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I kinda feel like some of the keystones are in the wrong tree due to redundancy

Hammermancer··3 votes·453 views

Ok so I first started thinking this when i was looking at Press the Attack vs Lethal Temp being functionally redundant with PTA essentially being superior in 99% of cases. Looking at the rune page as a whole I was thinking that Arcane Comet and Summon Aery are also somewhat redundant with both serving a "Poke" niche

Electrocute, Comet, And summon aery could also be moved to better flesh out the trees and make the idea of choice really independent.

In my mind, press the attack would be more functional in the domination tree in place of electrocute, In addition I feel as though comet would work better in the precision tree due to it lacking a poke keystone, with PTA users likely opting for lethal tempo. Finally I'd move electrocute to the sorcery tree.

This would allow a poke and a fighting/all in mastery on all three of these trees.

the primary reason for this whole idea is to get rid of picking between two choices in one tree where one is clearly optimal every time, the use of comet for example, while good, is somewhat over the top recently. where the use of aery works functionally the same but with less damage and more reliability+versatility

A caster adc could if they wanted take comet, such as a jhin or a cait, without it being the worst choice in the world and the all in style'd adcs or demi adcs, like lucian, kaisa, or vayne, could make use of press the attack in the domination tree.

sorcery would still be viable to pick for champions like zed or talon, and would offer some in combat move speed or cdr if they need it. Of course they would likely go domination secondary for the spooky stacks and cheap shot.

Lethal tempo isn't bad, i just think it's bad when compared to like... press the attack. For example a twitch with lethal tempo would still deal pretty massive damage, but he would have to maintain his range and positioning for a little bit longer than he does with press the attack. So LT encouragement would be positive for the game as far as I'm concerned.

Bruisers often take domination, and I think that PTA fits them better than electrocute, since almost every bruiser is an AA weaver at heart, Other fighters, such as riven or fiora, also function better when they are properly using their auto attacks

the burst offered by electrocute is also somewhat redundant with the burst offered by dark harvest, only the conditions of the proc matter, so dark harvest is great for trying to go for late game scaling but still even in early game it functions pretty strongly if played correctly. I think the two masteries would be stronger on both sides if they weren't next to eachother.

and considering the fact that I'm seeing auto weaving bruisers go for comet, and I see long range poke adcs going for fleet of foot because of a lack of a better option in their tree, all the while not seeing lethal tempo in like... a month outside of when i did it for lulz on aram with nautilus. I think maybe it would be in the best interest of the community to offer this

4 Comments

woodvsmurph1 votes

comet - good for moderate cd and burst trade champs especially if they have cc; if not, it's only good before enemy buys boots or in teamfights where your teammates will cc people for you to try to chunk out

aery - for constant harass such as ranged vs melee matchups, melee matchups where you win early and want that extra strong dps to proc constantly, or bot lane ranged vs melee; also good if you want both damage and SHIELD/HEAL buff from your keystone; tradeoff? less burst damage on your combos

pta - for champs who want to land a few aa's then throw out a burst combo: mostly good on bruisers and fighters or ranged vs melee toplaners perhaps; all about catching someone and deleting them

lethal tempo - completely different from pta; for champs that just want attack speed and not much else or champs who can drop an attack speed item from their usual purchase and replace it with an ad or survivability item instead; all about insane attack speed in skirmishes and teamfights; mostly for ranged champs and master yi

there's some definite similarities; comet vs electrocute vs pta for instance - all offer some amount of burst to an attack or combo; the difference is in how often you can use it, how much each proc of it deals, and what's required to proc it

some improvements could definitely be made - especially if you look across the trees at how effective similar runes are compared to each other; however, they've done a remarkably good job of giving both variety and a decent semblance of balance for how new the whole system is

i will say that the new keystone on pbe giving true damage needs to be completely reworked though; it's making aa melee champs way too powerful while being far less stellar on the champs it was intended to help; basically a better version of pta for stuff like yas, yi, xin, etc. Either they need to change it to empower a single round of abilities and give more raw ad or else change it completely; empowering all aa's and abilities is too overbearing on aa-based melee's

Hammermancer1 votes

That new keystone is gross and unneeded, they would be better off just returning fervor to the game, but I feel like just rehoming some keystones will help bruisers, fighters, and adcs become healthier, while not removing power but encouraging competency for the same results.

Lethal tempo vs press the attack both equate to, auto attack super fast with crits, or making crits his harder, all within similar windows of time, the damage boost is comparable on adcs, but PTA is also better used by reset adcs , lethal tempo is best used by right click adcs.

MF kinda struggles with both, though she can use them, she still struggles with them comparitively to comet.

PTA is great on lucian, but he's kinda shitty with attack speed, and as an early game styled adc, maybe it's healthier for him to be in the domination tree with pta.

But in adition look at irelia or riven, both of which don't really want all that much attack speed but they want to weave autos. Tell me PTA wouldn't be a good solution for them?

Meanwhile tristana gets about the same amount of bonus from PTA as she does from lethal tempo, as does cait.

Vayne. who is great with attack speed, also stands to gain from taking domination and press the attack over precision and lethal tempo, I think her lethality style is more enjoyable to play as and has more realistic ratios on both early and late game.

Then you have guys like Kled, who would love having domination.

So MF and Jhin using comet

Ok so what about Velkoz and Xerath? well they get good bonus from aery and can use that well enough, mostly they take the sorc tree for the raw stats it offers.

I'm trying to think of a champion who would be affected negatively in this reshuffle

woodvsmurph1 votes

Riven and irelia don't want pta. Irelia could use it due to some attack speed in her items, but it's 3 aa's in a row to get some burst and then amp damage to target by a percent. Riven can't use auto-animation canceling to proc pta; she can use it after - with the boosted damage it gives, but she has to land 3 aa's w/o auto-animation canceling first; not a good thing for riven who wants to dash in and out of a fight.

Irelia is more ok with extended trades; kinda like jax, but not as much. So she can proc pta and then combo spells and aa's and use it ok.

Renekton can use it because you simply get empowered w, that proc's pta and then all additional aa's and abilities deal the extra %damage.

Kled is probably best with grasp - since it gives you that extra hp for skarl AND he's all about just never dying. It should make him seriously hard to finish off when he gets dismounted too.

Hammermancer1 votes

{quoted}

Riven and irelia don't want pta. Irelia could use it due to some attack speed in her items, but it's 3 aa's in a row to get some burst and then amp damage to target by a percent. Riven can't use auto-animation canceling to proc pta; she can use it after - with the boosted damage it gives, but she has to land 3 aa's w/o auto-animation canceling first; not a good thing for riven who wants to dash in and out of a fight.

Irelia is more ok with extended trades; kinda like jax, but not as much. So she can proc pta and then combo spells and aa's and use it ok.

Renekton can use it because you simply get empowered w, that proc's pta and then all additional aa's and abilities deal the extra %damage.

Kled is probably best with grasp - since it gives you that extra hp for skarl AND he's all about just never dying. It should make him seriously hard to finish off when he gets dismounted too.

so riven and irelia, maybe i was wrong on pta on specifically them, can take electrocute.... which was put in sorcery which is s tree that works for them anyways

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