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I'm just gonna say it: Bad players don't deserve bad attitude

Hammermancer··88 votes·4,373 views

Look, I've seen a lot of players both better and worse than me. I have had 30 kill games and i've had 15 death games, I've fed my ass off, and I've carried hard. Neither of those make me a better or worse person

Players who are bad at this game do not deserve to be scolded. If your bot lane has a 41% winrate, then they're just gonna sink until they're in proper MMR or they improve. if they're feeding their ass off you do not have any obligation, or duty, or honestly any form of magic highground to insult and demean those people.

Imagine this: you're getting stomped by someone far better than you in lane, you're trying your best but you're just getting fucked, you're not that good and no matter what you do you get completely and utterly descimated

Ok, well that sucks, you feel like shit.. Now imagine that your team, who you feel you're letting down, starts being like "GG report bot" or "Omg feeding bot just stay under tower". What the fuck is that gonna do to your mood?

ok so here's where it gets... better

If you want to say something, say words of encouragement, either tactical input (Though don't expect it to manifest in that match) or maybe offer a lane swap. Maybe say some words to raise the moral of that teammate like "Hey guys just hold the tower, I'm gonna finish my lane and get you to your power spikes"

don't be a dick, it's just being civil. If you lose a game because of 'shitters' then whatever, you'll probably win the next one right? Are you really playing just for MMR? Or are you playing to enjoy the game?

next up is the honest to goodness truth. You've been matched with these people, which means over the course of your gameplay you have been tagged as the same level of skill as them, either that's a massive glitch and you should be challeng0r, or maybe these people are just on a slump, and you're actually just as bad or good as them.

If you're gonna care about only wins, then act like it and don't cry about the issues, a winner takes what he's got and makes it work more often than not, a loser... well a loser gets a setback and gives up, goes home, and cries to grandma.

If somebody is not griefing, inting (Not just feeding, but INTENTIONALLLY feeding, with obvious admittance of their actions), or otherwise trying to make your life worse then you don't even have any level of justification, within the rules or outside of them, to open your malice filled shit eating piehole and trash talk them.

Did you gank mid and the mid laner didn't go in with you? Well tough shit, he's bad, whatever get over it. If you're so fucking good you'll climb.

Did you get camped top lane and lose because jungle was only ganking mid and bot? Well fucking deal with it, man up and win the game. You have a personal setback and you need to just play with this. The enemy team Wants you to tilt. It's actually perfectly fair to have 'competitive banter', and flash masteries, every time you roam and kill someone, because if they tilt, they've just thrown.

Did the 0/4 tristana just fucking throw the game for your team because she got shit on in lane? Well then, if you're so much better than her, why didn't you make your enemy lane opponent 0/10 too? because statistically, the enemy is as bad as your team.

if you're so worried about how OP a fed adc is then start playing adc and winning mr good. Also in that game maybe you should just go follow your braindead no-skill adc and get them a bunch of kills and assists so they can start no-skilling the enemy team to death.

Yeah some people are just bad... but there's a part of that sentence..."people".

Don't be a dick

~Ub3r

102 Comments

Zero Shingetsu29 votes

Often times, "bad" players know what they're doing and are having an off game, yet people trash them as though they're doing it on purpose or are complete noobs. It's a disgrace.

Hibeki2 votes

If you realize you are doing bad and dont attempt to change it, that becomes purpose.

Zero Shingetsu4 votes

{quoted}

If you realize you are doing bad and dont attempt to change it, that becomes purpose.

I want you to look at this statement:

Master Yi deals 886 damage per second. Master Yi has 15% lifesteal. Master Yi's target, Garen, has 300 armor. Master Yi buys +15 Lethality.

Now I want you to use the concept of quantitative derivatives to deduce the actual percentile value of Master Yi's derived healing per second. Show me your aggregate coefficients. I will wait.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Struggling? Attempt to change that outcome. I will wait.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Now let me ask you a question. Is your poor performance at this mathematical deduction something you're doing on purpose?

