's tickling you, because her base damages are all tied up in her W. As long as you DONT get in W range in lane, she will not be able to kill you.

Beyond that, LB is not the best wave clearer. Champions who can safely farm or safely waveclear will punish her greatly, not only because she's not that good at farming under the tower, but because she can't roam without losing CS if you push out the lane. Building Abyssal is also ALWAYS a good idea, no matter how the lane is doing. A bit of magic resist and LB's burst loses its bite very quickly. Keep in mind that her Q is her only targetted spell: you should be able to avoid W by keeping at range, and E by either dodging or minions. Her W, however, is the most important one: she won't be able to kill you without it early, and defintely not late unless she's uber fed or you're low or extremely squishy. IF she burns her W, go ham: all of her damage is burst, so while you may feel afraid watching your HP go down, realize that she can't do anything beyond what she starts with.

Champions that counter her Zone control is LB's worst nightmare: she has to get pretty close ranged to land a W, and in landing W, she spends a second in melee range of you, and generally stands still for .5 seconds casting her spells, which is extremely easy to punish. Anivia does very well, not only because her Q can stun LB instantly when she gets in range, but because anivia's burst is actually more than a match for LB's, and because anivia's fantastic post-6 waveclear will leave LB with very few options. Not to mention, LB doesn't have the sustained damage to kill anivia's egg, so she's very hard to assassinate in lane without a junlger. Lux also does extremely well, because her long-ranged poke and waveclear hurt a lot, and because her shield can soak up damage pretty well, and because she can Light Binding her straight out of distortion, giving her enough time to pull her entire burst combo on LB with complete safety. Kayle Is also fantastic, because her waveclear leaves nothing to be desired, her Ult can pull the teeth out of LB's burst, and her sustained damage will usually win trades over LB, especially since Kayle's heal allows her some precious in lane sustain. These are my top picks VS lb, others include long-range pokers Xerath Ziggs Sustain or tank heavy champs Chogath Galio Vladimir and strong level 1-5 champs Fizz

Hope some of that is helpful!

Papa Slothy2 votes

counterpicking fizz is all about taking a champ with tankiness and sustain who can harass and block an all in, cho'gath, anivia

same with riven, malphite makes me cry as he can outtank and outdamage her both early and late game

MintChipHomieLix1 votes

I am glad you took the time to copy and paste what is written on LoLcounters.com or where ever you got this info. Thanks for the common sense man XD

ElysMustache45 votes

I feel like the whole thing was a lead up to Fiora, which was the punchline. It gave me one chuckle.

Melledoneus19 votes

Well, LoL counters isn't updated for Fiora. So there's that.

MintChipHomieLix1 votes

Umm you are right but the champs that counter her are still the same ones? So while her skills aren't updated it's a tad common sense what you are saying... so... yeah.... there's that.

YumaS2Astral10 votes

{quoted}

Umm you are right but the champs that counter her are still the same ones? So while her skills aren't updated it's a tad common sense what you are saying... so... yeah.... there's that.

Champions that used to counter old Fiora are not nearly as effective now.

For example Malphite used to be a hard counter because he could just stack a lot of armor while outdueling Fiora with his attack speed slow. He can still potentially deal with the new Fiora, but building armor against her is not as effective due to her true damage. Attack speed slows do very little against her because of Fiora having lots of auto attack resets and also because a big part of her damage comes from her passive. Also, Fiora can block Malphite's ult with Riposte.

Oh there is also item 3075. Before, you could easily beat Fiora by just picking any tanky champion and then building this item. Fiora would kill herself if she tried to duel you and her damage would be reduced a lot due to the armor. Nowadays, don't even think of purchasing Thornmail against Fiora. Not only this item does mediocre damage now and is only worth on armor stacking tanks, but Fiora laughs at this item's armor because she has true damage.

MintChipHomieLix1 votes

So what about the other 80% of information? Plus you're level 8 aren't you still playing bots at that level?

Melledoneus13 votes

Well, he seems to know quite a bit for a level 8, so I doubt this is his only account.

Furthermore, Fiora doesn't have counters. Jax's E isn't anything against her Q, and she can Riposte it. Not to mention that champions that used to counter her were burly and could drag out fights to the point of her losing them, but now her passive allows her to not only fight bruisers and tanks, but assassinate them.

Ztoka1 votes

{quoted}

Well, LoL counters isn't updated for Fiora. So there's that.

Riven is an amazing Fiora counter.....

Transgressor1 votes

A comprehensive list and analysis on counterplay and counterpicking, by your friendly resident 2-seasons-and-counting bronze player. http://cdn.meme.am/instances/65050687.jpg

An example of how this guide is bad? Why list Mordekaiser and Akali as counters(Akali especially isn't), when there are actually stronger and viable option on the table like Zed, Leblanc, Orianna, Lissandra and Ahri to name a few.

