Ya done ****ed it up, Riot.

Zero Shingetsu··5 votes·1,835 views

Let's talk about Neeko. Or, "ulterior motives have yet again caused Riot to lose the plot, drop the ball, fumble the snap, and several other largely sports-derived metaphors".

I gave them a shot with Neeko. They don't deserve it. They haven't deserved it for years. But I said "Okay. I have this event to finish. I may as well at least give Neeko a try. I mean this kit is my thing. A chameleon? Please. I can run with this all day." So I decided I'd give her a chance to bring me back to the game. She failed miserably. I'm going to put aside her eye-raking design and every bit of annoyance about her character, of which there are at least a dozen. I'm going to talk purely about gameplay, as fits the board.

Passive: Utterly useless. You might use it to trick an enemy into focusing the wrong champion for 0.2 seconds, if you're lucky. And that's it. That's all you're doing with it. At BEST you can trick the enemy into thinking you're backdooring, but all they have to do is click on the minimap and they'll see you don't actually have your Yi's attack speed. This does nothing. Zero. Naught. None. Nada. Nashi. Meiliao. Shunya. It's worthless. It's a wasted ability slot.

Q: Damage is far too shallow to be effective in the least. If you're lucky and a fight breaks out where a few minions are low, you can use it to zone for a few seconds. But it's far too easy to avoid and deals far too little damage to actually be effective in a fight.

W: I had very high hopes for this one, but it turns out it comes with a very obvious design flaw that Riot's team should be sent back to school for not noticing. The active ability gives you bonus movement speed. This means that 99% of the time, the enemy bloody knows which one is the clone, and in most cases it seems they have a pretty good idea where you're actually going, too. This ability hasn't worked a single time for me, and you're looking at someone who earned the title "Duke of Juke" by using LeBlanc's clones to fool enemies out of their skin.

E: It's a snare. It's short. It does its job. No major complaints, but it's underwhelming.

R: Hahahaha whaaaat is this even? It has zero thematic blend with her concept and isn't exactly cohesive with her kit either. The only time this has a snowflake's chance in hell of working is if you're disguised first, but again, major flaw, back to school for Riot: Either your opponents are staying away from you thinking you're someone dangerous, so your ult won't work anyway, or you're surrounded by enemies already and disguise will be dropped the moment you're touched. Come on guys, I thought you were big time? Don't you hire professionals? This kind of shoddy consideration for eventualities is a dismal display of those degrees I presume you earned.


Let me, just off the top of my head, provide an alternative for how Neeko might work:

Passive: While Neeko is close to terrain (think Taliyah passive close), she gains a small amount of bonus movement speed and her body takes on the appearance of the terrain. After remaining stationary by terrain for 2.5 seconds, she becomes completely invisible while stationary. While her chameleon'd form is visible, it can't be directly targeted. Attacking un-chameleons her for 0.5 seconds. Taking damage un-chameleons her for 2 seconds.

Q: Neeko lashes out with her tail in a short-range skillshot. Enemies in her path are dealt damage and slowed by a small amount for 1.5 seconds. Enemies caught at the tip of the skillshot are instead stunned for 2 seconds.

W: Neeko passively takes on the properties of the terrain she's touching, gaining bonus armor if she's touching lane walls or towers, or shortening the invisibility of her passive delay by <1.75 seconds at rank 5> while touching jungle terrain.

Actively, Neeko creates a clone of herself that uses her Q on the nearest enemy, then runs in the target direction for 3 seconds. If used while an ally champion is within <roughly Guardian distance>, Neeko will additionally transform into that champion for <8 seconds at rank 5>. Transforming immediately breaks stealth. Neeko's abilities are still usable in this state. W cooldown begins after transformation ends.

E: Neeko springs forward and latches onto an enemy champion, slowing their movement speed substantially. Neeko is untargetable by the latched champion, but can still be hit by other enemies and AoE attacks. Neeko can jump off with a lunge at any time by recasting, or will automatically let go where she stands 2 seconds after her target takes damage. Neeko can cast other abilities while latched.

R: Copies the last non-ultimate ability the nearest ally used. Cooldown is the ability's base cooldown +10/8/6/4/2. If a target is latched, Neeko will instead use the last ability her target did. Level and base cooldown are factored based on Neeko's Q, not the current level of the ally's ability. All scaling is done with Neeko's stats.

Just off the top of my head.

