Dots shouldnt apply thunderlords

ll League God ll·Feb 23, 2016·65 votes·3,510 views

Simply put, any damage over time, or ability that hits multiple times ( like miss fortunes E, or morganas W ) should not be procing thunderlords.

It should be 3 individual hits from DIFFERENT abilities / auto attacks

3 autos = proc morg auto + q + w = proc

these are just 2 tiny examples of this.

Skirmishes already tend to be the trending fight style where you get in, get a few hits, then get out.

Hard engaging hasnt been a huge thing so far this season which is why thunderlords already appears over the top

Its poke potential is free 180 damage at level 18 + AP and AD scaling which is why i personally think DOT or spells that "tick damage" multiple times ( gp ult ) shouldnt be procing this free damage.

52 Comments

ParoeFeb 23, 201619 votes

But.... actual DoTs dont proc thunderlords...

redniwediSFeb 23, 201610 votes

I wouldn't call Morgana's pool or Gangplank's ultimate a damage over time effect... I mean it technically fits the words, but it doesn't really fit what a DOT is considered in most of gaming.

Real damage over time effects I think shouldn't proc Thunderlords, however AoE abilities that hit multiple times I'm perfectly fine with.

ll League God llFeb 23, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't call Morgana's pool or Gangplank's ultimate a damage over time effect... I mean it technically fits the words, but it doesn't really fit what a DOT is considered in most of gaming.

Real damage over time effects I think shouldn't proc Thunderlords, however AoE abilities that hit multiple times I'm perfectly fine with.

i mean, i get where you are coming from.. but its such an easy abuse mechanic. For the amount of poke damage it deals literally for free with some of these setups, it becomes the go to keystone for the best chance at laning.

Swain or malz throws their Es on you, sits back while you take loads of damage with zero counter play... every 15-25 seconds

Its not that its unplayable against because its fairly simple to deal with

but twitch and teemo autos + passive damage doesnt proc it, so why should all these other forms of zone ticking damage and damage over time proc it?

MF E+TL early on is stupid for poke dmg

redniwediSFeb 23, 20161 votes

Don't get me wrong, I won't shed any tears if they make a change like the one you want, I just also won't be particularly annoyed if they don't.

Mestm97Feb 23, 20161 votes

Actually Swan and Malza don't proc Thunderlord... i mean only 1 proc for each DoT, now Malza pool proc it

EyesOfTheFoxFeb 23, 20162 votes

To be fair, they nerfed MF's E into the ground because of Thunderlords. It cost about twice as much mana as her Q and doesn't deal near the damage it used to. Yeah the proc with her E alone is nice, but, it's not THAT great.

NarasimhaFeb 23, 201611 votes

Swain or malz throws their Es on you, sits back while you take loads of damage with zero counter play... every 15-25 seconds

No, it doesn't. DoTs only proc it once per cast.

DoTs =/= Persistent AoEs

DoTs do a certain amount of damage over a certain amount of time. Persistent AoEs do a certain amount of damage per second for a certain amount of time.

Theres a very important difference between the two.

maxaroni118Feb 23, 20164 votes

champs that get free thunderlords

Gangplank Heimerdinger Alistar MissFortune Pantheon Ziggs Morgana KogMaw Nautilus (e aa combo since e is two part)

teamstarFeb 23, 20162 votes

Don't forget Fizz 1 Urchin Strike procs it instantly, and Renekton just uses and empowered e and is also procced instantly.

WestonbirtFeb 23, 20161 votes

Each tick of Singed's poison also counts as a strike.

VerdadeFeb 23, 20162 votes

But Rene's empowered E procs 3x on-hit effects, no reason it shouldn't proc TL

shteeebFeb 24, 20162 votes

Uh Renekton's E is a dash and applies no on-hit effects.

I think you guys mean W.

LlaniteFeb 24, 20161 votes

Fizz Q does not proc it instantly, it has to be WQ which is 3 hits (Q+AA+W passive)

Touch My BoxFeb 23, 20164 votes

It isn't each "DoT" or tick of damage, I can't believe there are people stupid enough to believe that is how it works.

