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If you ask me, I only have one complaint about Neeko

Eternal Torment··21 votes·13,110 views

And it's her Auto-Attack range.

Considering her entire kit is long-range, for her to be able to safely 3-hit-passive a poke that requires no drawbacks is a little too much forgiving for a kit like hers. The only other burst-mages with an attack range of 550 or higher are Lux, Zoe, Veigar (Also at 550) and Annie (625) and all of them have something that withdraws them from extensiely poking with the range:

  • Lux' AA deals virtually zero damage without her passive proc which requires her to use her skills which, mind me, cost a lot of mana early.
  • Annie and Veigar have no AA-empowering mechanics (unless they for SOME REASON build lich bane)
  • Zoe's Skills can't ignore unit collision so her consistently using her passive-empowered AA is a tickle without the skills behind it, also similar issue with lux. Her mana-costs are mediocre but her cooldowns are comparably short so if she tries to use her passive a lot she will run out of mana quickly.

Neeko has none of those drawbacks for a burst-mage with 550 attack range:

  • Her skills ignore unit collision entirely, and her Root even profits from it.
  • She can safely back out if she is baited into an even remotely unsafe positioning using her W.
  • Thanks to her Root duration after at least 2 unit hits she can fire an entire 3 AA-serie into you with absolutely zero danger or risk yet with all the reward.

If I had to do precisely one change about her kit, it's either remove her 3 hit passive or shorten her AA range to 500 from 550.

34 Comments

Salvor Hardın20 votes

Yeah, the range is a good place to nerf. I would also remove some AP scaling in the R as well as more CD's to it. 130% is way too much.

Eternal Torment2 votes

I'd say that toning down the AP ratio wouldn't be bad, but it would be the most obvious suggestion. Maybe add more risk to the reward by lowering it's hitbox range. I mean her R does have a fairly wide range for an ability that bursts AND stuns.

Salvor Hardın2 votes

R'cd is too low, the few times I played her, I felt it was always available.

I also noticed that her base damages (Q/W) are very high. I plan to try her with this build in jungle: item 1402 item 3111 item 3091 item 3025 item 3742 item 3083

Still Virgiñ10 votes

Neeko's entire kit is mid range and not long range. In fact every single one of lux's abilities have higher range than neeko. Her bind roots for longer and travels faster than neeko's bind, unless it goes through minions.

Lux has higher base AD than neeko does, so her Auto atks deal more dmg early. Mana cost between neeko and lux in the early game are basically identical.

EX: Lux bind starts at 40 - 60 mana with a 10S CD at all ranks, Neeko E starts at 60 - 80 mana with a 12 - 10s CD and shorter range. Lux binding also has higher base dmg starting at lvl 2, as well as 30% more ap scaling.

Neeko needs to hit 3x to trigger her W passive, which she only gets at lvl 3. You can't compare lux passive to neeko passive, as lux can proc her passive multiple times on multiple enemies quickly and neeko cannot.

All lux abilities can also ignore unit collision.

Neeko root is more comparable to Zyra root, which ignores unit collision and roots for 1- 2s, with more range than neeko has on her E.

Eternal Torment3 votes

And I wasn't comparing the passives in itself, I was comparing the risks and drawbacks of using them. AKA the costs.

Lux has significantly higher costs to use it and risks dropping the very defence she even has to offer by staying and AAing the enemy champion she just rooted.

And again, Lux needs to use her skills in order to proc her passive and while her Q is moderate, her E is not. Her E has a standart Ult manacost at skill-rank 3 which is lvl 5 for most lux players (Some people actually max Q first)

I repeat, I was not comparing the initial skill and it's activation, I was comparing the drawbacks and risks in ratio to the reward. Neeko's 3 hit passive one of the, if not the safest in the game to her already insanely safe kit.

Her R gives her a shield AND a stun, her E can root up to 3 seconds and travels really fast and her Q has a range of 800 which is rather high for a burst mage.

Neeko is way too safe for the damage she can bring, and the safest aspect in her entire kit is her AA, hence the suggestion to make her repeaded poking riskier as to make the reward actually worth the effort.

Still Virgiñ5 votes

You just said lux needs to give up her safety to proc her passive, yet neeko gives up nothing to stand and auto you 3x to proc it?