Hibeki1 votes

/r/iamverysmart

if you walk into a situation that youre obviously going to die from the mistake is getting into that situation in the fucking first place

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

{quoted}

/r/iamverysmart

if you walk into a situation that youre obviously going to die from the mistake is getting into that situation in the fucking first place

What a mundane reply. For the record, the point of my "being smart" wasn't for its own sake. It was an attempt to show you in practice that some things aren't possible for some people. The ADC is having a bad game. Maybe it's the matchup. Maybe it's subconscious distractions. Maybe he's just learning the role. Whatever the case, it's entirely possible they aren't (yet) capable of doing what you suggest effectively. That doesn't mean they're being bad on purpose.

Hibeki1 votes

Yeah no, maybe in low elo. But in mid-higher elo theres a general practice of the game and an expectation that you need to meet, and its entirely your fault if you don't. This is what we refer to as 'boosted'.

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah no, maybe in low elo. But in mid-higher elo theres a general practice of the game and an expectation that you need to meet, and its entirely your fault if you don't. This is what we refer to as 'boosted'.

If you'd do the math, the prosaic mean of this game lies in what most refer to as "low elo". This is what my statement refers to. If you were truly so bad at the game as this discussion presupposes, would you be in high ELO to begin with? It don't care how "boosted" you are, you won't stay there long if you play solo queue long enough.

If circumstances allow a boosted player to remain elevated beyond his substantial potentiality, that's on Riot and there's nothing you, I, or anyone else without a paycheck from Riot can do about it. Learn to deal with it. That's the entire point of the argument. That learning to deal with it - and I stress deal with it, not merely tolerate it - will make for more enjoyable games, and more frequent wins.

Someone who bitches about a problem and lashes out at those who offer solutions doesn't want things to change, he merely wants to act out. This is behavioral regression to a neonate state, and should probably be avoided for the health of oneself and one's friends.

Hibeki1 votes

I dont expect a silver player to understand evrything and i give them some slack.

But what I have a problem with is when the silver player is told what they can do to prevent that and dont listen to the solution. That then becomes intent.

Even plat and above (mid elo) if you dont meet that expectation i have every right to flame you. People act like in challenger its ok to act like a retard and be a liability. there are expectations just like everything else and you need to meet them

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

Well again, unfortunately, if you don't know what you're doing by the time you hit plat and diamond, you were probably boosted and it's on Riot to solve that dilemma.

Hibeki1 votes

I know what im doing. Most players know what they are doing.

The problem is the lack of self reflection in this game. League of Legends and Overwatch have become a totally PC environment where all criticism is taken offensively and you cant use any mean words and everything must be hunkey dory

I dont give a single fuck what anyone here says. This is literally the only competitive environment in the fucking world like this. To say 'this is how it should be' is total dogshit, because this pc garbage only works in an environment where the bad stop being able to play because no teams will take them.

You have an expectation to meet. Its not on everyone else to cope with your god awful play. Its on YOU to bring your skill and play up to that expectation you put yourself in. End of story. No wolf analogy, no rebuttal, this is how it has been and how almost every other environment in the world has been since the beginning of society and competition in of itself. This is a dog eat dog world. Get over it.

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

First and foremost, I meant a general "you", as in the people you were speaking of. So let me clear that up right now.

As for the rest of this, you're not wrong, except your taking it a bit too seriously. You're talking about a hobby. Can you imagine if kids playing tag on the playground expected such perfection of one another? Can you imagine if a pair of friends bowling against a couple of guys in the alley were this harsh on one another? No, because it's absurd.

Video games were invented for children. They've since become the hobby of young adults, but that doesn't really matter, because even adult hobbies aren't taken this seriously. No one tells their buddy in fishing competition, "YOU HAVE A JOB TO DO. YOU HAVE EXPECTATIONS. YOU KNEW THIS WHEN YOU GOT IN THE BOAT. CATCH SOME FUCKING FISH OR SWIM BACK TO SHORE ON YOUR OWN, I'M NOT CARRYING DEAD WEIGHT."

