Can we stop the bard hate?

SleepyLionCub·May 1, 2015·23 votes·4,037 views

I just started playing bard today, and he is a FUCKING BLAST. I dont think ive ever had this much fun with a champion before. But in both of the games ive played with him, at least 2 people have complained in the champion select. I even had someone tell me that "bard is an instant loss for any team".

Well, not only did I win that game, but I had much more fun than the person who told me that.

And btw, he really isnt that bad. His heal is kinda weak, admittedly, but his meep autoattacks WRECK people once they get their AOE. And his ult has a ton of uses. His magical journey and heals give anyone a crazy amount of mobility. I outran a katarina, and a lee sin chasing me and jax, who were both at only like 200 hp, and BOTH kat, and lee sin burned flash. While me and jax didnt even need to.

He really is good, not top teir, not the next pre nerf leona, but he is a solid champ, that nobody should complain about.

65 Comments

MrRazzleDazzleMay 2, 201514 votes

His problem is that there is counterplay to everything he does and what he does isn't strong enough to justify the counterplay. Imagine if Leona couldn't stun with her E unless it hit a wall or a minion also. That would feel terrible, right? That's Bard. He has so many good things in his kit but so many things holding him back.

It costs 100 mana for (at best) a 70 hp heal at lvl 1. Nobody else's heal does so little for so much.

I never feel like I'm contributing enough to the team as opposed to other supports. I have my occasional helpful moments, but generally I feel like my team is winning in spite of me not because of me.

At what point does a double edged sword become worth wielding?

OperationDEEZ1May 2, 20152 votes

"At what point does a double edged sword become worth wielding?" When you learn how to Half-Sword.

AkeydelMay 2, 20151 votes

Upvoted for the sheer nonsense.

HouseCat01May 3, 20151 votes

when you take 1/29/0 masteries :D

BremerdanGorstMay 2, 20151 votes

Sona heal QQ.

MohawkBirdMay 1, 20157 votes

We don't hate Bard, we hate the fact that his whole kit is basically counter-intuitive to his role. A stun that only stuns if it hits more than one champion, a wall, or a minion; a magical journey that allows enemies; and a ult that can screw over his team just as much as it helps, not to mention it's ridiculous caste time if you try to support from a distance. There are so many other champions that do what he wants 10x better. Not to mention no other support ult can screw over his team.

Serge THE GREATMay 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We don't hate Bard, we hate the fact that his whole kit is basically counter-intuitive to his role. A stun that only stuns if it hits more than one champion, a wall, or a minion; a magical journey that allows enemies; and a ult that can screw over his team just as much as it helps, not to mention it's ridiculous caste time if you try to support from a distance. There are so many other champions that do what he wants 10x better. Not to mention no other support ult can screw over his team.

Perhaps no other support ultimate can, but Alistar can botch combos and help the enemy escape.

MacDthreeMay 2, 20152 votes

i would like to take a second and talk about the Janna ult enemy saves lol

Biff ManlyMay 2, 20154 votes

I had a Bard support last game. He kept smacking them with meeps and stunning them against eachother. Then he wandered off after I got first blood, as Bards do. I figured I was flubbernucked, but he had kindly left 3 massive health and movespeed boosts for me on the way to our turret. And then he kept swooping back in and glueing enemies to walls. It was way better than, say, a Leona pulling herself into a crowd of enemies and getting stomped.

SleepyLionCubMay 2, 20154 votes

Just to be clear. I am not in any way saying bard doesnt need a few buffs. Because he does. What I am saying though, is that he isnt a troll pick. He isnt SO BAD that you should want to report, or harass people for picking him. He needs a little more to help his team with, since he can really hurt his team too.

Just a few personal buffs id like to see on him:

His passive movespeed boost while out of combat, is increased to 10 seconds, from 7. This will help him get meeps, and then get back to lane, without leaving his adc hanging for too long. Thus hurting his team less.

Q: the slow/stun should be the way it is honestly. I know there is a lot of controversy about it being extremely hard to land, and not doing much if you miss. But trying to buff it in any way makes it feel like it would be too strong.