Her R requires her to dive into the enemy team as a squishy mage, lux can burst you on a 30s CD ult from huge range.

Like I said it costs more mana for neeko to use her Root than it does for lux to use her bind, while procing her passive.

the fact is that neeko would give up more safety than a lux if she wanted to proc her passive.

Neeko does not have a safe kit at all, and her passive is not easy to just proc. If you think it is more difficult for a lux with a 200 range advantage on her abilities to proc her passive than it is for a neeko, then idk what to say to you.

If you try to say that she can hit a minion twice then W and auto you once, well guess what? her passive at lvl 3 hits only 10 dmg more than lux, but can only be procced once every 3rd auto. But if you include her W skill into the mix, then guess what? lux also has a W that at lvl 3 ( champion lvl ) shields 150 dmg. How is neeko safer than lux again?

All their skills are essentially identical. But the one with shorter range is some how safer?

Eternal Torment3 votes

You forget everything else her skills offer. You just dismantled one singular part of the wholesome argument of mine at the neglect of all the others.

So I will do the effort of repeating myself.

Yes Neeko's R requires you to go in, but this "risk" is nill and nothing with a shield that's half the size of your health pool, then a stun added right after the burst to make sure you can't retaliate whatsoever once she gets going. Furthermore it's impact in general is much larger and her burst damage spikes higher at all stages of the game. Her base damage at skill rank 1 is just 25 lower than lux's while her AP scaling is almost twice that of lux'.

Neeko's root does cost more mana, but I did say once again that the root in itself isn't the problem, it's what it offers for the rest of her kit. She can cc for 1 whole second longer than Lux, allowing the full 3 damage procs of her Q to hit with fair ease. Which makes her 3 hit passive mostly just a provocative poke, yes, but one that, unlike lux, can be tossed in whenever wherever at whim.

Meanwhile Lux has to stay close to the person she just rooted for her AA to go off which against many matchups will be the ruin of her one escape.

And I repeat on that, too. Yes, Neeko's 3 hit can only be procced once every 3 hits but it can be done so FREELY. AT ALL TIMES. Lux can't use her passive without using her skills at all, necessarily tying her passive to the manacost of the skill she decided to use.

Furthermore Neeko does gain a slight movement speed boost each time she hits that 3rd passive so not only can she use it at all times, at no costs, but gets a fleeting swifty boost incase the enemy decides to fight back for that poke. Lux does get none of those safeties.

Last but not least, yes, Neeko's root range is a bit lower, but it's travel animation is much faster, allowing a more fluid and faster follow-up or escape, since it traveling faster equals it being harder to dodge.

So for defensive purposes, like rooting your enemy to disengage, it is safer because it offers more in ratio to what it costs.

Again, this isn't just about risk OR reward, this is about the ratio between risk:reward and in that regard Neeko reigns on every scale as far as I am concerned.

Still Virgiñ2 votes

You are completely wrong, her shield is not half the size of her health pool, and while diving the enemy she opens herself up to being bursted down before even getting the ult off.

You just said her 3 hit passive can be tossed in whenever at whim, yet she is in auto atk range of a champion like lux who can proc her passive multiple times while negating alot of the damage from neeko at the same time with her W?

Lux can proc her passive at a minimum of 2x if she lands her bind and then walk away. Neeko cannot. It seems like you are trying very hard to find a reason to call her passive W OP when in reality it is harder to proc than most 3 hit passives in the game. Lux and neeko both have the same auto range, so how is it lux needs to stay in auto range to proc her passive and neeko does not?

Lux also has her passive at lvl 1, while neeko has it at lvl 3.

How is a 3 hit passive proc'd freely at all times? If a neeko walks into range of you to auto, you are in range to trade back into her. Her E is a root, not a stun, you can still deal damage during the root.

Neekos root is not a faster travel time than lux Q, it is only faster when going through minions.

At no point in any situation will a neeko ever proc her passive more freely or nearly as quickly as a Lux.

For example lets say we have a neeko vs lux mid lane. Both are lvl 3.

