We all know 5.4 sucked but...

SleepyLionCub·Feb 27, 2015·83 votes·5,122 views

by the looks at the PBE. 5.5 is going to FUCKING ROCK!!!

Huge tank jungle buffs

Vi nerfs

Azir buffs

Grag buffs

slight Lissandra nerfs.

Way to go riot! these changes are awesome.

92 Comments

The Y2J ProblemFeb 28, 201518 votes

I saw buffs for both Azir and Urgot and nearly experienced cardiac arrest.

Also Cho'Gath reskin. This texture rebalance looks REALLY good.

Blue Moon WolfFeb 28, 20155 votes

wait, cho reskin?! item 3069 Chogath

BlainezyFeb 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Italian Ice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1neayfBA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-02-28T00:51:51.492+0000)

I saw buffs for both and and nearly experienced cardiac arrest.

Also Cho'Gath reskin. This texture rebalance looks REALLY good.

Lezbehonest....the Urgod "buff" is still useless. lol

ShadyWolfeMar 1, 20151 votes

Urgod used to be an unstoppable menace long ago so giving him too many buffs will bring back horrible memories for the Summoners who played during his reign. He has a rework planned so any buffs or nerfs are not going to mean much.

HeadHonchkrowFeb 28, 20158 votes

Urgot buffs too!

BorblandFeb 28, 20157 votes

Really nice patch, except for Lissandra nerfs (She's not broken, she's just a good counte to most of curretlys FotM, she was never played before, I even got flamed playing her like 3 months after her release).

MemeticMachineFeb 28, 20155 votes

I wouldn't say huge tank buffs... don't Jinx it... it's still in PBE. they can troll us anytime.

4nth0l0gyFeb 28, 20155 votes

"Huge tank jungle buffs"

Whoa, let's not get too ahead of ourselves. They reduced the health granted by the new jungle tank item a full 30%. Sure, you now get 25% bonus health scaling with it, but that's a big hit early, which is when tanks typically struggle the most. It ALSO costs 1000 gold for Bami's Cinder, making it the most expensive build component of any jungle item.

Finally, they removed the CDR granted by the item. This is a nerf, no way around it.

The extra damage for farming is nice, but we've been saying how necessary that is for months. Sunfire passive in combat is helpful early game, but I still feel shortchanged. Riot seems afraid to give tanks any reasonable amount of combat power early game.

Edit**: the bonus health passive might apply to the item itself, granting ~437 hp total. Also brutalized for warrior is technically the most expensive build component for a jungle item, although 2 long swords are easy pickups. Item's not as bad as I thought, though, minus the lack of CDR.

MessaigaFeb 27, 20154 votes

That + 2 damage buff on Skarner's Q (+ 4 if charged). I think they have the right intent but don't know what some champs need, which Skarner really doesn't need anything. Naut changes look good, I like the new enchant as well (though % Bonus HP should be available to all tanks, not just jungle).

SleepyLionCubFeb 27, 20153 votes

{quoted}

That + 2 damage buff on Skarner's Q (+ 4 if charged). I think they have the right intent but don't know what some champs need, which Skarner really doesn't need anything. Naut changes look good, I like the new enchant as well (though % Bonus HP should be available to all tanks, not just jungle).

His Q is so spammable though. It will help his early game clear times for sure.

TerchioMar 1, 20151 votes

About 60% of all his skills' DPS comes from his Q before cooldown passive (more after), plus mobility and attack speed. Fracture buff will change this, but 180 damage maxed is still not enough to make Skarner any more than his Q. It's probably the game's most overloaded skill, which helps make him downright useless once level 9 passes by. Q is the last thing Skarner needed buffed unless his buff was double-handed, such as a damage-to-monsters buff while decreasing base damage on Q, and then that would open room for realistic buffs on W and E.

Right now, however, they overloaded his CC to the point that they were forced to make him fight through his own mechanics to work through it, and this tendency on most reworks has made them all non-viable, as it's hard enough to fight your enemy as he squirms, but your own wonky mechanics makes it nigh impossible. That is what they should be trying to undo, as having a harder-to-use Udyr stun isn't very attractive.