Whenever the buff reapplies to you (ie STAYING in Miss Fortune's Make it Rain, or Malzahars Purple Dancefloor) it will count as another spell.

They are Area of Effect spells that deal reoccurring damage at timed intervals, they aren't a Damage over Time spell. Completely different. Gitgood.

Dominick DestineFeb 23, 20162 votes

More importantly; Autoattacks shouldn't proc thunderlord's, make it specialized for mages.

Shroom JunkieFeb 23, 20161 votes

Teemo is my main and he's a mage. He autoattacks, but I guess he also uses a spell AA, so if they made spell AA's proc it then that would work too. But really at this point Teemo is pretty reliant upon Thunderlords to Q-AA-AA and get his burst poke off. Without it he has to poke more and take a lot more minion damage.

Dan AbnormalFeb 23, 20161 votes

teemo's e is a proc effect (like shiv, sunfire, RFC and sivir's w bounces), they'd need to recode it to be considered as a spell instead

Shroom JunkieFeb 23, 20161 votes

Exactly, but he's a mage and is pretty reliant on Thunderlords so if it doesn't work that way, then they would.

Maximum MordeFeb 23, 20162 votes

Actual dots applied directly to champions dont.

Abilities that create a damaging zone that applies damage periodically do because each instance is considered it's own spell effect

MXXXXXLFeb 23, 20161 votes

I atleast want Heimerdinger rockets to not proc Thunderlords because they count as 5 different projectiles.

ModmarFeb 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I atleast want rockets to not proc Thunderlords because they count as 5 different projectiles.

I think it's alright that they do, especially since Graves autos appear to, or did. It makes up for the fact that Heimerdinger turrets don't proc with their autos. Without rockets counting would almost never proc TL and no keystone would work for him unless you went DFT, but let's be honest, DFT sucks pretty hard, especially on burst champs.

mason waterFeb 23, 20161 votes

wtf you guys talking about? his empowered turret shots proc it

MXXXXXLFeb 23, 20161 votes

Oh, i never knew that. I assumed that all of his abilities would proc it.

SohleksFeb 23, 20161 votes

That would be a sad fate for Heimer because his turrets do not proc Thunderlords. They don't even proc DFT

In general I think for most champions and balance Thunderlord procs from dot is overkill. It's not even consistent is the thing...

WestonbirtFeb 23, 20161 votes

Spaghetti code strikes again.

CalabokFeb 23, 20161 votes

make DOTS proc Thunderlords TWICE i mean, the dot is wayy slower than a warriors autoattack you know..

TohobFeb 23, 20161 votes

i mostly agree, however some abilities should proc multiple times, for example, abilities that aren't damage over time but do hit multiple times should still count as multiple hits Sivir Talon Ahri Poppy Velkoz Viktor but from my experience these seem to be the only abilities that don't proc thunderlords

Dan AbnormalFeb 23, 20161 votes

nah they proc it

Comrade NapoleonFeb 23, 20161 votes

still dont get the rules of this keystone, my boxes should proc it :( Shaco

Dan AbnormalFeb 23, 20161 votes

i believe shacos boxes are minions and minion dont proc it

WestonbirtFeb 23, 20161 votes

It's not even DoTs in general. It's spaghetti code.

Some abilities trigger thunderlord's, other don't on seemingly arbitray grounds. The best I can decipher is that DoTs that can refresh (Singed's Q, Miss Fortune's rainfall) are counted as individual strikes while single instance DoTs are counted as one event (Urgot's E).

Honestly, I don't see any chance that Rito will fix it.

Hedgehog HustlerFeb 23, 20161 votes

Twitch's poison only applies thunderlord's once, while Morgana's W procs the whole thing, as does Singed and Miss Fortune. Zilean is incredibly hard to proc Thunderlord's now because of the time reduction a few patches ago (though I do believe it was necessary). Having one damaging ability is really annoying and only one heal (his ult) makes windspeaker's blessing really lame.

