ARAM should have EVERY champ unlocked

ll League God ll··674 votes·52,676 views

ARAM really should make it so every person who plays it has a random chance to get any single champion thats currently available in the game.

It will make it feel more random

ARAM-Only accounts wont be stacked with OP setups anymore

It will allow people to play champs they might not otherwise be able to

And after all its a "FOR FUN" game mode, so why not apply this feature?

Edit: Catching a little steam in the thread. Some players point out riot not wanting to give access to all game content via ARAM by unlocking every champ in a random "for fun" game mode, but at the same time, my counter argument to that is that given enough time in blind pick, a player without ever purchasing a single champion, will also eventually get to experience every champion through "FREE WEEK" access. So I feel this argument as some players have pointed out, is not a valid reason as to why there can't be all champions unlocked in ARAM.

Edit 2: Solid contribution

[{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yETFlOKF,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-03-18T13:54:39.849+0000)

Personally, I think this is a terrible idea. I only have one account and it certainly not optimized for ARAM, so I'm not one of the "abusers" you are targeting. I simply do not enjoy champs I do not own; hell I don't even enjoy a few of the champs I do own.

But before you down vote, I have an idea you might like that is a compromise; there is a happy medium to be found with some changes to the way the champ select currently works for ARAM.

  • Make All Champs available!
  • Break the champ select into phases (it already is long when you don't even get to pick, so no extra time added)
  • Phase 1: Trade phase. Let people trade for champs they want. I hate it when someone rerolls a champ I wanted to trade for; they could have rerolled the champ I got stuck with and I could have had someone I enjoy. 30 seconds.
  • Phase 2: Reroll phase. Everyone gets 1 free reroll per match. Additionally, add a new feature called "Pool Roll" that will randomly select a champion you own if and only if you have at least X number of champions (the absolute minimum is 11; see math below). These rolls will be earned like they are today for normal ARAM rerolls; the larger your champ pool the faster you acquire these.

Why are these changes necessary (and why do they not break the spirit of this proposal)?

Let's ignore trades for a moment (as that math is really complicated and involves some psychology).

I own maybe 20 champs. Let's round the champ pool to 120. That means I own 16.67% of the champions in the game. That means I have a 16.67% chance of getting a champ I own (this ignores the fact I don't play all of them, so the probability of getting a champ I actually know how to play is even worse).

That means, amortized over many games, I have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a champion I own. I'm sure there are others like me who would say "I have to play 5 games I'll hate to play one game I might enjoy; no thanks" and simply stop playing ARAM.

Enter my changes. The free reroll does NOT double your chances of getting a champ you own. Think of a coin flip. If you flip a coin once, you have a 1 in 2 chance of getting heads. If you flip it twice, are you guaranteed to get heads? Nope. However, it is actually even more complex in reality.

Let's do the math; there are two ways I can get a champ I own. Let S be the number of champions that I own, and let A represent all the champs.

Either I rolled one to start (S / A) or I rerolled a champ I didn't own to try and get a champ I down using the free reroll which is the probability that I didn't roll a champ I own and then got one on the reroll.

That latter calculation is complicated. Why? Because the champion pool has been diluted; we have A - 10 champions available to you at the moment you hit that button. Up to 9 of those 10 removed could be champions you own, or 10 if you are rerolling a champ you own for some reason. That's why you have to have 11 to get the "champ I own" magic roll, so you have a champ to reroll to!

So, we need to determine the average probability you get a champ you own on a reroll (assuming you didn't already have a champ).

There are 9 cases (or 10, if you want to include yourself, but we are going "ARAM ONLY ACCOUNT" worst case, so 9).

P = ((A - S) / A) * ((S - N) / (S - 10))

Where N is the number of champions you own that are held by other players in select. The greatest chance of you getting a champ you own occurs where N is zero, so let's calculate that.

P = ((A - S) / A) * (S / (A - 10))

Plugging in my numbers from above, we get:

P = ((120 - 20) / 120) * (20 / 110)

Which is:

P = (5 / 6) * (2 / 11) = 15.15%

Making my total chance, with a free reroll, in the absolute most favorable case for me, of a whopping 31.81% chance. So just shy of 1 in 3 games I can get a champ I own (every 3 or 4 games).

