didn't even need an update, but he's the best out of the updates.
her jungleing got gutted to hell and back. Riot said they were going to make her less ult focused to give her power in her under abilities. But for what I hear nothing changed.
...LMAO!!! Yeah let's not talk about him.
Well looks like Riot has a hell of a lot of work to do. Hope it all works out in the end because nothing can be as bad as the 
rework.
BeatzBoyFTW3 votesI was expecting a lengthy & clear explanation after having a deep understanding of why Riot reworks them. Turns out this thread is just lazy af. The "since I hear they're shit, I will assume they're shit too" strat.
Jubilee Phoenix1 votesFinally someone calls me out. Thank you. You're right I should try harder.
CrazFight 2 votesYou mean the champions aren't perfect , even tho they were just released on the PBE for testing... BY MY BEARD D:
Jubilee Phoenix1 votesYup, when everyone talks about the reworks Riot fixes them right up. They always make them great.
yup always fixes them.
Mordepool1 votes[{quoted}](name=Jubilee Phoenix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y0OnnlAf,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-04-20T02:17:08.374+0000)
Yup, when everyone talks about the reworks Riot fixes them right up. They always make them great.
To be fair. Mordekaisers Balance team Rework was alot better than the CertainlyT Mess
Very Hard Engage1 votes
dont talk to me about awful reworks. literally have taken 2 mid laners away from me.
destroyed AP zyra and AP kog builds.
Yaśuo Main1 votesVeigar was slightly justified taking his old ULT into account
Very Hard Engage1 voteswrong.
it was a shorter range, longer cooldown, and higher mana cost.
in other words, it was extremely easy to hit him first as he greatly exposed himself to everything for attempting to use it in the first place. it made a very volatile matchup and it demanded a very high amount of skill to excel on the champion.
if veigar won he earned it.
dont forget 47% win rate for forever.
only reason it was changed was because he was being seen as support for shutting down their new hyper mobile champion kalista. "he needed DFG compensation 6mo after it happened" BULL
Mecha MaIphite1 votes
still waiting zzz
Jubilee Phoenix1 votesMaybe next year.
OverpoweredSoap1 votes just needs his W and R not to move at the pace of a snail glued to the sidewalk and he won't be as bad as he is on the PBE right now.
Most of the changes made to them were not to make them stronger immediately but to make them easier to balance in the long run.
Both and had the problem of their ult taking like 85% of their power budget, now they can be balanced around the rest of their kit too.
I'm not saying I like the reworks, but they seem easier to balance compared to a ranged AoE stun and a Team Wide Damage mitigation ult which was either too strong or too weak depending on the numbers.
As for , yeah I'll agree with you there, I don't think he needed a rework he seemed fine to me.
The Whamboozler1 votesBoth
WHY do people always insist this is a problem?! So they had a really strong ult. People liked playing them with those ults and those supposedly "sub-par" other skills. Some champs have strong ults. Some have strong Q's. Some have no ult at all. Variety is GOOD. Now we've got two champs that aren't really all that good at anything. Neither of them was in need of reworks... neither of them was stomping games or losing so hard that it was a problem... but nah. Let's change how they play entirely for no real reason, just to drive off the few fans who were still loyal to the champs. I am absolutely certain that new sej especially is going to be a garbage fire and she's been one of my fav junglers for a long time. They managed to make all her skins look like complete garbage too. It's like they're TRYING to shit on my love of this game in every way they can.
Fuck you Riot.