40 Comments

SUPERSATANA12 votes

You are played lol at least since season 5. You NEVER got past bronze. Yet you came here, you call out Riot, you plain insult them and their work cause your ego is SO massive that you think you perfectly figured out a champ in just a few hours of try (something basically impossible even for a challenger). Now, let me clarify something: there is no shame in being bronze, it just means that you are your knowledge of the game is still very lackluster. Here's what shameful tho: not having even the bare minimum of humility required to say to yourself "mmm ok so far I am not liking this champ but I know I am all but a LoL super expert and she was out literally for HOURS: maybe I shouldn't go and start a rant vs OMG THE INCOMPETENT RIOT FUCKED UP AGAIN, AND I ALREADY FIGURED ALL OUT SINCE I KNOW THIS GAME SO MUCH BETTER THAN ALL THE BALANCE/DESIGN TEAM COMBINED!11!". But, from the tone of your post, I guess you are 100% sure you are a great player held back by your retarded teammates all the time, constantly knowing how to balance LoL MUCH better than Riot could ever do, constantly baffled by how such a successful company, can't see things as good as yourself, right?

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

You are played lol at least since season 5. You NEVER got past bronze. Yet you came here, you call out Riot, you plain insult them and their work cause your ego is SO massive that you think you perfectly figured out a champ in just a few hours of try (something basically impossible even for a challenger). Now, let me clarify something: there is no shame in being bronze, it just means that you are your knowledge of the game is still very lackluster. Here's what shameful tho: not having even the bare minimum of humility required to say to yourself "mmm ok so far I am not liking this champ but I know I am all but a LoL super expert and she was out literally for HOURS: maybe I shouldn't go and start a rant vs OMG THE INCOMPETENT RIOT FUCKED UP AGAIN, AND I ALREADY FIGURED ALL OUT SINCE I KNOW THIS GAME SO MUCH BETTER THAN ALL THE BALANCE/DESIGN TEAM COMBINED!11!". But, from the tone of your post, I guess you are 100% sure you are a great player held back by your retarded teammates all the time, constantly knowing how to balance LoL MUCH better than Riot could ever do, constantly baffled by how such a successful company, can't see things as good as yourself, right?

I've actually been spending most of my serious time on CN since season 4. I don't play ranked on NA, I just come here to do off the wall stuff for my stream and practice my English. So my knowledge is actually probably far beyond what's apparent. This doesn't come from "literally hours", by the way, this comes from watching excessive amounts of PBE footage as well. I was merely withholding judgment until I'd played her myself.

(Lest anyone throw a fit, it's a joke. The server is Korea, but if you're there, you get the joke.)

SUPERSATANA3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEETO6PK,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-12-05T20:34:55.193+0000)

I've actually been spending most of my serious time on CN since season 4. I don't play ranked on NA, I just come here to do off the wall stuff for my stream and practice my English.

Eeexactly as I have expeted, yeah. Oh but you watched some footage on pbe too, my mistake then: you are more than read to trash Riot to the ground! Just try to be gentle: you should know they cannot be as good, wise and knowledgeable about the game as yourself!

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Eeexactly as I have expeted, yeah. Oh but you watched some footage on pbe too, my mistake then: you are more than read to trash Riot to the ground!

"Some" is a paltry way of putting it. This sounded like exactly my kind of champion, I've been watching PBE footage for like a week straight. I've probably got a good 60+ hours of footage under my belt. Wanted to be ready.

Just try to be gentle: you should know they cannot be as good, wise and knowledgeable about the game as yourself!

It's not that they can't, it's that they refuse to. They could do just fine if they'd hire better creative minds. I'd offer my expertise first hand, but I refuse to work for a company that treats women like crap.

SUPERSATANA4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEETO6PK,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T20:43:44.422+0000)

It's not that they can't, it's that they refuse to.

Yeah, they refuse to see the light!111!

I'd offer my expertise first hand

Your EXPERTISE. Oh god.

but I refuse to work for a company that treats women like crap.

Fiuuu, I mean...THEY DON'T DESERVE YOU!!1!!1!1

Holy bat delusion!

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, they refuse to see the light!111!

You misunderstand. They refuse to hire people who know what they're doing. The few times they have, they've cut them for some ridiculous reason or another.

Your EXPERTISE. Oh god.

Yeah. My expertise. 2 years indie, 3 years at Cygames, 10+ years in the professional gaming circuit. I know a thing or two about video games, son.

Fiuuu, I mean...THEY DON'T DESERVE YOU!!1!!1!1

You said it, not me.