That is pretty reasonable! Remember, that is the absolute most favorable outcome for me; on the flip side (assuming the 9 other champs are champs I own, the calculation becomes really unfriendly very quickly for small pool accounts, which are what ARAM only accounts tend to be, and more and more friendly the more champions you own).

So, basically I have created a system that punishes ARAM only accounts (and small pool accounts like my own; see below on how I my plan offsets this) while rewarding those who play a wide range of champions.

Champion Pool Only Reroll

Now, there are those of thus who don't want to own a large champion pool; why should we be punished for those who abuse the system?

Enter the "Pool Roll". You earn these based on your champion pool size just like you do normal rerolls today. This allows you to guarantee you reroll a champ you own. This is awesome for small pool champ accounts (small pool accounts tend to be more experienced over all per champ than large champ pool accounts), though it will be available less frequently than large pool accounts (softening the impact).

This means that if all else fails, I have an option to at least play a champion I own.

How fast these special rolls are earned is something that should be investigated; given the new trade phase and free reroll, I'm pretty sure it should not be as quickly as normal rerolls are earned currently.

This strikes a balance as it makes ARAM only accounts less attractive while lessening the punishment of those who don't want to play a wide variety of champs. This also provides incentive to those of us in the latter category to pony up and play a champ we don't know or like to earn that guaranteed chance to play a champion we do know and like.

180 Comments

DucksGoMooful47 votes

I got Pantheon in an ARAM back when I was around level 10, first time playing him. I was saving up for Twitch but he was on free week and I enjoyed him so much I bought him right after the game ended.

This idea comes up every couple of weeks about having ARAM be "truly random", it always gets upvoted, but nothing ever gets changed :(

I'm totally agreeing with the idea though :)

cuddlykitten44 votes

It would affect your ability to get rerolls. You get an extra point towards your reroll for every champion in your pool.

Warlord Zudane8 votes

Then make it not affect rerolls. Or to make it so you are more likely to get one from your own pool make it a 50% chance from your own pool and a 50% chance from the entire champ pool (this means your champs are all doubled).

I'd love more variety on ARAM.

Matezoide35 votes

But muh abuse

Jari14 votes

Mah Nid spears.

skyknyt12 votes

muh teemo shrooms

Jari9 votes

Meh Lux Ults.

somebeety4 votes

Muh Xerath Q

Ayame Isaki13 votes

Personally, I think this is a terrible idea. I only have one account and it certainly not optimized for ARAM, so I'm not one of the "abusers" you are targeting. I simply do not enjoy champs I do not own; hell I don't even enjoy a few of the champs I do own.

But before you down vote, I have an idea you might like that is a compromise; there is a happy medium to be found with some changes to the way the champ select currently works for ARAM.

  • Make All Champs available!
  • Break the champ select into phases (it already is long when you don't even get to pick, so no extra time added)
  • Phase 1: Trade phase. Let people trade for champs they want. I hate it when someone rerolls a champ I wanted to trade for; they could have rerolled the champ I got stuck with and I could have had someone I enjoy. 30 seconds.
  • Phase 2: Reroll phase. Everyone gets 1 free reroll per match. Additionally, add a new feature called "Pool Roll" that will randomly select a champion you own if and only if you have at least X number of champions (the absolute minimum is 11; see math below). These rolls will be earned like they are today for normal ARAM rerolls; the larger your champ pool the faster you acquire these.

Why are these changes necessary (and why do they not break the spirit of this proposal)?

Let's ignore trades for a moment (as that math is really complicated and involves some psychology).

I own maybe 20 champs. Let's round the champ pool to 120. That means I own 16.67% of the champions in the game. That means I have a 16.67% chance of getting a champ I own (this ignores the fact I don't play all of them, so the probability of getting a champ I actually know how to play is even worse).

That means, amortized over many games, I have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a champion I own. I'm sure there are others like me who would say "I have to play 5 games I'll hate to play one game I might enjoy; no thanks" and simply stop playing ARAM.