W: Cost is actually fine, bard collects meeps, and generally never runs out of mana anyways. This being said however, the charge up time is way too much. 10 seconds is an eternity in league, lower it from 10 to 8 seconds to charge, and also make it give a third of the health as bonus mana. Im not sure how I can word this, but lets say bard's shrine gives you 75 HP, I would like for it to also give you 25 mana on top of that 75 HP.

E: I feel this ability is great as it is. Very cool, very new, and allows for some interesting plays, that we would NEVER see before bard.

R: the infamous team killer... I think its super weird how the enemy team can see where its going to land, even if its fired from very far away. it should work more like ziggs' ult where the area of effect is only visible to enemies for a brief time before they are hit. (note: this may already happen, im not sure actually, but it seems like enemies can see where its going to land even if i fire from like 2000 units away. )

Jamatrix666May 2, 20151 votes

I recently posted a thread sharing my experience with him. I invite you to read it, you will probably find it interesting. Clicking on my profile picture should lead you to my comments and threads, the one I'm talking to you about is named "@Riot: Bard made me a better player in general"

Also, I agree with you, he's fun and not as bad as people think. I can't wait for when the community realizes it so he can get the recognition he deserves. Riot has done a good job buffing him patches after patches, I hope they will continue their work on him to make him slightly less punishing.

kile147May 2, 20152 votes

I agree with your ideas for the most part, his W doesn't need a mana reduction it needs some late game help, and his ult is way too easy to dodge at long range. The one thing I'd like to change is his Q travel distance when hitting a target. I think it would be cool if after hitting one target his Q went even further past it (I know it already extends the distance somewhat, but a bit more would be nice for some awesome super ranged stuns).

Mega Annie XMay 2, 20154 votes

Lets face it. You guys need to stop PICKING bard. His kit has no synergy. A support should be able to do one thing well.

Examples.

Janna Peels and shield + movespeed. That is literally what her entire kit focuses on. There is no part of her kit that doesnt help her peel for her team.

Thresh : Tanky controller. 3 forms of cc. That alone makes him nuts. On top of that, he has one of the best get out of fail free cards in the game.

Annie: Burst support. You literally blow up the enemy so the adc can get fed.

Leona: Megatank initiator. Long range stuns, rapid fire stuns, mitigation, and passive to boost ally burst. Nothing in her kit works against the other abilities.

Now lets look at healers.

Soraka is the worst healer even though she has the strongest healing BECAUSE her kit offers little to nothing outside of healing.

Sona, taric BOTH are skirmisher healers. They spam their spells and give aura/buffs/and sustain to allies.

If we were to classify bard as a skirmisher, then we must assess his kit.

Taric at level 6 will do over 500 damage with his full combo. This also includes a targetted stun, targetted heal for both ally and self, armor shredding, and increased states.

Sona will do 400 damage and has a 5 second cooldown on her nuke, she also provides shields, haste, burst damage to ally and aoe stun.

Bard offers 170 damage at level 6, a conditional stun, a nontargetted heal which cost an astronimical amount of mana, a walk through wall with the combat utility of a spotlight glowing on the battlefield, and an ult with a delay so long, it usually helps the enemy instead of hurt them.

SleepyLionCubMay 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyper Nautilus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yAJe6L0z,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2015-05-02T09:26:52.744+0000)

Lets face it. You guys need to stop PICKING bard. His kit has no synergy. A support should be able to do one thing well.

Examples.

Janna Peels and shield + movespeed. That is literally what her entire kit focuses on. There is no part of her kit that doesnt help her peel for her team.

Thresh : Tanky controller. 3 forms of cc. That alone makes him nuts. On top of that, he has one of the best get out of fail free cards in the game.

Annie: Burst support. You literally blow up the enemy so the adc can get fed.

Leona: Megatank initiator. Long range stuns, rapid fire stuns, mitigation, and passive to boost ally burst. Nothing in her kit works against the other abilities.

Now lets look at healers.

Soraka is the worst healer even though she has the strongest healing BECAUSE her kit offers little to nothing outside of healing.

Sona, taric BOTH are skirmisher healers. They spam their spells and give aura/buffs/and sustain to allies.

If we were to classify bard as a skirmisher, then we must assess his kit.

Taric at level 6 will do over 500 damage with his full combo. This also includes a targetted stun, targetted heal for both ally and self, armor shredding, and increased states.