For neeko to ever root lux, she has to be within range for lux to poke her and just walk away without taking any damage. If neeko manages to root lux, then her 3 hit passive only deals 50 damage, while lux has a 2 hit passive that deals 40 damage.

So lux, shields some of neeko's damage, while hitting 4x? How exactly did lux give up her safety? Neeko is actually the one who gives up her safety to proc her passive.

You assume everything goes perfectly for the neeko and the enemy does not trade back into her.

In lane phase, a lux can poke you outside the range of minions, a neeko cannot and she will take at minimum a few hits from minions for trying to proc her passive. Which again, is Neeko giving up her safety.

King Braum2 votes

Neeko root is more comparable to Zyra root, which ignores unit collision and roots for 1- 2s, with more range than neeko has on her E.

personally I'd argue that Neeko's snare should not ignore units for the simple issue that when compared to Zyra who has a similar form of CC, Neeko's CC will give a safe confirmed hit on Q for a large sum of damage, along with additional AA, where as Zyra's CC will only have a safe small hit, where as bigger burst numbers will require more setup.

further more, with proper positioning you can completely avoid Zyra's higher burst combo where as Neeko's is always confirmed upon being hit by her CC.

Still Virgiñ1 votes

Zyras burst is also pretty much guaranteed if you land her root, she can burst harder than neeko from essentially the same range when you add in her plant damage as well.

LeftyRaydy1 votes

you are aware that if you stand outside of minions she really cant do too much to you. if she does snare you (which is hard in the open) its for .5 seconds. I went against a lucian mid and got completely zoned because all he has to do is stand outside of minions and AA me. really any ADC could beat her mid.

Terozu1 votes

Lux maxes E first 75% if the time, which is much higher than neeko e.

Still Virgiñ1 votes

You are comparing different abilities. Lux E is Neeko Q. Both max those skills first.

Terozu1 votes

If we do that, then Lux's early mana consumption is significantly higher.

Not to mention, Neeko's W doesnt have a cost, nor can Lux just proc passive whenever with or without mana.

Dont call them identical when for every round of spells Neeko is spending 100-130 early while Lux is spending 200-300, thats not nearly identical.

Still Virgiñ1 votes

you realize that when both lux and neeko are lvl 5 ( 3 points in main skills ) that the mana cost for them both you use Bind + main damage ability is identical right? Neeko E costs 20 mana more than a lux Q, while Neeko Q costs 20 mana less than Lux E.

So yes they are identical, except lux has higher range on her abilities.

At most, lux uses 60 mana more, while being able to proc her passive twice, and negating some damage.

Terozu1 votes

Lux's W, costs mana.

Neekos doesnt.

Furthermore Level 5 isnt just early game, thats pre-6, if we go with first skill at level 4,

neeko on a spell round uses 140 mana,

Lux on a spell round uses 200.

So im sorry, i got the difference off by fucking 10.

a 60 mana difference isnt "nearly identical" anymore than im "nearly identical" in age to my 10 year older sister.

Especially since Lux only starts with an extra 30 mana and 1 more mana regen.

And they both start will have around 600 mana at that time.

so Neeko 600 - 140 Lux 600 - 200 Neeko 460 - 140 Lux 400 - 200 Neeko 320 - 140 Lux 200 - 200 Neeko 180 - 140 Lux 0 Neeko 40 - 40 Lux 0 Neeko 0

Neeko will be able to get off a whole extra round of spells and then probably an extra spell.

thats not insignificant, especially since Neeko's W doesnt even have a cooldown other than every 3 autos.

Still Virgiñ1 votes

What exactly are you even talking about?

Lux W is a 150 health shield at rank 1, neeko's W is a 20% MS buff. One of those spells are not like the other.

Neeko's W is pretty much a passive only, why would a passive ability cost mana?

Neeko W does have a CD, and it is longer than lux W at all ranks.

Her passive which triggers on 3 autos only does 50 dmg on a skill she maxes last. Lets say they are both lvl 10, lux passive has 110 base dmg while neeko still has 50, and a passive she can trigger once every 3 auto.

Lux can trigger her passive faster, more easily, multiple times in a single trade.

Pika Fox5 votes

Neeko isnt long range. Neither is veigar or annie.

If you want long range; ziggs, xerath, lux.