Enter my changes. The free reroll does NOT double your chances of getting a champ you own. Think of a coin flip. If you flip a coin once, you have a 1 in 2 chance of getting heads. If you flip it twice, are you guaranteed to get heads? Nope. However, it is actually even more complex in reality.

Let's do the math; there are two ways I can get a champ I own. Let S be the number of champions that I own, and let A represent all the champs.

Either I rolled one to start (S / A) or I rerolled a champ I didn't own to try and get a champ I down using the free reroll which is the probability that I didn't roll a champ I own and then got one on the reroll.

That latter calculation is complicated. Why? Because the champion pool has been diluted; we have A - 10 champions available to you at the moment you hit that button. Up to 9 of those 10 removed could be champions you own, or 10 if you are rerolling a champ you own for some reason. That's why you have to have 11 to get the "champ I own" magic roll, so you have a champ to reroll to!

So, we need to determine the average probability you get a champ you own on a reroll (assuming you didn't already have a champ).

There are 9 cases (or 10, if you want to include yourself, but we are going "ARAM ONLY ACCOUNT" worst case, so 9).

P = ((A - S) / A) * ((S - N) / (S - 10))

Where N is the number of champions you own that are held by other players in select. The greatest chance of you getting a champ you own occurs where N is zero, so let's calculate that.

P = ((A - S) / A) * (S / (A - 10))

Plugging in my numbers from above, we get:

P = ((120 - 20) / 120) * (20 / 110)

Which is:

P = (5 / 6) * (2 / 11) = 15.15%

Making my total chance, with a free reroll, in the absolute most favorable case for me, of a whopping 31.81% chance. So just shy of 1 in 3 games I can get a champ I own (every 3 or 4 games).

That is pretty reasonable! Remember, that is the absolute most favorable outcome for me; on the flip side (assuming the 9 other champs are champs I own, the calculation becomes really unfriendly very quickly for small pool accounts, which are what ARAM only accounts tend to be, and more and more friendly the more champions you own).

So, basically I have created a system that punishes ARAM only accounts (and small pool accounts like my own; see below on how I my plan offsets this) while rewarding those who play a wide range of champions.

Champion Pool Only Reroll

Now, there are those of thus who don't want to own a large champion pool; why should we be punished for those who abuse the system?

Enter the "Pool Roll". You earn these based on your champion pool size just like you do normal rerolls today. This allows you to guarantee you reroll a champ you own. This is awesome for small pool champ accounts (small pool accounts tend to be more experienced over all per champ than large champ pool accounts), though it will be available less frequently than large pool accounts (softening the impact).

This means that if all else fails, I have an option to at least play a champion I own.

How fast these special rolls are earned is something that should be investigated; given the new trade phase and free reroll, I'm pretty sure it should not be as quickly as normal rerolls are earned currently.

This strikes a balance as it makes ARAM only accounts less attractive while lessening the punishment of those who don't want to play a wide variety of champs. This also provides incentive to those of us in the latter category to pony up and play a champ we don't know or like to earn that guaranteed chance to play a champion we do know and like.

Cásper2 votes

Well hell I can't disagree. Bumped.. and nice math and equation use ^.^ [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Souchy12 votes

Please stop it with this idea of unlocking all champs in aram. Saying the game is "FOR FUN" and forcing us to play champs we don't like / are not able to play decently is terribly contradictory. I don't even see that many all-god-tier-champ teams even though I play almost only aram, and, tbf, there's always a chance that your comp will counter or out-scale them ( + if they have op champs, chances are you have some too). There's also practically no really useless champ in aram with the snowball spell. The game mode even encourages off-meta builds like full ap maokai, nasus, malphite, etc.

edit: Why downvote so much ? I'm just saying that being forced to play champs I don't like is not fun (even though aram is supposed to be fun, like you're saying) and that most champs can work in aram even if you would not think so at first. I don't play ARAM just to win either, I don't play champs like lux, ziggs, etc. I just play champs that I like and that's all (and even some that I don't actually like). I don't understand the salt here. I'm not opposed to changes, but, imo, there are better ways to do it.

love god7 votes

{quoted}

Please stop it with this idea of unlocking all champs in aram. Saying the game is "FOR FUN" and forcing us to play champs we don't like / are not able to play decently is terribly contradictory. I don't even see that many all-god-tier-champ teams even though I play almost only aram, and, tbf, there's always a chance that your comp will counter or out-scale them ( + if they have op champs, chances are you have some too). There's also practically no really useless champ in aram with the snowball spell. The game mode even encourages off-meta builds like full ap maokai, nasus, malphite, etc.