League of Legends and Overwatch are PC environments because they're entertainment before they're competition. Riot and Blizzard make their money off of people enjoying the game. When serious players rip the less stalwart apart for poor play, they stop playing, and the companies lose money. Obviously, a company is going to protect its profit margins above all else. "Well I'll stop playing if they don't let me criticize." Well and good, except the company cares less about you.

Statistically, the vast majority of prosaic victual emolument comes from the casual players who just want a good time. Competitive games are simply the old single-player console games you'd play as a kid, with the added element of allowing you to test yourself against other players. Casual players won't play a video game expecting to get ripped apart in the hopes if improving their performance. You're addressing competitive gaming like it's the same as professional sports. Pro football demands a great deal of its players because money is on the line. If a guy in a pickup game said to his teammates anything you've said here, they'd leave to go play with people who knew how to enjoy themselves.

You have expectations to meet in a career because the company's profits are on the line, and with them, goods and services for the masses. You have expectations to meet on the battlefield because lives are at risk. You have expectations to meet in professional sports because you're being paid millions of dollars to entertain the masses at peak performance levels. You have expectations to meet when studying because your own livelihood is at stake, and the reputation of the university suffers if its graduates go nowhere in life. In everyday life, there are absolutely cases in which putting aside "PC garbage" could stand to be cast aside, and saying it's a "dog eat dog world" is relevant.

A video game is not one of them.

NaughtyWord1 votes

When I see an ADC with 10+ deaths, 9 times out of 10, it is that way because nobody is peeling for them in team fights. I've spectated games where assassins walked--yes walked, not used some ability--right past tanks, support, and the midlaner, and chewed up the ADC.

While you can't read the chat, I'd bet blind that ADC got railed for "feeding".

If your ADC has a lot of deaths, take a moment to see if anyone has bothered to peel for them.

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

Precisely. As a tank main, I'm especially conscious of this. The ADC is the one who most often gets trashed for feeding, yet the ADC is the one who is most reliant on his team. If the ADC is feeding, oftentimes it's because the tank isn't adapting to the ADC's style of play and is allowing him to take too much heat.

NaughtyWord1 votes

Yup, I mostly support, and I mostly support with Poppy. My #1 priority is to Heroic Charge into ANYTHING that even looks at my ADC funny throughout the entire game.

Tykenn2 votes

Agreed, I've had times where I've given up first blood with in the two minute mark, only to carry the game shortly after. People really need to stop giving you snap judgements.

My best advice is to just mute the person who starts that shit, trust me you will gain nothing but a distraction from seeing their messages after that.

Xonra1 votes

Sometimes people get hard camped, are against a duo top/jungle and your life is gonna be miserable, you got counter picked, maybe in the middle of the game your internet just shits the bed.

Yet you have those people just running them down ALL game long as if they've never had anything but a positive high KDA while they are sitting in silver 5 trash talking on people.

LateCustomer17 votes

I don't have any issues with a player having a rough time. My issue is a player having a rough time and then giving up, or worse, acting like it's everyone else's fault. The former doesn't care anymore and the later just flames their team.

People have poor games. Recognize that some players are trying to help you and learn to be carried gracefully.

2Charmnot2Charm3 votes

This annoys me when they keep making the same mistake over and over again. They don't even listen to quick tips that you give them (without trying to sound rude because of their weak minds) and will continue to make the game worse for the rest of the team.

NorthernRedStar2 votes

{quoted}

I don't have any issues with a player having a rough time. My issue is a player having a rough time and then giving up, or worse, acting like it's everyone else's fault. The former doesn't care anymore and the later just flames their team.

People have poor games. Recognize that some players are trying to help you and learn to be carried gracefully.