How is Caitlyn actually a viable pick later on against him? She has 1 dash on average to long cooldown, he has 2, one of which makes him untargetable every 4.8s at 40%cdr. And you're telling me this champion that's specifically designed to slip past your peeling teammates to get to the back line, has a rather hard time against an immobile and burstless ADC. Viable ADCs against him, and actually quite strong as well, are Lucian, Graves, Vayne and Corki to name a few. They have self-peel, great damage/poke/steroids. A Caitlyn is a free meal for a Fizz; catch her down bot lane farming solo, and murder her ass.

You're talking about Riven, telling players they have to be smarter than her when playing against her. You are telling me, people who have trouble playing against a freaking Riven, have the knowledge to freeze and generally manipulate waves? And you're expecting that from them? I personally have no problem laning against any Riven but I can't manipulate a wave even if my life was depended on it.

I could go on and on about this whole thing, but fuck that. Bye.

NecromanciCat24 votes

I absolutely love seeing people talk down to someone in Bronze, especially when that person is low silver --which, just so you know, might as well be high bronze. Get real.

Now, your suggested counters to Fizz are awful, here's why:

Zed: His ult can be negated easily by anything that makes someone invulnerable. Guess what Fizz can do. Leblanc: All of her damage can be negated by dodging her W-Q-R-E combo. Guess what Fizz can do. Orianna: She loses to high burst. Guess what Fizz can do. Lissandra: Interesting you should say that, because looking at your match history, you actually lost as Liss vs a Fizz. She's too easy to telegraph to counter Fizz. Ahri: If you dodge her charm, she can't land her Q for both ways, and she's vulnerable to high burst. Guess what Fizz can do.

Mordekaiser is hands down the strongest counter to Fizz. Fizz wants to fight, Morde takes less damage the longer he fights. His shield negates burst, Fizz is only burst.

Now, your proposed ADCs Vs Fizz, they're also wrong:

Lucian: Low range, short-range dash, damage coming mostly from ability-weaved-autos. Lucian dashes, now he has no mobility. Fizz ults because he's close, and that's that. Graves: Abysmal range, short-range dash with slight defense buff, vision-reducing smoke screen, all skillshots. Why would you even suggest this? Fizz can dodge literally everything from Graves and kill him without taking a single point of damage. Vayne: Low Range, very short-ranged dash (with stealth when ulting), knock-back. I'm just gonna take a shot in the dark and say you think that Vayne's stealth is going to help her here. It doesn't. Fizz's ult grants true sight, so he can still see her when landing his ult, and her dash isn't long enough to dodge it. Awful choice here too. Corki: Moderate range, long-ranged dash (even longer with his care package, along with a knock-aside), all skillshots. Once again, you're selecting a champion that's skillshots are better against an opponent that's not in your face. Corki's dash is long-ranged, but it requires a slight cast time and can be cancelled by Fizz's ultimate, stopping him mid dash, and leaving him defenseless. In the short cast time, it's easy to land a close ultimate.

Caitlyn is, once again, a decent choice. Her range is long, and if Fizz ults, she has more time to react than the other ADCs. Assuming he Playful/Tricksters over your team, he is now vulnerable. Cait's range is longer than Fizz Q range, so she should easily be able to land a net and slow him, which also gives her a free Headshot. Now, assuming, for whatever reason, Fizz is still able to get into range after a missed ult and E on CD, a decent Cait would place a trap down on and around herself so that she can be given time to run. If any Caitlyn is a "free meal" it's because they're not good.

If you lose to a Riven, it's because you weren't smart about engages, it's that simple. While telling low-level players to manipulate waves is a bit much, it's easy to get your lane shoved by a Riven, so there shouldn't be too much of a problem in just farming by/under tower. I also very highly doubt that you've never had trouble against a Riven. That's just way too unlikely.

"I could go on and on about this whole thing, but fuck that. Bye."

Melledoneus9 votes

Couldn't have said it better, my friend.

Chogath And up you go!

Stephenizgod10 votes

^ this is hilarious, good job. I love when Silvers talk down to Bronzies as if they are better, as a Silver player i know first hand the skill difference between a Bronze and a Silver... its like basically nothing, im freakin garbage specially this season... Some get unlucky and are stuck others get lucky and get carried, that whole ELO is fucked up.

Anyway even though your comment was meant to teach that dickhead a lesson, it was actually quite informative with a ton of knowledge packed in behind snarky comments. How do you deal with Fiora? I use to be able to handle her but this new Tank Fiora has kicked my ass on several occasions.

NecromanciCat2 votes

Sorry for the late reply, but better late than never! But yeah, it seriously annoys me when people try to act superior to someone so close in rank. I was platinum back in Season 3 and 4 before I quit S5, and I try to never pull rank and say someone who wasn't as high ranked as myself has invalid advice compared to my own.

Anyways, Fiora can be a bit tricky, but I don't generally have problems with her top lane, though as squishies she can be trouble. But there are three general things that can be applied as anyone. Predict the dash. This might sound like redundant advice because she's always in melee range (unless you play as a ranged top laner), but it's something that important. If you're able to, it cuts her DPS by a lot and the cooldown doesn't get reduced, so she can't continue to chase. If she ults, run. This is something that should be noted as well. Assuming you're not terribly out of position or your lane is pushed, you should be able to use something to get to safety (again, this is where dodging Lunge is so important). She should only be able to get the back two vitals if you turn and run when she ults, less if you have some mobility spells. Not dying while you're ulted in team fights is big, if you die, her team gets a huge heal, that could very well win them the fight. Bait out her Riposte. This is probably the most important thing to do. I assume a big problem with Fiora for players is that she has .75 seconds of complete invulnerability, and players don't know how to counter it. Well, first, the easiest way to negate it is by feigning an engage, she'll likely use her Riposte, and then you're free to harass her.