Sona will do 400 damage and has a 5 second cooldown on her nuke, she also provides shields, haste, burst damage to ally and aoe stun.

Bard offers 170 damage at level 6, a conditional stun, a nontargetted heal which cost an astronimical amount of mana, a walk through wall with the combat utility of a spotlight glowing on the battlefield, and an ult with a delay so long, it usually helps the enemy instead of hurt them.

Bard offers some of the most mobility ive ever seen from a support. He is like karma, except he can also make a giant portal through terrain.

YormaughmMay 2, 20151 votes

You can target Bard's heal. You won't get the 10 second version, but you can insta-cast it by clicking on allies or their portraits. I honestly feel like somehow most people still don't know this. And Bard's mana issues basically stop existing after like his first back.

Luna AensMay 2, 20153 votes

For me, to be honest, is the fact that his Kit is interesting but it just seems like a bunch of skills that don't synergyze very well or some skills feel like a toned down version of other skills. . (They sort of fit with his concept I suppose).

-A mediocre heal that's mainly focused on the lane phase

-The stun has to be used correctly, otherwise it wont do much aside from damage

-The little portal is an interesting skill, nothing else to say about that.

-His ult is probably the most interesting part about his kit, he is basically a walking Zhonyas with a way longer cooldown, which can either be good, or extremely bad for your team. Not only that(Correct me if i'm wrong), the cooldowns go down while in stasis, so it can easily benefit an enemy if caught in it (Kass for example).

I feel like his concept is cool but wasn't executed so well, specially when other champions can do the same thing Bard does, but better.

kile147May 2, 20151 votes

The portal and his stun synergize really well, because you get a guaranteed stun if enemies follow you through. That may not seem like a big deal but I have completely wiped enemy teams before because they chase me to the portal only to be met with me and Riven (or another similar champ) on the other side. When you get enemies in such a tiny area who are stunned, they get wrecked by any AoE.

The LovelessMay 2, 20153 votes

It's justified

IcyPepperMay 2, 20153 votes

He has a 46% win rate, meaning for every 100 games, he'll lose 8 more games than he'll win.

But that's still 46 games won.

And you know what? Bard may seem underpowered, but he requires skill that people oh so bring up everytime a discussion over an "OP" champion being nerfed (omg Sejuani requires skill now on her ult, get gud scrub).

Well screw them. You want to talk about skill, well Bard's your best shot to show everyone who's the best. You play Bard, you wreck with him, you go make every player on Summoner's Rift fear the meeps.

Kick some ass for me.

Blame The CarryMay 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

He has a 46% win rate, meaning for every 100 games, he'll lose 8 more games than he'll win.

But that's still 46 games won.

And you know what? Bard may seem underpowered, but he requires skill that people oh so bring up everytime a discussion over an "OP" champion being nerfed (omg Sejuani requires skill now on her ult, get gud scrub).

Well screw them. You want to talk about skill, well Bard's your best shot to show everyone who's the best. You play Bard, you wreck with him, you go make every player on Summoner's Rift fear the meeps.

Kick some ass for me.

This is how I feel. I bought Bard when he first came out because I like champions that are (apparently) versatile like Rek'Sai being, yes, a jungle beast, but a decent mid / top laner as well if played by someone who can swing it. I thought Bard's E would be jg heaven considering the only other junglers with that type of long-range gap closing ability are Rammus and RekSai both of which their team mates can't also take advantage of said gap -closer.

Now, It's not like I'm saying Bard is a great jungler, top laner, mid, or support in the way that more traditional roles are but he can do a bit of damage with meeps building item 3115 , item 3078 , and item 3025 which are items that you typically won't have the luxury to build as a support but can wreck with in other role.

His ult? Well, yea, it can screw a lot of stuff up. I played Bard recently this week while Zed is F2P, so there was an enemy Zed and a friendly Zed and so many squishies to protect that as soon as I'd see (or hear) Zed trigger his ult, I'd ult the person getting ulted.

Well, apparently every time the other Zed ulted, our Zed would ult their Zed or nearest squishy and my ult would cancel out both of theirs which (lead to probably both of them) raging. It's something you have to get a feel for and honestly it's not an ult that you're just counting down the seconds for it to come up so you can engage or disengage. It's more like an "as needed" thing, whether to catch an enemy or objective and hold them for a few seconds so your team can catch up or yourself/ team against a Karthus , Katarina , Draven , Ezreal , Ziggs ult if you plan it and stay clumped.