SUPERSATANA4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEETO6PK,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T20:52:42.441+0000)

You misunderstand.

Oh trust me. I don't.

They refuse to hire people who know what they're doing.

Ahahhahahahahahaha oh god. This is gold ahahhahaha.

Yeah. My expertise. 2 years indie, 3 years at Cygames, 10+ years in the professional gaming circuit.

And still bronze. Very impressive, rotfl.

I know a thing or two about video games, son.

You know one thing or two about delusion of grandeur, bud.

You said it, not me.

Yeah about that...oh nothing don't worry about it. Rotfl.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted} And still bronze. Very impressive, rotfl.

On a secondary account that exists purely for playing off-meta in Normals, with the occasional 2 to 5 game Ranked run as part of a betting sweepstakes. You're completely ignoring everything but this one account and your obsessive perception that the numbers here are somehow proof I'm some 12 year-old who knows nothing about video games.

Do you have an argument here? Something you can back up? Or are you just trying to make me feel like a nobody again? Because from where I'm standing, that's rubbernecking big time. It didn't work the last two times, why do you think it'll work now? If you don't have an actual point to make that convinces me I'm objectively wrong, this conversation is over.

SUPERSATANA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEETO6PK,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T20:59:56.828+0000)

On a secondary account that exists purely for bla bla

Yeah, I am sure you are a challenger in disguise, or at least YOU WOULD DESERVE IT!11! Rotfl.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I am sure you are a challenger in disguise, or at least YOU WOULD DESERVE IT!11! Rotfl.

Thanks for answering my question. Now begone, leave the thread open for people who have something to say.

SUPERSATANA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEETO6PK,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T21:04:00.978+0000)

Thanks

You are welcome.

Now

...I will do wtf I want, thx.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

You are welcome.

...I will do wtf I want, thx.

Well, go for it, but as a PSA, I'm done reading your drivel. With due respect, you're level 101 on your main account and I'm level 70 on an account I barely play on, I strongly doubt there's a whole lot you can teach me.

SUPERSATANA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEETO6PK,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T21:12:10.639+0000)

I strongly doubt there's a whole lot you can teach me.

Oh believe me, I wouldn't waste half a second trying to "teach you" ANYTHING, rotfl. Other than that, you have no idea HOW many LoL acc I have bud, I am playing this game since the beta. Oh, btw: my rank is just a "tiiiny" bit higher than yours; to be precised I "managed" to surpass bronze since uh...oh yeah SEASON ONE, lol. Not that it means anything cause in YOUR MAIN YOU ARE CHALLENGER OR AT LEAST YOU WOULD BE IF YOUR DAMN TEAM BLA BLA BLA ofc. Delusion of grandeur is truly a bitch ^__^

PS While at it: the point was NEVER "ahahah you can't say that but I can cause I AM better than you etc". I AM...but it wasn't the point at all^^

Rester6 votes

Based on your match history, you played Neeko a grand total of ONCE so I'm sure you didn't even bother to continue sharpening your skills. Also what's up with your theme on running cleanse no matter what champ/role you get?

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Based on your match history, you played Neeko a grand total of ONCE so I'm sure you didn't even bother to continue sharpening your skills. Also what's up with your theme on running cleanse no matter what champ/role you get?

Twice, actually. Twice here, six times on my main account (she sucks in Korea too! :D), and plenty of PBE footage to mull over. And it's not about my skills, it's about her kit not being fun or impactful. Like I can win games with Tryndamere, I just don't play him because he doesn't feel rewarding or cohesive to play.

And I run Cleanse because at low ELO, everyone likes to get Ignite kills and walk away. This shuts that down and it entertains my viewers.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEETO6PK,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-12-05T20:40:52.994+0000)

Twice, actually. Twice here, six times on my main account (she sucks in Korea too! :D), and plenty of PBE footage to mull over. And it's not about my skills, it's about her kit not being fun or impactful. Like I can win games with Tryndamere, I just don't play him because he doesn't feel rewarding or cohesive to play.

And I run Cleanse because at low ELO, everyone likes to get Ignite kills and walk away. This shuts that down and it entertains my viewers.

In other words "here are a bunch of excuses that will surely explain everything"

You have next to no games played with her. You have no idea how to use her properly in the slightest so do everyone a favor and don't come here pretending that you know everything about her in less than a day. Not even pros/challenger players know how to play her effectively yet here you are with your bronze knowledge claiming to know what others haven't achieved yet? Please

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

In other words "here are a bunch of excuses that will surely explain everything"

What excuses? What am I attempting to excuse here?