Now, a couple of items to get against her if you're having trouble: Melee Champions

  • Frozen Heart: if you're playing a champion that can utilize this, then it's great. The aura severely hurts her DPS, the armor reduces that already reduced damage, the mana and CDR are great, and the best part? It doesn't give HP, so her passive doesn't do more damage.

  • Thornmail: If she gets really ahead, this will give you a big chunk of armor and a passive that should deal some damage to her. NEVER RUSH THORNMAIL.

  • Sunfire Cape: Armor, some HP, and the aura you probably bought it for. Fiora wants to stay close to you, so Sunfire will prove to be the best first item for bruisers or tanks that need it.

  • Deadman's Plate: Speed, strong, on-hit slow, great armor and HP. Another mid-game choice for defense, the stats are great and the slow is extremely good.

Ranged Champions

  • Guardian Angel: If you get focused and killed, she's going to sit there either getting focused, or twiddling her thumbs while you resurrect. Win/win.
  • Randuin's Omen: This is kinda hard to recommend since it's not that good in this state of the game. However, it's the passive and active that save you. If she can auto you, she gets slowed, if she gets close and tries to auto, pop the active and she's a sitting duck.
  • Zhonya's Hourglass: Self-explanatory for mages.
  • Frozen Mallet: The kiting!

Now, some Champions that I personally have success with vs Fiora: Pantheon: My go-to pick. I dive Fioras at level 3. Passive blocks her auto or Lunge, can poke her incredibly easy, can easily bait out her Riposte, all around strong pick. Jayce: Has strong harass from ranged, and if she tries jumping into him, he can easily knock her back and punish her. Gnar: Strong kiting with mini-Gnar, huge leap, and incredible engage with Mega-Gnar, assuming you can reliably double stun with him. Lee Sin: Not often played top, but his kit can destroy Fiora if you're capable of out-playing her. I skill up abilities like I would against Jax, in that I rush Hydra and max E second. If she engages, proper use of your passive as well as the attack speed debuff from the second cast of E should gain you the advantage. Jax: I personally don't play him, but Jax shines in prolonged fights, and Fiora tries to do just that.

Not sure if I'm forgetting anything, it's 3 am and I'm pretty tired :P good luck!

Tl;Dr Bait her abilities, run from ult if you can't kill her. Frozen Heart, GA, or Zhonya's. Kite her as ranged. Jax, Lee, Gnar, Jayce and Mantheon.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Holy crap that is a ton of information haha, thank you for replying.

I guess its because im not all that great, but dodging her Lunge seems really hard. I try to but its so quick and its hit box seems larger than it should be. I guess instead of trying to reaction dodge i should learn to anticipate it?

Good, i already run from her when she ults :) good to know im doing the right thing.

Baiting out the Riposte is probably what i need to practice the most, normally i can play around it but when i am up against a way better player it just destroys me.

I should pick up Pantheon again, he use to be my go to for squishy all in fighters. I suck with Jayce and Gnar, never played Lee Sin. Jax I can practice too.

Cool! Next time i play i will try some of your advice out, hopefully i can get it down so i don't need to waste a ban on her. Thank You!

NecromanciCat2 votes

Yeah, playing against Fiora requires you to be more proactive than reactive; she's the type of champion that you can't let engage on their terms. Predicting her lunge is what I meant, edited my post. But I've only bothered with her a couple of times and it's funny how many people still try and duel me when I ult.

And yeah, better players make my "bait riposte" a tad harder. They know the animations for CC they want to riposte, so it's incredibly hard to them to burn it. If that's the case, it's better to just not use the CC and chance getting yourself stunned and killed.

Jayce and Gnar are definitely not the easiest, but very few champions can reliably, and safely, whittle their opposing laner down then follow up with an engage for a kill.

Good luck with your games, bud!

Stephenizgod1 votes

Thank you for your advice, if only there were more people like you on the boards this would be a very informative and enjoyable place.

Good luck to you too :)

Only Play Darius1 votes

As someone who plays both Yasuo and Zed I find it frustrating that Zed is the one laner I cannot deal with as Yas. Yet the counterpick site says that Yasuo should be winning that matchup. I have been able to win every other matchup with Yas, even against Akali/Diana/Annie/Malz, but Zed out plays me every time

RoflsMazoy2 votes

The only thing Yasuo counters on Zed is his shuriken and even then it's only making it a little harder for Zed to land them. Everything else Zed has counters Yasuo.

Left Hook Larry1 votes

Yasuo vs Zed is a skill matchup where Zed has the advantage in lane and Yasuo gets the advantage when he gets his items

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