All this aside, Bard is a strong champ. The pros have said he is strong and his utility and map-dominance can be unparalleled if the game works in his favor. Which basically means he's been able to roam and collect enough chimes so A. his auto-attacks hit like a MAC truck and do AoE damage (around 45 chimes) and B. He's been able to collect chimes to replenish the mana he's used in lane which will allow him to possibly assists / gank other lanes. Chimes give experience too, so there's your two incentives for roaming. Bard can't win a game if he can't roam and his team doesn't dominate the map objective-wise. Keep in mind those win-rate stats come from all ELO's which most players are between the Bronze and Silver level and **Bard has a higher success rate in games that last around 35 minutes at least. ** He's a lot of fun to play but you have to commit to his playstyle. He's definitely not a casual pick that will have great synergy with any ADC or team-comp. He's a champ that requires your team to have enough synergy and understanding / communication to execute well.

AsulMay 1, 20152 votes

ikr.. people whine too much! I mean honestly? Bard is like Soraka... but people never whine when we choose Soraka.

KeevalroyMay 2, 20151 votes

but people never whine when we choose Soraka.

Shrinks in chair

FirstSergeantBimMay 2, 20151 votes

For a champ whose main role is support, it's pretty incredible the amount of hate she gets for it. There's two types of people: those that fear the Raka and those that don't. Those that don't fear the Raka are most likely ignorant of her power not because they haven't faced a Raka before, but because they haven't actually noticed her make the difference in a match.

She's pretty subtle and unless you know what to look for, it's easy to dismiss her as a terrible pick. Despite this, it's priceless to go up against a team whose been conditioned to "focus the ADC" and nothing else. I'm throwing sparkles at Graves for 360+ HP and they refuse to switch targets. Such fun!

NarasimhaMay 2, 20152 votes

Its not that he's BAD, per se. Its just that theres no reason to pick him over any other support. He can't heal or poke as well as Sona, his cc is a joke compared to Leona or Braum. His utility is worse than Nami's and Tarics. And his ult is too situational .

FancyKiwiMay 2, 20152 votes

I like playing Bard but the two problems I see with Bard are that most people don't know how to play him and he doesn't really have anything he can call his. They even don't stack his passive so he loses power or they stack much so they are never in lane. Other supports do everything he does but better. Janna's Q is Bard's Q but better in every way. Nami, Sona and Soraka all have better heals. The portal would be his thing but the enemy team can take so that's out. His ult fucks over his own team more than the enemy most of the time.

QarekeoMay 2, 20152 votes

I actually had a Corki tell me to play Bard in ranked.

We had a tough time in lane against Caitlyn and Leona and Corki flamed a bit, but after the laning phase was through we were able to make crazy plays and catch out a gold Gragas .

I'm Silver in ranked, so counterplay on him may not come into play so much, but he's really fun, especially when played as a siege tank with sneakily-placed item 3512 s

kile147May 2, 20152 votes

I love the portal on him, the stats are great and combined with his mobility it allows him to pressure multiple lanes well. I also use it to bolster his waveclear. You drop that under your tower while the enemy is sieging and you can hold it alone pretty well since any dives can be met with a Q or an ult.

KrigjerMay 2, 20152 votes

I've started picking my champs ahead of time in case I miss the timer, then I think about whether I should pick something else for our comp.

Picked Bard one game, started considering going Morgana instead. Top lane piped up 'omg no, don't go Bard, worst champion in the game, fact. Go Morgana instead.' Alright, have it your way /locks Bard And then I went like 2/5/23

Also, this:

Real problem with him is that his team actually needs to work with him. Most players couldn't pay less attention to what their team is doing in fights or whatever. So he's weak just because of that.

2Charmnot2CharmMay 2, 20152 votes

I hate bard cause they always use his ult wrong and screws his teammates over.

Ex. Zed leaves target to die to death mark in a team fight, bard for whatever reason ults saving the doomed adc from dying and now able to stay in the fight for longer while zed skills are now on cd wasted.