You have next to no games played with her. You have no idea how to use her properly in the slightest so do everyone a favor and don't come here pretending that you know everything about her in less than a day. Not even pros/challenger players know how to play her effectively yet here you are with your bronze knowledge claiming to know what others haven't achieved yet? Please

No, I don't know everything about her. But I know enough about her to make a sound judgment. No one knows everything about anything. My knowledge is not Bronze, my "funtime screw around" NA account is Bronze because I almost never play ranked on it. Probably best not to judge someone with only a sliver of context into the actual depth of their acumen. For example, I'm not presuming you possess only paltry Silver knowledge and are a mere level 52 in your understanding of the game. For all I know, you're a Plat I smurf.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

PSA: No, I don't know everything. I'm sure there are things I've yet to see her do. But 142 people and counting have not been able to tell me anything I don't yet know about how Neeko plays. Just throwing that out there to attest to my pretty circumspect understanding.

Smashed Hash4 votes

https://youtu.be/FqxxyiyTKVg Nightblue Best Jungler Ever Neeko 32 kills.

https://youtu.be/OjtPrDxKr7I Nightblue Neeko Penta Kill.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Smashed Hash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEETO6PK,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-12-05T20:52:48.284+0000)

https://youtu.be/FqxxyiyTKVg Nightblue Best Jungler Ever Neeko 32 kills.

https://youtu.be/OjtPrDxKr7I Nightblue Neeko Penta Kill.

Streamers only upload their best work. (Trust me, I know.) Because some guy who eats, drinks and breathes League can smash a bunch of starstruck pubbies a couple times I'm supposed to go against my decades of gaming experience and gut instinct?

tehechounpolvazo1 votes

But are you real though? Nightblue has had a video on that for literally every new champion thats been released since when? I guess every champion is clearly busted, and must be played in jungle. Because nightblue, a challenger player, can make it work in A GAME on his silver account that has like a 50% win rate because of playing shit like that.

RaDat2 votes

lol not siding with nightblue but silver seriously? yeah he played that neeko game in pbe because it wasnt released yet . and now if you go to his channel he posts videos mostly with HIS REAL ACCOUNT. get your facts checked up :P.

Smashed Hash1 votes

{quoted}

But are you real though? Nightblue has had a video on that for literally every new champion thats been released since when? I guess every champion is clearly busted, and must be played in jungle. Because nightblue, a challenger player, can make it work in A GAME on his silver account that has like a 50% win rate because of playing shit like that.

I'm a real boy (Inserts Pinocchio Meme)!! LOL

I don't care about the circumstances on what account was played and where. What I care about is how does the champ fight fed, or how to play the champ in general, and those videos look like she was hella fun to play. Day 2/3 of Neeko release and I still haven't purchased the champ. Same with Pyke, it took me a few months.

chipndip14 votes

So let me wrap this shit up for everyone:

  1. This dude has shown us 0 evidence that he even knows how to play this game based on him running Exhaust/Cleanse in soon-to-be Iron elo (which is NOT an elo shaming thing but I'm making a point, here).

  2. This dude tries to deflect from people that call him out on this by saying he "has a main account in KR" that no one's seen, and could ALSO be Iron tier for all we know.

  3. He's doing all this complaining about a champ that literally came out today.

That sums up just about all the counter-points to whatever bellyaching is in this thread.

mack91122 votes

Definitely a champion with a high skill cap

xyz7072 votes

I think you should first know what summoners to run at the very least before you start critiquing riot on how to make and balance a champion. Edit: https://gyazo.com/e694a2a3cb4b00af251d42313d07457f

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

I think you should first know what summoners to run at the very least before you start critiquing riot on how to make and balance a champion. Edit: https://gyazo.com/e694a2a3cb4b00af251d42313d07457f

I know what summoners to run. I run Flash on KR where I'm playing against high skill opponents. Down here in Bronze where I'm just screwing about, I die much more often for not being able to get rid of Ignite than I do not being able to Flash, so I started running Cleanse every game. Running tally has me in the ballpark of 220 kills denied in the last two years just running Cleanse.

But this thread is about how Neeko is trash, not about how Shingetsu's "have fun and try new stuff" account is trash.

xyz7072 votes

I can play cleanse ghost soraka mid in gold 5 on euw with 120 ping and still have a 7 kd, let alone bronze 5... Also you averaged a 1.8kda in season 8. I wouldn't flame you but you are a compulsive liar sooo...