Smooth CrimiñalFeb 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That + 2 damage buff on Skarner's Q (+ 4 if charged). I think they have the right intent but don't know what some champs need, which Skarner really doesn't need anything. Naut changes look good, I like the new enchant as well (though % Bonus HP should be available to all tanks, not just jungle).

How did Naut's changes help him?

Daedalus871Feb 28, 20154 votes

4 to 6 second riptide cooldown instead of 10.

Silents429Feb 28, 20158 votes

That doesn't help him though, Nautilus players max W for clearing. And that lost half its base damage.

Daedalus871Feb 28, 20151 votes

Now Nautilus players max E for clearing. It's gained twice the damage.

Silents429Mar 1, 20151 votes

According to stonewall008's facebook Nautilus hasn't gained anything from these, If he puts 2 in W and maxes E he clears better but this is well after his first clear. Where he didn't have a problem before.

I am not going to complain, the E change was good, I just want context behind why the W had to get ruined.

Auz the RipperFeb 28, 20152 votes

I'm pretty sure riot's trying to get Naut player to max E first, by making it more a perma-slowy spammy DPS skill

BlackSunNocturneFeb 28, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Okami Akio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1neayfBA,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-02-27T23:47:22.884+0000)

How did Naut's changes help him?

He can use his E every 2 seconds with 40% CDR.

AOE Slow. That does damage. On a 2 second cooldown.

I am excited for this one, tbh.

WhereTheNamesAtFeb 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Okami Akio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1neayfBA,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-02-27T23:47:22.884+0000)

How did Naut's changes help him?

He gets to spam E a lot more

19348180DEL1Feb 28, 20151 votes

I know +2 doesn't sound like much, but consider that the very first Dragon buff will amplify this effect.

MessaigaFeb 28, 20151 votes

Dragon gives bonus AD and doesn't affect base damages. Nothing really changed (totally fine w/ it). 18/28/38/48/58 was an awkward number anyway, so the increase helps make math a lot easier.

Speaking of Evelynn (your name) I hope she gets some love, same for Nocturne and Kha. These changes look like they'll shake up the meta.

Buttigieg 2020Feb 28, 20154 votes

Nautilus changes seem random. He was one of the better tank junglers. But I like the new Jung item and voli buffs.

ApplyForAGrantFeb 28, 20153 votes

Too bad everyone is gonna be complaining about Nidalee buffs and forget about all the good things in this PBE cycle.

The Y2J ProblemFeb 28, 201514 votes

{quoted}

Too bad everyone is gonna be complaining about Nidalee buffs and forget about all the good things in this PBE cycle.

But Bushwhack lost its current health damage! Finally, now Nid can be healthy now that BUSHWHACK has been nerfed!

Comedy! Sarcasm! Laughing!

Remlap1223Feb 28, 20153 votes

That CinemaSins reference. +1 for that my good sir.

Spears! Traps! Plays!

Scuttler SlayerFeb 28, 20153 votes

Did you even read the patch notes??

Naut got nerfed - yes nerfed. Why do tank junglers have trouble jungling? Lack of damage to clear (quickly). What have they done? Made W a joke.

Nidalee's getting buffed. If a balance team member has to actually say "THIS IS A NERF" next to the changes, it's not a nerf.

Vi's nerf is meaningless. Even less than what they did to j4, and we know he's still God Tier.

Honestly Riot isn't helping the game with this patch.

But hey! More skins for champs who don't need them! Yay!

Yorick

kitcat300Feb 28, 20151 votes

Riptides CD was cut in half, and they have said they are keeping an eye on titans wrath.

The percent health shred on bushwack was removed, thus slowing down her jungle clear speed.

Less MS and less damage at early ranks of ult is still a nerf, small or not. You got the Vi nerfs that everyone has been begging for, take them and go.

Scuttler SlayerFeb 28, 20151 votes

I know that Riptide's CD was cut in half, but I don't see why they should change W in the first place. Again, it's not like he was dealing too much damage...