TheSymbolÔfPeace4 votes

My personal issue with Neeko is her insane 130% AP scaling on her ultimate and her 3 second stun. I understand it's suppose to reward you if you land the first two stuns, but if it increases in size and speed, why is there a reward?

Infernape2 votes

The only thing I don't like is that she can hide the charge. It defeats the point of having a cast animation.

Imagine if Lux could hide her Final Spark.

Zerenza1 votes

For a squishy mage her ulti kind of needs to be able to hide, it's only useful if she goes into the middle of a team and for her that's really hard to do. I could understand if it was someone tankier but she's definitely not tanky.

Infernape1 votes

And that's why she gets a huge ass shield for using it next to a load of enemies. Not to mention she can ult Zhonyas.

Vekkna1 votes

You say that it's hard to use Neeko's ult, but it really isn't. When you think of it as an Evelynn ult with a 360 degree aoe arc, longer range and that always deals execute-level damage. The radius range is 600 units, which is the same range as Tibbers and only 25 units shorter than Soul Shackles. But unlike all of those champs, Neeko has a movement speed boost and no telegraphing.

The thigh guy3 votes

My only complaint is that she introduced another 50/50 into the game that didn’t need to be there.

Handy Sandy 3 votes

I don't really care about her AA range, her damage in general is a little too high. EQ at level 2 or 3 can do like 50-60% of someone's health.

The Dreamwalker2 votes

I have a few suggestions. The AA nerf is good, but my problem is that ult seems a little too good. It has a good range, a hefty AP ratio, stuns, and gives a shield.

The shield is fine because it gives her needed survivability for walking into the enemy team. I think the AP ratio needs toning down. The range is fine, imo. The stun is my problem. I think she should get a root instead of a stun (only if she keeps the 130% AP ratio). So, really, tone down the AP ratio or nerf the stun into a root.

Everything is fine and is actually fun to play against.

kaironen1 votes

If you remove her w passive and lower her attack range, that would gut adc neeko which Imo is a pretty fun playstyle. I've never played her or vs her at mid lane, but i think her q base dmg is probably the biggest lane bully tool in lane. Nerfing that would be be a much better nerf than nerfing her w or attack range.

Imo, the 2 issues with neeko is her q base dmg and her ultimate damage. Her ultimate should have a lower ap ratio, by .2 or .3, and her q base dmg should be lowered a bit with a compensation buff to her ap ratio and 2nd and 3rd proc. Her root might be too long early but with the way her 2nd and 3rd proc of q works, I'm not sure how strong that root is yet.

YuGiHo1 votes

my complaint about her is just her 340 base ms. because she is a mid range mage im ok with her damage being what it is.

The Great Divide1 votes

Anivia item 3070

Summonah123691 votes

What about the fact that her ult is a mobile Nunu ult?

Atmosphere1 votes

My main gripe is her waveclear is too strong too early. Her Q triple bloom can clear the back line with half an item once you've auto'd one caster minion. Being able to push the wave that quickly without even having a full item is really obnoxious to play against

Bisaknosp1 votes

no1 talking about her retarded ult scaling and base dmg while alson having a slow and a stun and being aoe? xd

Sire Hippington1 votes

Here AA range is fine, she her overall range is not that massive and she's rather squishy with no reliable hard escape. It also allows for on-hit off-builts. also, 550 is the standart for ranged champs.

My issues with her is the upt to 3sec duration on the snare, which is a way to strong CC on burst mage, especially since it can#t be blocked, and her Ult has way to much damage for the aoe and CC it offers. The snare gives massive catch potential, and the ult can win teamfights all by it's own.

Lowering her AA range would kill offbuilts and make her feel bad to play without really hitting her issues imo.

Velasan1 votes

Honestly I'm not that impressed with Neeko. The burst is there, but I imagine they will get around to nerfing that. At base value the kit is just a typical CC and explode kind of deal minus the shape changing.

And don't get me wrong the changing into other champions is super cool... but hardly practical. In solo que you would need to rely on having a good ally to change into for the fake out.

On top of that her R makes you want to take a squishy character right into the middle of the fight, but her best build is glass cannon (so far at least).

Probably right about her auto attack range being too high though. Good shout out.

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