Moonscourge2 votes

I agree that her ult doesn't really fit her. However, the fact her passive doesn't have that much power attached to it is entirely because the ultimate is the strongest ability to exist in the game. It has everything.

Shields her, stuns enemies, massive base damage, massive ratio, low cooldown, she can move around and flash with it, her passive disguises the channel and most importantly.. it's a huge fucking aoe circle. She plays around it entirely.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEETO6PK,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-12-05T20:44:02.323+0000)

I agree that her ult doesn't really fit her. However, the fact her passive doesn't have that much power attached to it is entirely because the ultimate is the strongest ability to exist in the game. It has everything.

Shields her, stuns enemies, massive base damage, massive ratio, low cooldown, she can move around and flash with it, her passive disguises the channel and most importantly.. it's a huge fucking aoe circle. She plays around it entirely.

I dunno, in the current environment, the damage feels underwhelming for the risk required. I know people have been calling it a "mobile Nunu ult", but Nunu's generally hits much harder.

Rester1 votes

It's barely been one day.

DrCyanide1 votes

Decent kit idea except for the ult. It'd be completely unusable in a teamfight. You go to to press R with a copied skillshot just as Ezreal uses Arcane Shift and congrats, you've now thrown yourself into the enemy team.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Decent kit idea except for the ult. It'd be completely unusable in a teamfight. You go to to press R with a copied skillshot just as Ezreal uses Arcane Shift and congrats, you've now thrown yourself into the enemy team.

That's the challenge! :) But admittedly, it's not the best idea mechanically, I was just firing things off the top of my head.

SwiftKitten881 votes

its a better design than freaking Shaco

( i mean not that that says much of anything as pretty much every champion in the game besides maybe TahmKench is better design than Shaco )

BUT...

at least they can't control the clone and during laning phase its pretty obvoius to tell ita neeko because u see the real on in their lane on the map

Phieldworker1 votes

What’s your main account summoner name?

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

What’s your main account summoner name?

Not allowed to type it on NA, it uses Japanese characters and I've already been warned three times for typing Japanese on the NA boards.

Phieldworker2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEETO6PK,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-12-06T04:25:32.932+0000)

Not allowed to type it on NA, it uses Japanese characters and I've already been warned three times for typing Japanese on the NA boards.

You can’t link your op.gg?

Elisza Kitsune1 votes
  1. PBE footage does not equate to actual gameplay // yes it gives some knowledge on how one may play her and her kit BUT it doesn't mean that you youself know how to play her. You played her 8 times total which isn't enough to fully grasp her kit especially being in the lower percentile of the LoL community

  2. Your alternatives come from already existing champions' base spells while riot brings something new. Your suggested Q is essentially Anivia Q. Her W is a combination of Teemo passive + Taliyah's passive. Her E is EXTREMELY similar to Kayn E. Finally, her ult is like Zoe W. That's how the game becomes boring and lackluster because of not opening up to new ideas

  3. Her passive if used correctly can be EXTREMELY good for ganking. Take the Bilgewater event that happened a few years ago and I've seen countless people get tricked by her passive. Her Q and R scaling are super high as well [one of them has a 250% ap scaling]. She can even move around in her R unlike Nunu but even his is effective

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

Your alternatives come from already existing champions' base spells while riot brings something new. Your suggested Q is essentially Anivia Q. Her W is a combination of Teemo passive + Taliyah's passive. Her E is EXTREMELY similar to Kayn E. Finally, her ult is like Zoe W. That's how the game becomes boring and lackluster because of not opening up to new ideas

Anivia's Q is a traveling skillshot with range. My suggestion is a line skillshot with less range and a quicker delivery. Similarities? Yes. But this is like saying MF's W and Tristana's Q are the same thing. Please tell me how Neeko's current E is remarkably different from the roots of Lux or Bard in its delivery. (Well, okay, Bard's REQUIRES hitting two.) Please tell me how her W is different as a mobility tool than Kai'Sa's E. Come on now.

Her E is not extremely similar to Kayn. She can be targeted, and she does no damage with it. It's pure utility. Again, the delivery being similar does not make the gameplay identical. Her W being a combination of passives? That's a stretch. I can do that too: Her current real world W is a combination of LeBlanc's passive + Kai'Sa's E. And her Ult is like Zoe's W... Excuse me, what? Zoe can use champions' abilities against them? I think I missed that reveal.

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