This.

It's not that people feed. It's that the feeding often results in a tilted player starting to int.

And that's where people have an issue.

SirLapse1 votes

Is it really inting when the enemy can legit dive them after they die once depending on the matchup? So many people will flame you when you legit got died and act as though "playing back" will make any difference. It's actually rather triggering.

NorthernRedStar2 votes

{quoted}

Is it really inting when the enemy can legit dive them after they die once depending on the matchup? So many people will flame you when you legit got died and act as though "playing back" will make any difference. It's actually rather triggering.

So you pick your champion into said matchup knowing one death will result in you getting dove over and over while feeding your brains out? And you weren't confident in being capable of playing said matchup out in your favor, in the first place.

That's not a very smart game plan, is it?

SirLapse1 votes

Not everyone is aware of the circumstances and more than anything else the argument shouldn't change just because the champion does. It's not tilt to be picking that champion is the point, and it's biased to just be acting like it's inting from the pick itself. That's the complete opposite of what this topic is about.

NorthernRedStar1 votes

People should understand, especially this long into the season, that the game's largely about what you pick and into what.

If you don't care about pick and ban phase, you essentially don't care about a large portion of the game. And it directly relates to the topic at hand - are you trying your best if this happens?

Games require you to work with the information at hand. If you're not good enough to use this information, you can try and get better at understanding it, or you can complain and cry.

The latter sounds much like what the OP's talking about.

SirLapse1 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l7K89uka,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-03-26T23:16:41.913+0000)

If somebody is not griefing, inting (Not just feeding, but INTENTIONALLLY feeding, with obvious admittance of their actions), or otherwise trying to make your life worse then you don't even have any level of justification, within the rules or outside of them, to open your malice filled shit eating piehole and trash talk them.

I'm speaking well within the scenario that someone gets punished for their pick and will unfairly get flamed by their team regardless of how aggressively or defensively they are playing. OP is saying that bad players don't deserve bad attitudes. You cherrypicked his post.

EiriMatsu1 votes

That's assuming they picked into the match-up. What about players who get counter-picked? Not much a top laner can do if they're first pick and no one in the lobby is able and/or willing to trade. You're going in blind, and anyone sub-plat can't be expected to be capable of playing against any match-up with a single champ unless they snag an OP-for-the-patch pick that doesn't get banned.

NorthernRedStar1 votes

If you're afraid of getting counterpicked, or doubt your ability to play the matchup, you can always ask for a trade. Or just work a safe pick, a tank for example. You could always just dodge too. People really undervalue the ability to dodge an unfavorable game, don't they?

As for the sub-plat, the road goes both ways, doesn't it? Unless the enemy laner is a smurf, why should more be expected of them?

Scary Door8 votes

"Bad players" are one thing, but "bad players" that refuse to improve are incredibly frustrating.

One of my (IRL) friends still plays this game and is absolutely dreadful... they make basically no effort to improve despite suggestions as to what items to buy, when to use abilities, positioning, reading patch notes, etc.

I see those people flaming away at my friend in chat and I pretty much just have to keep my mouth shut, because while they are assholes for being so harsh, they aren't really wrong. Some people just refuse to improve even if they've been playing for years.

Sammystorm4 votes

except they are wrong to treat your friend like that. There is no reason to be a dick even if they don't want to improve. They are allowed to play the game for fun and it is reasonable to expect to be treated like a decent human being. Eventually your friend might quit if he is still being treated that way in the future.

It Hertz When IP2 votes

^^ If someone doesn't want to improve, that's on them. If you're really so much better than they are, you'll start moving up in MMR and shouldn't see them again. If not, either matchmaking is fucked up (in which case it's not the bad player's fault) or you aren't the hot shit you think you are (still not the bad player's fault). Either way, raging solves nothing.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

Wait what? Excuse me? I mean yeah they are indeed allowed to play the game for fun and whatnot. But there is a line. But playing like shit because you refuse to improve is downright wrong. Because this will lead on sabotaging your team. And your team might want to win, essentially ruining the game for them.