Shit like that happen with almost every bard ult in my exp so fuck it banned.

doiminat0r3600May 2, 20152 votes

If he didnt have the lowest winrate in the world then maybe.

SleepyLionCubMay 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If he didnt have the lowest winrate in the world then maybe.

Lee sin has a lower winrate. Just sayin, winrate doesnt really mean a lot in terms of strength. Winrate usually reflects difficulty.

doiminat0r3600May 2, 20151 votes

actually.... bard has the lowest winrate. did you even check the stats?

Mandang0May 2, 20152 votes

In lane, ADCs don't like laning 1v2 while Bard goes on a chime scavenger hunt. Once teamfights roll around, teammates hate having their plans messed up by Bard ult.

I think both of these would be better if you were in voice chat w/ the Bard, but they're big annoyances when you're not.

The Queen ViperMay 2, 20152 votes

No?

He's really bad and useless when compared to other supports. He barely brings anything to the team, except few ways to troll.

Count LieberkuhnMay 2, 20152 votes

I'm with you, I've been playing Bard a lot lately, and with enough practice he transitions from being insanely fun to being insanely fun AND effective. He's unorthodox, but most of his weaknesses can be overcome with practice and good playing. The main thing you need to remember - a roam is NEVER worth it if it will not get you to the next significant tier of his passive. Damage upgrades are highest priority, followed by slows.

Don't roam unless you can make a significant upgrade to your passive. Besides, most of your chimes can be picked up when you recall. You just take the more scenic route back to lane is all.

Critmaster GarenMay 2, 20152 votes

its less hate, and more pity.

his kit is for the most part useless in lane. he might take off later on, but that doesnt help if your bot lane fed 20 kills, because he has nothing to apply pressure. even his heal doesnt help much, since he never has it available on demand in a sticky situation.

other supports and tanks just bring so much more to the lane than he does.

soraka is more useful than bard. she has heals on demand, poke, and her silence can be pretty big in a fight. bard literally only has 1 ability, because the shrines need a charge up time of 10 seconds, and the tunnel is completely useless down the lane. plus, most people screw up his ult anyays.

ive made better experiences with zilean at my side, than with bard.

MrRazzleDazzleMay 3, 20151 votes

Bard has one great match up in lane : Braum

Every time he swoops in to take a hit for his teammate, Bard can easily get his stun off.

That is if you ever see a Braum in the wild, of course.

Rand0mH3r0XMay 2, 20152 votes

Bard is countered so hard just by Nunu in every single way. I honestly hate bard. He roams, but he cannot support himself. You got lucky that bad people couldn't hit you just once. But one experience in one game doesn't amount to all of your experiences, and all our ours. Bard does way more bad than good: Leaves carry to collect chimes Puts Team in Stasis, or Enemy allowing for CD to resume. A nunu ult following this is what makes this stupid. Forces carries to certain locations in order to be healed Taunts enemies to chase Allows a portal for all to pass.

Strategic positioning really is the core of Bard. He seriously sucks though; Bard a lot of waiting with not a lot of reward.

Leti the YetiMay 2, 20151 votes

I was a pretty kickass bard the other day... well our adc never connected by the little things i did once in a blue moon was pretty awesome clutch heals clutch slows clutch stuns but ff20 anyway

YormaughmMay 2, 20151 votes

This.

If you team doesn't know what Bard does, or doesn't trust Bard to make plays, you lose, but I'd wager it's almost never Bard's fault. The only way Bard can ever truly fuck his team is with a bad Ult, and that's something real Bard players won't do very often.

Honestly I feel like Bard's been out long enough to where most people playing him are fairly confident they know how to make plays with him. But EVERYONE who doesn't play Bard just dismisses him as worthless because they don't know what he does. (Pro tip: this is true of the enemy team too, use this to your advantage, teams with Bard.)

But to the earlier point, playing Bard is sometimes awful for the Bard player because teammates don't know what to do.

It's like: "Hey I know we're teamfighting so lemme just clutch heal you and give you that movespeed boost to chase them down for that last AA.....or you could run away...that's cool I guess."

Or: "I'm in the jungle collecting chimes, Oh shit they dived us? I'ma E through the jungle from a million miles away and land a perfect Q that stuns two enemies....and y'all disengage leaving me to die...(except I don't because Bard's movespeed is OP.)"

