Riot why is your solution to buffing underperforming champions is by always buffing their damage?

BLIGHTBRINGER·Jun 7, 2018·110 votes·20,144 views

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--MrBLtgxtYU/VlVJz7tWCPI/AAAAAAAA1XU/bOTpNkM_yUM/s1600/akali.jpg

Let's take Poppy for example. In patch V8.9 she received a nerf to her W Passive, that grants bonus Armor and Magic Resistance (Before: 15% increase / Now: 10% increase)

Then in the latest PBE update...

Hammer Shock (Q) bonus AD ratio increased from 80% to 90%

Why is the defensive side of tanks constantly being nerfed and their damage increased?

Why are damage increase buffs, always the solution to all proposed problems Riot?

99 Comments

KZ EngelJun 7, 20188 votes

because pool noodle fights are only fun in real life

BLIGHTBRINGERJun 7, 201875 votes

But it's impossible to play anything anymore without dying instantly. The game's damage constantly being increased to the point where it feels that it's a case of you attempting to kill someone fast or watch them kill you first.

The defensive side of the game is slowly becoming irrelevant; towers are made of paper, offensive summoner spells being buffed such as ignite (which is oftenly picked over exhaust), true damage now becoming almost accessable to literally every role/champion.

I know that this is a game where you fight and all but you don't live enough to have an impact or enjoy the team-fighting part, since everyone almost blows each other in a matter of seconds due to the game's current damage levels.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 8, 201812 votes

The dmg really is a fucking problem in this game but sadly riot doesn't seem to care since it is exactly what they wanted. A fast paced pew pew call of duty style of moba which honestly kills any skill, strategy and tactic in the game.

DisulfiramJun 8, 201825 votes

Do you know what's kind of funny? That we did have a game mode with fast paced short games.

It was called "Dominion", and it got so unpopular that Riot removed it from the standard modes.

For this reason imho it is possible that trying to push Summoner's Rift to have fast paced short games might prove to be... quite counterproductive.

Weiss GuertenaJun 8, 201811 votes

Riot: We know we promised map-specific balance changes, but those don't bring anything to $ummoner's Rift or LC$ so wea re axing those.

Also Riot: Why aren't people playing this game mode in which we are completely ignoring both balance issues and rampant botting? Must be that it simply isn't fun. Better remove it.

JMoriartyDKJun 8, 20184 votes

Yeah i wish they brought dominion back just to see what do all those people say now to that mode, because before it was just there so that people would talk sh it about it and felt superior for playing 5v5, kinda like they did also with 3v3, but in the state of the game right now i think that mode could became more popular. I liked it, for one.

VerxintJun 8, 20181 votes

I loved using dominion to learn new champs or experiment on builds. It was a great environment for that

Linna ExcelJun 8, 20182 votes

I feel like competition from games like Overwatch and Fortnight are probably pushing riot towards faster combat. I also think that years of people complaining about games taking too long are also contributing. The average league player has the attention span of a gnat and riot is trying to shorten games because of it.

ADC Blaming SuppJun 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEWJIpm3,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-07T22:09:09.778+0000)

But it's impossible to play anything anymore without dying instantly. The game's damage constantly being increased, to the point where it feels that it's a case of you attempting to kill someone fast or watch them kill you first.

The defensive side of the game is slowly becoming irrelevant; towers are made of paper, offensive summoner spells being buffed such as ignite (which is oftenly picked over exhaust), true damage now becoming almost accessable to literally every role/champion.

I know that this is a game where you fight and all but you don't live enough to have an impact or enjoy the team-fighting part since everyone almost blows each other in a matter of seconds due to the game's current damage levels.

And at one point they constantly nerfed champions to the point where one spell rotation in lane made you deal 25% of enemys health bar damage and everybody felt like they cant do anything?

MohawkBirdJun 7, 201824 votes

[deleted]

The Yetii RiderJun 8, 20181 votes

Top laners shouldn't be tanks, period. Top lane is about dueling, split pushing, contesting. If tanks are good enough at that, then the tank is overtuned.

Riot should have left Sunfire Cape in the trash state it was before, and let the barely five tanks that still go top move to support or jungle where they belong.

BEK MakadurJun 8, 201828 votes

That´s BS... Tnaks can definetly go top and that is fine, they cant split at least not as fast and often lack the mobility to do so too. A tank can definetly duel, even tho in mid to late unless they are fed they should obviously loose to bruisers.

Top was always the lane where you can play nearly everything and that is nice.

The Yetii RiderJun 8, 20181 votes

Top was always the lane where you can play nearly everything.

A tank can definitely duel.

Amumu Sejuani Rammus Gragas Elise Ivern Nunu RekSai Skarner TahmKench Leona Alistar Braum Thresh Zac

The majority of tanks in the League do not go top, and the reason for that is because they are shit at dueling.

Very specific tanks in the League have dueling power added into their kits, and that defies the typical tank paradigm. If you want tanks to stop dealing "too much damage", they need this dueling power removed.