Yes and off meta builds are fun. You just said that it encourages something that is fun, and stated that it isn't a game mode for fun. What is your point, do you hate fun?

Saixos10 votes

You've misunderstood, he said that forcing players to play champions they do not find enjoyable should not be a part of a gamemode which is supposed to be "for fun".

DarkRitual13 votes

Unless that game mode is Nemesis Draft.

Quort7 votes

But you know what you're getting into when you choose to play Nemesis Draft and, for a lot of people, having others choose your champion is not fun (that's why I never played it) When you play ARAM you expect to get a Champion that you own and have some knowledge of.

love god3 votes

{quoted}

You've misunderstood, he said that forcing players to play champions they do not find enjoyable should not be a part of a gamemode which is supposed to be "for fun".

I don't think I misunderstood anything, the commenter said that you shouldn't say that ARAM is for fun

Souchy4 votes

No, Saixos is the one who understood me correctly.

Mhihnj11 votes

key reasons to play aram-

  • Play new champs
  • Learn combos and teamfighting
  • It's fun(Except when you meet these little s**tsNidalee Teemo Annie Lux )
No flash no life8 votes

-all champs unlocked- People: pls remove Evelynn and Yorick from aram.

DU Baymax7 votes

while we're at it let's remove veigar, malphite, lux, heimerdinger, brand, orianna, galio, and basically every champion that has an aoe ultimate or strong aoe abilities.

Knoyle15 votes

Honestly I'm ok with Illaoi being permabanned.

Solitair4 votes

zz she's so easy to deal with tho

Knoyle13 votes

Well again it's not myself I'm worried about getting rekt. I have 4 other poor mofos with me.

blkKalameet3 votes

id rather deal with all of that than go against a god tear aram champ team every other game. Im being punished for having more champions unlocked if i play this gamemode.

ChaoticPinecone5 votes

Why? As someone with around 2800 games on ARAM, Eve and Yorick are just fine. Eve has to go AD though because she cant really flank as an AP Assassin (hybrid pen reds, scaling AP blues, flat AP quints, 12-18-0, trinity/randiuns/spirit visage is my usual build). Yorick needs 2 item - manamune and iceborn - and can solo dive or be a frontliner, depending on the situation. He has decent poke and damage early too though, if youre team can start fights.

Udyr on the other hand is useless until 4 items. Ive found some success going full engage Udyr - Guardians Horn, Righteous Glory, Deadman - but you arent too useful before then. If youre team can hold out until that point, you do okay.

bro0rtega2 votes

{quoted}

Why? As someone with around 2800 games on ARAM, Eve and Yorick are just fine. Eve has to go AD though because she cant really flank as an AP Assassin (hybrid pen reds, scaling AP blues, flat AP quints, 12-18-0, trinity/randiuns/spirit visage is my usual build). Yorick needs 2 item - manamune and iceborn - and can solo dive or be a frontliner, depending on the situation. He has decent poke and damage early too though, if youre team can start fights.

Udyr on the other hand is useless until 4 items. Ive found some success going full engage Udyr - Guardians Horn, Righteous Glory, Deadman - but you arent too useful before then. If youre team can hold out until that point, you do okay.

With some good and bad udyr builds on ARAM, I went against a high squishy team, but all range while my team was just melee. I went full damage first, with my damage I would wait in the back until I saw a good opportunity to assassinate someone squishy. I died around as much as I killed early on, then late game came. I got like 2 penta kills, and a couple triples and quadras.

I just find udyr doesn't have enough utility to justify no damage, So just make your damage your utility.