Or: "Ally ADC low health getting chased down, Ult the person chasing them and stand there ready to Insta-Q them against a wall and drop a heal on the ADC, and....you blow all your mobility running away...that's cool not like the two of us could kill a stunlocked enemy or anything. Next time I'll just use my ult like you use Zhonya's, to delay your inevitable death for 2.5 more seconds."

Or: "Enemy is low health and headed for the safety of their turret...ult the turret and drop an E that comes out of the other side of it, take the E to either secure the kill or heal anyone who dived too slowly, and die to the enemy because nobody followed up on my ult OR my E."

Bard's allies have no idea how useful he is in fights, and neither do his enemies. He can sustain pretty well and turn the tide without too much difficulty. But as long as allies only see him as a disengage tool, he'll never win games.

Arcade AndrewMay 2, 20151 votes

the only problem with bard is when the chimes spawn in ridiculous locations around the map (which I generally predicted when they let us know how his kit worked)

I kid you not Ive had a game where at least 10-15 chimes spawned inside the enemy base within the first 30 minutes of the game,

one time I had my first chime spawn right under the enemy bot turret

bard wouldnt be so bad if they realized that maybe JUST MAYBE a full map roaming support was a terrible idea, and then introducing a cool fun champion then screwing him over by making his only good thing on him his one downfall , screwed him over real good

TLDR: the chime spawn rates/ and locations are purely based on luck and determine if youlll do good as bard or not

kile147May 2, 20151 votes

They've improved that spawning behavior in this patch, guaranteeing that for the first 5 mins at least no chimes will spawn in enemy territory. And while the RNGods can screw you over with the spawns, you can control it somewhat by being on your side during the timed that the chime waves spawn.

Arcade AndrewMay 2, 20151 votes

yeah the enemy jungle... thats half of the map half the time i didnt care if the spawned in the enemy blue side, thats on my half of the map , but when they spawn in the enemy base, under turrets or near enemy red/friendly blue (assuming youre on the blue side of the map) its a pain in the ass

MrRazzleDazzleMay 2, 20151 votes

Under the red turret in bot is the worst. Blue side doesn't have within aggro range of the turret as a spawn location. I'm fairly certain chimes never spawn in a base.

Carpe VictoriaMay 2, 20151 votes

He's a pretty good poke champ late game after getting enough chimes and a good team fight utility champ...both of which leave a lot of times when he's not the absolute best. I don't think it has as much to do with his kit as it does the way a lot of people play and all the original release weeks left a bad impression for a lot of people.

I do wish his E had a secondary function on targets though instead of just being the tunnel.

Troll DetectedMay 2, 20151 votes

Your post wont help. They will keep hating bard until he steps in the LCS game. Teemo

NorthernDruidMay 2, 20151 votes

Bard is really decent, and a lot of fun to play. With only a bit of coordination, he gives incredible utility to his team, and with his passive he does actually pack a bit of a punch.

His main problem is that his heal is really weak for how long it takes to charge. Sure, a full three-heal cluster is really good burst heal, but that needs to be set up far in advance, so his potential good heals are severely conditional.

If you could have more shrines out at once, or if it healed for max/missing hp as well (scaling up with the charging), then he'd be in a really good spot, even if you fail to collect enough chimes or your teammates decide to ignore your portals to safety.

On top of all that, maybe the difference between fully charged and half-charged would be noticeable enough for people to stop picking up half-charged heals when we're not in a hurry.

OperationDEEZ1May 2, 20151 votes

Is there a pattern to when chimes spawn? Because that knowledge could be very helpful actually.

MrRazzleDazzleMay 2, 20151 votes

From personal experience the first 3 minutes or so will spawn around you. If your lane is pushing up towards the enemy turret I have noticed that chimes are more likely to spawn in their jungle or in the river.

There must be a cooldown for how long a chime takes to spawn in a repeat location, because as the game goes on and you haven't collected all of the dangerous chimes soon enough, they start spawning further out.

warpenguin555May 2, 20151 votes

the problem is that when you are 1st learning him there is a high chance of accidentally screwing over your team. But he is a good support once you learn him and gets alot of unearned hate