Votable Jester1 votes

So long as they are consistently doing that (not just every so often to troll their team), they should eventually drop down to an mmr where everyone is that bad anyways.

Sammystorm1 votes

I am not saying they should go into ranked but saying they don't deserve to play or that they don't deserve to be treated decently is the wrong thing here. I doubt they are actively trying to sabatoge a team. More that they are just bad.

Nyarlathοtep

Again because they refuse to improve, their enemy will most likely feed of them and scale much much faster. Essentially helping the enemy through their refusal to improve.

Sammystorm1 votes

How is that different then someone having a bad game? How do you propose we detect and get rid of these people? Have friends report them?

Nyarlathοtep

Someone having a bad game=/=someone being bad because he refuses to improve. And i never said get rid of them because frankly, we cant. I started commenting because someone was with the logic "If someone doesn't want to improve, that's on them". I dont really like this word but well here goes nothing. Its triggering. Its so damn infuriating, playing your lane and doing good (not to the point of snowballing), only to press tab and see your teammate to has fed his ass off. And then learn that he is plainly bad and that he refuses to learn to play.

Sammystorm1 votes

Except someone having a bad game might feed just as badly as someone not wanting to learn. I understand the sentiment but there is no way to know whether it is a bad game or just a bad player unless you know the person in which case you can choose to not play weith them

abca981 votes

Oh yeah fantastic, but people who refuse to have a minimum knowledge of the game should not be paired with people that read aptch notes, know how to counterbuild , and etc.

Sammystorm1 votes

How do you propose we achieve that? Force people to read patch notes? check peoples search history?

abca981 votes

Well the system should detect things like the Syndra I just played against, who got roflstomped by our Talon becasue she refused to buy a Zhonya, ending 2/11

Sammystorm1 votes

How? I have had bad games where I end up like 2/9. Yet I read patch notes. There is no good way to detect things like that. I also am not convinced that we should detect things like that

BacardiBear7 votes

too bad most bad players dont realize they're bad and they blame others while refusing to actually listen as to why they're wrong.

tunehunter5 votes

From a bad player (lucked into gold v in seasons 5 and 6, but mostly play at silver 3 or lower) I have to say thank you for this. I do feel bad sometimes that the game still puts me at mmr's I do not think I deserve because I am extremely lucky with team mates that can carry time after time because my bad plays really do hurt my team, but I am not doing it on purpose. I am just playing the best I can and that just isn't that amazing. I do enjoy this game from time to time because amazingly I have found a lot of nice people playing. For a game known for its toxicity there are a surprising number of nice people that are just trying to have fun. Maybe that is part of my luck as well. Remember people be friendly it makes your team feel better and when they feel better they do better. Even trash players like me can do alright when we don't deal with toxic attitudes.

GentlemanGhidora5 votes

Yup, making the most with what you got is sometimes the only thing you can do. My latest Jax game last night? I bought pink ward to help with 4-man blue invade at my Amumu’s blue and they had a teemo jungler, thresh support, lux mid. I had ignite and barrier. Despite taking E first, I managed to die after all the invade stuff cleared off (not first blood), minion block at level one when lux hit 2 before me.

I had a ROUGH time, constantly roaming bot to help Lucian out, get vision, etc. Eventually was level 5 when lux was 8 and most everyone else was 6 or 7. I had GARBAGE CS but knew I had to build damage despite taking tanky runes to earn gold for a proper mid game to late-game.

I died a few more times to sacrificing myself for shutdown gold and lost first turret. But damn we got every damn dragon (sucky double air/double ocean) and rift herald, even a baron. I had to mute ping spamming rage jungler and support volibear who kept throwing up surrender votes and flaming team but I helped Sion top push turrets and followed Lucian as he wandered trying to farm where he could. We mostly ignored bot lane since Amumu and Voli constantly overcommitted to protecting it unless there were free kills and we just HAPPENED to be in the area.