Sinzari4 votes

[{quoted}](name=No flash no life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yETFlOKF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-18T03:21:33.773+0000)

-all champs unlocked- People: pls remove Evelynn and Yorick from aram.

As an evelynn one trick pony, I love getting evelynn in aram even if she's not supposed to be strong. I always do well with her. Also yorick isn't bad, he's just disliked and nobody plays him so people think he's bad.

EpikFeeder6 votes

Keep in mind, if they change this, they also will need to make dodging in aram a one week off of aram punishment....because.....all the aram only accounts will be dodging left and right.

DarkRitual9 votes

constantly queue dodging already ramps up pretty quickly.

LaytonApprentice6 votes

Every Champion Unlocked, Then it picks 10 random champions from the entire pool. The team captain take turns picking champions from the pool, then all the champions are randomly assigned to their team.

This will prevent those crazy lopsided teams.

TheGreatBardini2 votes

Oh my word, that's genius. Someone do this.

StormStrike15 votes

Seems like a good idea [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Quort5 votes

It's not fun if I get stuck with a Champion I never had any interest in playing.

ajaxeo6 votes

the point of aram is random if you don't like the champ you either reroll trade or deal with it if you want to pick a champ you can play then go play some SR (srry if I seem mean)

Xenos111114 votes

Then use a reroll, or just don't play ARAM

iainB855 votes

The only reason I can think of that Riot hasn't done this despite it's positive feedback all this years is money.

People creating ARAM only accounts generates them money. It's a second account that people will likely buy boosts and re-buy skins on to get them up and running as fast as possible.

Sadly in F2P games the developers don't always make the clear choice of what's best for the game due to revenue generation concerns.

Banuvan4 votes

I own all champs already so this doesn't apply to me but it would be a good way to let people see and try new champs and such other than just when (if) they are ever on a free week rotation.

ARAM is the perfect place to do this. It means nothing to the actual game ( such as SR does ) and it has no ranked ladder at all ( both SR and TT have ranked ladders ). Riot doesn't need to worry about balance at all because it's ARAM. I believe Smite has a feature like this on one of their game modes but I can't remember which. It's been a long time since i've played Smite.

MVDuneCats3 votes

If Riot were to do this, would it make sense to increase the number of re-rolls you can do? Given that there are 129 champs, it wouldn't seem unreasonable to me to let people have 3 (or more) rerolls every game.

ll League God ll3 votes

Can we get a RIOTER comment on this topic?

Xenos111112 votes

It would also help new players learn the basics of all the champions without having to wait for them to be on rotation

Dukarg2 votes

No offense, but this argument has been around for I dunno, since ARAM came out? I totally agree, but RIOT doesn't give a shit.

ll League God ll2 votes

I would like to see a RED post about why they have chosen to not take this route in the current state

Novasurge2 votes

Agree.

Fuck ARAM smurfs.

CooLTanG2 votes

Completely agree, although some people only play ARAM now, so they'd be like why buy any champions, I can play them all.

Synx72 votes

Who gives a fuck. Riot for sure doesn't. 500+ upvotes, not even a red post

ll League God ll2 votes

Still waiting on a RED

ll League God ll2 votes

We waitin rioters

burningtr33s2 votes

From what I have seen you only get champions you own. I think yes they should change that.

Psi211 votes

[{quoted}](name=ll League God ll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yETFlOKF,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-18T01:50:19.657+0000)

ARAM really should make it so every person who plays it has a random chance to get any single champion thats currently available in the game.

It will make it feel more random

ARAM-Only accounts wont be stacked with OP setups anymore

It will allow people to play champs they might not otherwise be able to

And after all its a "FOR FUN" game mode, so why not apply this feature?

That is right just screw the veteran players that worked hard to collect all the champions. Have them have nothing to hold happily over their head.

Perhaps rerolls should just be stuck at 2 for everyone! Not based on the number of champions you own.

blkKalameet3 votes

currently haven every Champ unlocked in aram is a handicap, not something to gloat about.

if every player had an equal chance at every champ it levels the playing field

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