Gregorovic08Jun 8, 201823 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEWJIpm3,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-08T01:27:51.503+0000)

The majority of tanks in the League do not go top, and the reason for that is because they are shit at dueling.

Very specific tanks in the League have dueling power added into their kits, and that defies the typical tank paradigm. If you want tanks to stop dealing "too much damage", they need this dueling power removed.

Woah, woah woah there, when did Elise, Ivern, Skarner, and Rek'Sai become tanks? Ivern is an enchanter, Elise is an assassin, Rek'Sai is a Skirmisher/Assassin, and Skarner is a bruiser.

Risen29Jun 8, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Woah, woah woah there, when did Elise, Ivern, Skarner, and Rek'Sai become tanks? Ivern is an enchanter, Elise is an assassin, Rek'Sai is a Skirmisher/Assassin, and Skarner is a bruiser.

Skarner is not a bruiser. Bruiser is not a riot class definition. He's a juggernaut, a subclass of fighter.

Ivern is not an enchanter, he's a catcher. A subclass of controller.

Elise is not an assassin, she's a diver. A subclass of fighter.

Rek Sai is not a skirmisher or assassin. She's a diver.

Look it up for yourself: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_Wiki

PopcornBunniJun 8, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Skarner is not a bruiser. Bruiser is not a riot class definition. He's a juggernaut, a subclass of fighter.

Ivern is not an enchanter, he's a catcher. A subclass of controller.

Elise is not an assassin, she's a diver. A subclass of fighter.

Rek Sai is not a skirmisher or assassin. She's a diver.

Look it up for yourself: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_Wiki

"Bruiser" is the catchall for Divers and Juggernauts broadly. Though Skarner probably deserves to be among the "unique playstyle" category having a nearly full tank vanguard build and a sticky juggernaut trinity force build both of which perform radically different yet are equally valid.

Risen29Jun 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

"Bruiser" is the catchall for Divers and Juggernauts broadly.

No, the word for that would be "Fighter". Bruiser is not a Riot class definition.

Though Skarner probably deserves to be among the "unique playstyle" category having a nearly full tank vanguard build and a sticky juggernaut trinity force build both of which perform radically different yet are equally valid.

Skarner really looks more like a vanguard than a juggernaut. He has more CC and initiation than most, and he has a defensive shield which usually only tanks do. Although his CC and initiation is not really on par with a lot of other vanguards, nor are his defensive amps.

It seems from probuilds that skarner is basically only built as a vanguard these days. That is probably due to all the nerfs targeting his damage. He has too much vanguardness to be allowed to have juggernaut damage. As a result of the nerfs I don't think he really fits with juggernaut anymore.

I don't think his juggernaut concept of being powerful in windows has worked out for him. He zone control didn't work out the way I think they intended. It's kind of a crappy passive IMO.

3TWarriorJun 8, 20181 votes

bruisers are more now what "juggernauts" are

bruisers used to be defined as bulky champions with high burst damage and short range unless they compensated in some manner let's take chogath as an example. Now he's a juggernaut, but before he was a bruiser that gave up almost all of his auto attack damage for a large power budget in his long-range abilities and ultimate

Yets4240Jun 8, 20181 votes

Bruiser is a class.

Its sub classes are: Divers and Juggernauts

Risen29Jun 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

bruisers used to be defined as bulky champions with high burst damage and short range unless they compensated in some manner

Close, but not quite.

Bruiser is an MMO term, also called offtanks, meaning someone who can't perform the function of a true tank for their team but they can take aggro pressure off the tank because they can take a lot of damage while still dealing a lot of damage. So they are basically damage dealers who require less babysitting by the support or the tank of the team. They might have some level of peeling and aggro management ability to keep enemies off the squishy team members long enough for the tank to re-establish control over the situation, but they can never replace the need for a true tank on the team.

Bruiser has historically been applied to LoL to be basically anyone who combines good damage with good survivability, but the champions that term use to be applied to will NOT only be found under the subclass of "Juggernaut". Most champions who use to be called bruisers will be found under the entire category of "Fighter", which includes both subclasses of Diver and Juggernaught. Some champions who use to be referred to as bruisers would also be found under the subclass of "skirmishers" under the class of "slayer" or even the subclass of "vanguards" under the class of "tank".

That's why bruiser is not a very useful definition because it's too broad ("they both take and deal damage").

Riot's system is a pretty good way of dividing up the champions into more refined understandings of how they differ from one another.

let's take chogath as an example. Now he's a juggernaut, but before he was a bruiser that gave up almost all of his auto attack damage for a large power budget in his long-range abilities and ultimate

No, he isn't a juggernaut. He's a "Specialist".

A specialist has a unique playstyle they don't share with other champions, or a unique mix of abilities that prevents them from being categorized into one classification.

lolipopevelynnJun 8, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Skarner is not a bruiser. Bruiser is not a riot class definition. He's a juggernaut, a subclass of fighter.

Ivern is not an enchanter, he's a catcher. A subclass of controller.