WestonbirtFeb 23, 20162 votes

Twitch's passive isn't a spell.

Dan AbnormalFeb 23, 20161 votes

its damage and its not a proc effect like shiv or sivir ricochets bounces, so it gives 1 thunderlord stack just like brand, lux and lulu's passive give 1 stack.

EyesOfTheFoxFeb 23, 20161 votes

If all three wisps of Ahri's W hit, they will also proc T-Lords~

warpenguin555Feb 23, 20161 votes

Its not even consistent with DOT's either. Malzahar e, 1 stack. MF e, 1-3 stacks. its dumb as hell and needs to be consistant

Dan AbnormalFeb 23, 20162 votes

its actually very consistent persistent AOE DOT (mf e and ult, morg w,swain ult, karthus e, rumble ult and q, corki w and package w, rammus ult, vlad's w, viktor ult, alistar passive, anivia ult, mundo w, fiddle ult, gp ult, garen e, nasus e and his ult, jayce hammer form w, kat ult, malz w, renekton ult, shyv w and dragon form w's trail, vel koz ult, wu kong ult) will give you multiple stacks of thunderlord because the damage is reaplied each tick

Debuffs DOT, like teemo's poison or malz e DONT because the damage is applied once then spread over the debuff duration.

Vistha KaiFeb 23, 20161 votes

Actual DoTs give only one charge of Thunderlord. All the damage is done through a debuff of sorts.

Morgana's Tormented Soil is an AoE that deals damage every 0.5 second or so to whatever is standing on it.

In practice it sounds as the same thing, but in theory a true DoT deals damage only once, while quasi-DoTs check every so often if they should affect a target.

Chaos Milk TeaFeb 23, 20161 votes

Thunderlords does not at all work as advertised. At first glance it looked like a nice way for champions with burst combos to net extra damage. What you get is a reward for dealing any damage within a few seconds. Rather than reward full combos it instead is a strong harass tool.

falloffreljordFeb 23, 20161 votes

what about anivias ult? that's kinda a special case if you ask me sure its damage over time but it costs mana per each damage either way I usually proc it even with only one tick of my ult or even before it with q e combo

Moisty ToastFeb 23, 20161 votes

Dodgeable DoTs apply TL. Non-Dodgeable DoTs only proc ONE TL hit. So, ya. QQGG

LatetotheRaceFeb 23, 20161 votes

I think a compromise would be that Thunderlords can only apply once per second on DOTS. Certain dots however would just apply one stack period. (Targeted abilities 1 total stack, AOE dot abilities could apply 1 stack per second.

DracosKasuFeb 23, 20161 votes

Morgana zone ability isnt a DoT but am AoE. The point will be to make any similar effect doesnt prop thunderlord example lux auto attack effect, aoe, the doubleshot of lucien etc. But that will never happen

The Bearded BardFeb 23, 20161 votes

Autoattacks shouldn't apply thunderlords.

AuroramancerFeb 24, 20161 votes

The difference is that there are Damage over Time spells (one instance of damage, dealt over an extended period of time), or Damage per Second spells (multiple instances of damage at a listed rate).

Damage over Time spells do not proc Thunderlords. Damage per Second spells do.

Morgana's W is a Damage per Second spell Swain's Q is a Damage over Time spell

EcchiOtakuTMFeb 24, 20161 votes

You do know you just said Multi-hit abilities. Those aren't DoT.....

LlaniteFeb 24, 20161 votes

It's not a DOT, Morgana W is a ground AOE that does constant dmg, same for GP R, Zigg E, Karthus E. Stop standing on it if you don't want the dmg.

DOT like Swain and Malz only give one stack.

And yes, a mastery is stronger on some than others, which exactly what "diversity" is about.

Naag OneFeb 24, 20161 votes

i see a lot fizz proc'ing thunderlords just by using Q. it prcos the moment fizz q hits. hows this?

AkesgerothFeb 24, 20161 votes

Thunderlord needs to be nerfed, plain and simple. When ADCs, assassins and mages would rather go down the utility tree than the offensive tree for just that one thing, something is wrong.