I'm pretty confident her clear speed will still be very fast. Regardless, I don't see why she would need any compensation buffs.

No. I did not get the Vi nerfs "I" was looking for. Cause if that's the case, Lee's E nerfs were also the nerfs "I" was looking for.

KevinDelMarrFeb 28, 20151 votes

With Naut late game it's because you're pumping out a ton of E's (one around every 3 seconds) and the jungle item is adding around 20 to 60 magic damage a second, which makes up for the 25 damage lost on W. His E damage and slow potential is through the roof right now, and with the jungle item he would be one massive tank (his W shield strength is massive now as well)

Scuttler SlayerFeb 28, 20152 votes

The issue with jungle tanks is their EARLY game.

What did this change (W) do? Hurt his EARLY game.

I'm not saying the buff to E is going to hurt him. I know it's a powerful change for him; but not early, when he needs it.

ForgiveColourFeb 28, 20153 votes

oh look another rito move to make dummy forget about that there 4 champ below 40% win rate

AuryielFeb 28, 20153 votes

Lissandra not gutted?

What sorcery is this!

I expected her passive to come up every 2 minutes and her base mana regen to be nerfed to 0.85

A Miss FortuneFeb 28, 20152 votes

The current Azir buffs will NOT change anything AT ALL. His range is only being increased by a very small ammount.

Today I tried to ask my Azir mid laner to switch with Thresh support because I knew that Azir would be entirely useless.

I use to main Azir mid/top lane, he is going to need a lot more than a range buff. He has poor health, mana, damage, range, and sustain. Where he specializes in aka late game and burst damage, he falls off hard.

SleepyLionCubFeb 28, 201522 votes

{quoted}

The current buffs will NOT change anything AT ALL. His range is only being increased by a very small ammount.

Today I tried to ask my Azir mid laner to switch with Thresh support because I knew that Azir would be entirely useless.

I use to main Azir mid/top lane, he is going to need a lot more than a range buff. He has poor health, mana, damage, range, and sustain. Where he specializes in aka late game and burst damage, he falls off hard.

The change is something. And it may have more impact than we think. Just look at Ahri.

ZephyrDrakeFeb 28, 20154 votes

{quoted}

The change is something. And it may have more impact than we think. Just look at Ahri.

slight range increase =/= insane move speed

aperson1Feb 28, 20159 votes

Slight changes in range can make all the difference. 50 range could be the difference between 1 and 2 autos on a target after Q'ing them.

A Miss FortuneFeb 28, 20152 votes

Azir just simply doesn't do damage anymore. He statistically has nothing going for him and yes he does become stronger late game at the moment, though I think most champions still do far more damage.

I want to compare high ranged champions with good lane bullying/winning capabilities.

Caitlyn has a high range. She doesn't do that much damage early game but still pokes hard regardless with her Q. So did Azir , but both of them have high range as well and both of their poking abilities can't be spammed or they will lose mana very quickly.

Caitlyn is generally referred to as an ADC that does very well in winning lane/bullying with high range and defense capabilities but falls off hard late game.

Azir was a mage that bullied lane well and too had escape capabilities, but he became a high threat late game especially in teamfights if everyone was bundled up together.

Caitlyn who is said to fall off late game where Azir is said to go beyond what most people can do with damage, still does more damage than Azir and would easily kill him in a duel.

By this simple comparison I think it's obvious that Azir needs more damage. Caitlyn and Azir are similar. Range, laning methods (zoning off the enemy, farming till they get items, trying to poke the enemy down for a kill), and also both having a rather similar escape ability with I think about the same cooldown if I remember. Caitlyn however is made for early game where Azir is better for late game, yet Caitlyn still is better than Azir late game and in my opinion has more carrying potential now.

youngjake93Feb 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Azir just simply doesn't do damage anymore. He statistically has nothing going for him and yes he does become stronger late game at the moment, though I think most champions still do far more damage.

