ADCs are getting nerfed in 8.6

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Some ADCs, again, are early to mid. And depending on the champion you pick yourself, as team composition is a large factor, the powerspike an ADC gains may give them a higher and lower advantage against you. This is complicated in itself.

I would say she's stronger than Twitch. The difference is the amount of peel a cass may get. There are win conditions, and with seraph's she can sustain through Twitch's initial burst to shred him down. Tristana's late-game isn't as strong as Cassiopeia's at all. Cassiopeia's kit with a grounded CC effect, her E spam, Q, and poison make her much more deadlier than Tristana. I agree with Vayne.

I say Twitch and Cass are equal, Tristana is weaker, and Vayne is stronger. Kai'Sa also beats Vayne late game.

And this is where we run into the conundrum. The reason why this is a difficult topic is because despite having a class meant to "shred tanks", you have many champions of said class excelling in the mid-game or early game in the lane which you don't face in another lane. Thus, this produces factors such as a gold difference you could not control etc. Maybe you were stopped from roaming or the enemy has more farm. Maybe they do well into your champion or counter it.

The issue, in my opinion, is that ADCs require power but due to their squishiness - nerfing them as a whole can eventually harm the class when pitted against mages, tanks, and assassins. My idea is that there simply more openings to punish ADC mistakes or moments of weakness which Riot is toying with with the heal nerf and ignite buff. They're also looking at support changes.

See, DPS from ADCs is actually not the issue. It is the fact they gain this DPS with randomized burst frequency which isn't conditional. Thus, we are seeing the shiv change.

ADCs are not coming online fast as data suggests games are slowly growing in length. At least, compared to 8.1 - cough Vayne cough - they're actually shifting more to their ideal scaling points. Games are wanted to be shorter so it may seem these openings are harder to take advantage of so we'll need to play with this more. (Riot did a survey preseason and players do ideally want shorter games. The boards is a minority)

It's only inevitable that after 3 items, ADCs come online and the rest of their item set is adaptive.

If League is truly a zero sum game, then everyone should scale at the same rate. But it's not.

What's going on here is the advantage of the marksmen class in general being ranged and having less costs than say Yasuo ADC or Cassiopeia APC. These are diverse picks that could be viable if Cass could gain mana sustain through the lane or Yasuo could gain an item to survive through the range advantage of ADCs. It's less of champions and more "why are ADCs so influential". That's due to them having access to a drake, tons of help of other lanes, and power creep.

In my opinion, ADCs should have their peel nerfed less than their scaling with tweaks to their burst frequency as a TL;DR or you'd get a very, bad meta shift where assassins are meta once again and can punish ADCs unconditionally.

first off

claiming that cass is anywhere near the lategame power of twitch or trist is laughable

and again i will say that there are "lategame" and "earlygame" subsets of the class that overlap with the curves of other claims, but you simply cannot claim in good faith that they are the exact same because of it, and i dont think that you can argue in good faith what you are right now, which is that champs like cass are AS GOOD lategame as essentially all but two of the most lategame examples of the quintessentially lategame based class.

its not a diffcult topic at all, the class known as marksmen by and large have power scaling that exceeds that of other classes, because of that there needs to be trade offs, yes there are exceptions, SOFT EXCEPTIONS and said exceptions still follow the same rule OF TRADE OFFS.

its simple, if you are stronger than everyone late, you cannot be equally as strong as everyone early

game length isnt the issue, the issue is that the window at which ADC's are dominant is too large, and thats because they come online too fast, its not uncommon for games to be over at the 10 minute mark, adc's are largely the reason for that.

when i said league if a zero sum game in terms of role balance, i wasnt just talking about scaling, i was talking about overall power, that is to say traditionally ADC's as a whole arent supposed to be as good early, because they are better late, but if you keep them as good late as always, but make them better early, that is taking power from everyone else, again its simple.

finally i dont think that nerfing ADC's early game item budget will spawn an assassin meta at all, because even if theoretically adc's did zero damage, a large majority of their burst protection comes from the support. if anything it will allow bruisers, mages and tanks to not only be stronger but more independent of the adc's in that they are relevant because they are strong, and not that they are relevant because they keep the adc alive long enough for him to penta.