Elise is not an assassin, she's a diver. A subclass of fighter.

Rek Sai is not a skirmisher or assassin. She's a diver.

Look it up for yourself: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_Wiki

Fuck riots definition. He is a bruiser. Riot has no idea what they are doing anymore and i am fullt convinced of that. Im actually excited for mario 🎾 aces simply because it has potential and is more competitively FUN than league is riot now.

Sry had to vent there. But srsly all of riots "new" terms are very bad to classify a champ.

SithesisLordJun 8, 20183 votes

Except they´re not.

Elise isn´t an Assassin.

She's a Diver. The difference being that Assassins go in, kill, get out. Divers don´t. They go in, they kill and stick around.

Assassins don´t have sustain. Divers do. Elise has heals. And her main engage tool is also her escape tool.

Bruisers and Fighters are the same class. Divers and Juggernauts are subclasses of Bruisers/Fighters.

All of Riot's new definitions of classes are pretty accurate.

Fiddlesticks isn´t exactly a mage. Neither is Heimerdinger.

Quinn and Nidalee aren´t full assassins.

Azir and Kayle aren´t Marksmen.

All of those have their specific class. The Specialists.

Al The LegionJun 8, 20181 votes

Hey I wanna read about the champion classes because it sounds cool. I clicked on the link and it just goes to main wiki page. Where should I navigate to?

Risen29Jun 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Al The Legion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEWJIpm3,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2018-06-08T18:18:33.001+0000)

Hey I wanna read about the champion classes because it sounds cool. I clicked on the link and it just goes to main wiki page. Where should I navigate to?

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champion_classes

They should really do a better job of integrating this information into the client.

heroikcJun 8, 20184 votes

{quoted}

That´s BS... Tnaks can definetly go top and that is fine, they cant split at least not as fast and often lack the mobility to do so too. A tank can definetly duel, even tho in mid to late unless they are fed they should obviously loose to bruisers.

Top was always the lane where you can play nearly everything and that is nice.

Assuming they aren't kited, bashed with Conquerors, or power ganked by the new overfed jgs. Besides, their are dozens of Fighters doing the top lane job better nowadays.

BEK MakadurJun 8, 20181 votes

I din´t say that tanks are good on top right now, just that they can go there, especially in lower elo. Tahm is a great exemple for a tank that works very well on top.

heroikcJun 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I din´t say that tanks are good on top right now, just that they can go there, especially in lower elo. Tahm is a great exemple for a tank that works very well on top.

Wasn't he designed to be a support? I think he only works well because of his consume XD

BEK MakadurJun 9, 20181 votes

Actually champions were originally not designed to only fit 1 role.

heroikcJun 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Actually champions were originally not designed to only fit 1 role.

Yeah yeah, and I recall reworked Poppy being labeled as Primary: Tank Secondary: Fighter before the role classification update.

senior evilJun 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=KZ Engel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEWJIpm3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-07T22:00:23.678+0000)

because pool noodle fights are only fun in real life

why the hell are you getting down voted to hell >.>

KZ EngelJun 8, 20181 votes

because of the default format for gameplay

kaironenJun 7, 20188 votes

You do realize that current buff is only a buff on poppy if you go a few damage items, right? It's a buff for my poppy since I go titanic but most people build full tank and it won't change anything for those people. I'm ok with this change though since it opens up different build paths (the lethality poppy op). I'd like a w buff on either the percentage armor/mr , cd, or ms. I personally think poppy is more of a hybrid between a tank and a fighter but defensive buffs are probably better than damage buffs.

PopcornBunniJun 8, 20182 votes

{quoted}

You do realize that current buff is only a buff on poppy if you go a few damage items, right? It's a buff for my poppy since I go titanic but most people build full tank and it won't change anything for those people. I'm ok with this change though since it opens up different build paths (the lethality poppy op). I'd like a w buff on either the percentage armor/mr , cd, or ms. I personally think poppy is more of a hybrid between a tank and a fighter but defensive buffs are probably better than damage buffs.

item 3078 is pretty fucking good on her after the base ad buffs across the cast in preseason

I mean, that's only 5 extra damage from both hits of Q together, but it's something.

And there's Transcendence as well. 48/60/72/84 AD aren't uncommon between item 3078 / item 3025 , item 3071 item 3110 , item 3065 , item 3083 , and item 3194

BLIGHTBRINGERJun 8, 20188 votes

I'm not saying that the change is really strong or overloaded. I was only using it as example to show that Riot does do that.

taleofsonataJun 8, 20188 votes

Poppy to her Core was never meant to be a Tank even before her rework she was a fighter/diver. The Rework took that away from Poppy and made her a mainstream tank, Riot thinks that giving her damage again will solve the issue by shifting her more into a Fighter/Diver.

PopcornBunniJun 8, 20186 votes

Because tanks haven't been relevent for the last 13 months. The (bad) solution seems to be to just say fuck it and turn them into divers because tanking isn't a thing in a game full of %health and true damage on half the cast.