I was surprised to get highest vision score because of just how much I warded, cleared, and pink’d anything whenever it was discovered. I avoided flighting Lux like the plague and abused teemo not understanding he cannot all-in me alone as I build myself like an assassin.

I WANTED to give 2 people choice words but I didn’t. I just muted, and kept using hit-and-run tactics (as did Lucian), pushed turrets as I could, and REFUSED to take needless risks once we got starting stabilizing and getting ahead. We didn’t need a third person feeding because of stubbornness and impatience.

I bet if I just did the same old stuff I usually do to adapt to the situation, the game would have dragged on too long and we’d get outscaled.

That game took me totally out of my comfort zone and I dare say it was healthy and informative how being put on the defensive so early and often gave me clarity.

Still stressful as hell and I don’t want to repeat the experience but I am glad I saw it for what it was: a chance to prove how to learn my limits.

Edit: And yes, we won.

Snowman Arc3 votes

Tell me about climbing, when I've lost 10 of my last games because I've had an AFKer. Over the last 40 games, I had 4 of them lost because someone admitted to trolling, and 7 of them had an AFKer. Some other games were lost simple because the enemy team was better (even if in some of those games I was doing well).

With this in mind, sure I can climb, but I don't wanna play 2k games to do that. I had played 150 games with a 62% winrate from gold 4 to plat 3. Now, I'm at plat 4 with a 54% winrate, because of those last 40 games. I don't understand how I'm supposed to climb if this thing keeps on going, honestly. Again, as I said, I don't want to play 2k games for this whole thing to even out. Therefore, sometimes, when someone is doing something wrong and it can potentially cost me the game, sorry, but in some cases, they gotta get that talk. Am I toxic? No, I wasn't. I wasn't till that point where I lost 12 straight matches because I had trolls, AFKs or the matchmaking was matching me with worse players, and I'm just a Janna main, there's just so much I can do to carry.

Sammystorm3 votes

First 1 Afk in your recent history. So that clearly isn't as bad of a problem as you say it is. Second you hardly "just main" janna. You have 20 games on 3 other champs and 10 on others. You aren't really getting matched with worse players. The game mmr is about your mmr every time. Meaning the people you play with are about your skill level. If that wasn't the case you would have higher then 54% win rate. Honestly it sounds like your attitude and you not otping janna are the reasons it is taking forever to climb. Not "trolls, afk's, or worse players".

JRobin313 votes

I'm gonna make a distinction here: 'bad' players could probably benefit from constructive criticism which is to say: 'bad' players 'deserve' constructive criticism but I'm not sure any players 'deserve' destructive criticism on the basis of being 'good' or 'bad'. Destructive criticism only seems to 'benefit' the critic.

AwesomeGuyDj3 votes

I like when people pull the bronze card in game. Its fun because they're in the same MMR as me or otherwise i wouldnt play against them. (Tho the occasional gold or whatnot from playing with friends but whatev) Also. People have to realise that you wont win everygame, you wont hyper carry every game etc. Sometimes you have to accept that your not gunna win the game for your team, and learn that you have to help the people who WILL win the game. (Like your fed adc/mid)

Tacosrock3 votes

It's a shame that you actually have to say this. It's amazing how childish some people are, even in high elo, with how much someone can just slam a person for doing poorly, even if that means 1 mistake. Maybe if we had a little less negativity, the community wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is, and games would go a little better with some sportsmanship. But nah!

Reanimatrix1 votes

I never feed and my win ratio is like 35% love this game =D

SirLime1 votes

{quoted}

I never feed and my win ratio is like 35% love this game =D

Game's not really about KDA. I can be at fountain and never feed. It's about map pressure. If a Singed or Trynd goes 0 7 but forces 3 top for half the game, that's a lot more useful than 0 0 but creating no space.

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