I want to compare high ranged champions with good lane bullying/winning capabilities.

has a high range. She doesn't do that much damage early game but still pokes hard regardless with her Q. So did , but both of them have high range as well and both of their poking abilities can't be spammed or they will lose mana very quickly.

Caitlyn is generally referred to as an ADC that does very well in winning lane/bullying with high range and defense capabilities but falls off hard late game.

Azir was a mage that bullied lane well and too had escape capabilities, but he became a high threat late game especially in teamfights if everyone was bundled up together.

Caitlyn who is said to fall off late game where Azir is said to go beyond what most people can do with damage, still does more damage than Azir and would easily kill him in a duel.

By this simple comparison I think it's obvious that Azir needs more damage. Caitlyn and Azir are similar. Range, laning methods (zoning off the enemy, farming till they get items, trying to poke the enemy down for a kill), and also both having a rather similar escape ability with I think about the same cooldown if I remember. Caitlyn however is made for early game where Azir is better for late game, yet Caitlyn still is better than Azir late game and in my opinion has more carrying potential now.

Caitlyn falls off mid-game, not late-game. She is actually one of the best 6 item carries because of her passive and range.

A Miss FortuneFeb 28, 20151 votes

Azir does no damage. You can give someone the range across the map, but it doesn't mean they can kill someone you need damage, which Azir does not have no matter what part of the game. Late game it's a bit better but honestly I would prefer AP Janna mid lane to Azir.

Knight SoIaire Feb 28, 20155 votes

azir does good damage

but without range he just cant get any of it to his enemies thats why nerfs rekt him

so if they give even some range back to azir it will be a huge improvement imo

19348180DEL1Feb 28, 20153 votes

Yes, it is essentially the width of a small minion, which, in terms of battle conditions, positioning, and timing, is going to have an a major impact in one way or another. 50 Range increase on many champions is essentially the difference between getting the kill and having a bad chase, missing the last hit and continuing the farming streak. In Azir's case, its the difference between having to cast another skill to gain an edge and just auto attacking on the first action, which translates to a huge advantage when leading into a combo.

GaleWinUnleashedFeb 28, 20157 votes

50 range is not small. That'll make a huge difference.

SilverclawFeb 28, 20153 votes

I know right! It's the difference from Ashe range (Great) to Caitlyn range (INSANE), or most melee's (125) to champs like Jarvan, Wukong, Yasuo, and Q evolved Kha'Zix (175). Yet people think it means nothing? What.

Yandere CarryFeb 28, 20152 votes

i think the tank jungle buff would be better if it stacked w/ sunfire

Cosmic WarperFeb 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tang Bohu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1neayfBA,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-02-28T03:40:35.893+0000)

i think the tank jungle buff would be better if it stacked w/ sunfire

That would be too broken as you would have 200 dmg per second tanks just running at your face and dealing tons of damage on top of it.

Yandere CarryFeb 28, 20151 votes

where the hell did 200 dps come from? At most its (25+18) + (15+18)= 76per second

HandheldBrandonFeb 28, 20152 votes

Recipe: [Bami's Cinder + Jungle Item + 350g] Total Cost: 2200g (Two of them currently say 2000 - intended cost is 2200 though.) +350 Health +25% Bonus Health UNIQUE Passive - Immolate: While in combat, deals 15 (+1 per champion level) magic damage a second to nearby enemies. This increases up to 100% based on time in combat.

its not just 15+18 the damage is also increased the longer you are in combat and stacks 10 times (from my PBE tests.)

Yandere CarryFeb 28, 20151 votes

that's the issue I see though. How fast does it ramp up? If it's over 10 seconds it isn't that great. ;-;

Athenes LuluFeb 28, 20152 votes

Inb4 Rito reverts most of them.

COWmanLordFeb 28, 20152 votes

Range is honestly exactly what azir needs. My brother was an Azir main pretty much since his release and he worked for a long time learning him and becoming great at him. The main reason he found it hard to play Azir after he nerfs was because the range was too short. I just hope that the buffs put him in a spot where he is strong, but not as op as he was before.

And of course I just love seeing someone happy and excited in these boards which are basically the land of despair and fury. :D