Is it just me, or does Ashe feel low damage?

Mira Arya Enthe·Feb 5, 2017·9 votes·5,544 views

I mean. We won our last game. I got up to 4 damage items before the match ended. And yet my attacks still seemed to just bounce off of an underfed Victor, Warwick(despite mortal reminder), Quinn and Draven.

Am I missing something? I am not saying "hur dur I did everything perfect."

I mean legit, look at the match and help me to understand why I did no damage(Other than boots. that was... an experiment.)

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2416927922/34383894

It isn't just this match either. It has just been every time I play Ashe recently. I feel like I have 0 damage on top of her being so damn slow.

50 Comments

Sp33d Zer0Feb 5, 20176 votes

You went the wrong triple crit. You want IE, runaans OR phantom Dancer, and you want phantom dancer OR essence reaver.

Source: Ashe main https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Sp33d%20Zer0

Edit: While build order may change, your build on ashe will usually be around the same. Unfortunately, I have found you cannot build a defensive item like GA as you will not have the damage you need....

"You are the damage carry" build: item 1038 -> item 3085 / item 3046 -> item 3031 -> / item 3094 -> item 3035 (if 2+ armor item tanks are a threat, otherwise save for last) -> item 3072 / item 3156 / item 3139 .

This build will set you up to put out the most amount of damage. The real difference in this build is you either get a item 3085 if you feel you can kite most the enemy team easy, and there is a few melee you can likely cleave onto, or a item 3046 if their is 1 front line diver, or if there is a lot of duelists you need to deal with as your first item. Your second is either for the same reason, or item 3094 if you need to extra range to poke, siege, or out range to start a decent fight with squishies.

item 3072 item 3156 item 3139 are the only defensive options you really get as Ashe unless you are against a team that does not have a single tank or tanky person on it. is the standard, I personally like against super bursty ap teams where the shield to save you is more important than the extra healing and possible shield from item 3072 , and item 3139 is for teams that will lock you down.

I like this build for being able to put the team on my back and make it clear that I AM the carry and that I can win this if they work around me.

"You are one of many damage sources on your team" build: item 1036 + 3 item 2003 -> item 1038 -> item 3508 -> item 3085 / item 3046 -> item 3031 -> item 3035 (if 2+ armor item tanks are a threat, otherwise save for last) -> item 3072 / item 3156 / item 3139 .

This build is going to allow you to make some poke, as well as have your ult more regularly. I personally use this build anytime I have 3+ teammates on my team that are damage oriented. This build doesn't put out the same raw damage, but it emphasizes Ashe's supporty ADC nature. You still put out about 80% of the damage you would with the "You are the damage" build, so you are still a threat; but because you have other teammates that can help supply that damage, and no front line, you will want your w up more to pick, peel (yes, you can peel for your other carries), and kite.

I really like this build for being able to learn how to be carried (which is a very good skill to have) and play off of your strong teammates while instead being a shot caller and better engage tool for you team.

Ultimately the one you will use for a game depends on you and the team you have. The rune page is still the same, going 18/12/0 picking up Feast if you are a bad laner, or the poke one, and then you always take battle trance. You are an auto attack based damage source, you will be in combat for more than 5 seconds. Finally, always warlord's bloodlust. There is no other option.

If you would like to talk more about Ashe, such as runes, exact masteries I run, or even tips, please feel free to add me. More than happy to coach you.

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

I really appreciate it. I love Ashe but dunno how to use her. I play her generally good but always feel low damage late game. Your post was extremely insightful and I truly appreciate it. I will add you 100%.

SephyriasMar 2, 20171 votes

By the way, wouldn't item 2033 / item 2032 work as well in place of Essence Reaver? Then you don't really need to worry that much about mana or sustain anymore.

However it doesn't seem like item 3031 is that much better than item 3508 on Ashe damage wise, so maybe the potion would just be a waste of gold.

Sp33d Zer0Mar 3, 20171 votes

I mean, you COULD do that, but I personally NEVER would. I take a refillable potion and hold onto it, because the extra 350g for a corrupting potion is far from worth it, and the jungler potion is really, REALLY bad for laners.

As for IE, her passive crit scaling scales with crit chance, and the IE crit modifier, so it actually double dips (closer to triple dips).

After testing the damage out, I found that item 3508 , item 3085 / item 3046 , item 3031 was more damage than the double attack speed build, however the double attack speed build is better for kiting, and only very marginally less damage (about 40-80 damage over 15 seconds)

EDIT: Right now my starting build is always Long sword + refillable and 18/0/12 masteries, taking fervor. I will usually get a BF sword on my first back which typically turns into essence reaver, but if i need to back early, I will take a vampiric scepter, and sit on it for about 30 minutes.

SephyriasMar 3, 20171 votes

but if i need to back early, I will take a vampiric scepter, and sit on it for about 30 minutes.

And then either item 3072 or item 3139 depending on the situation I guess.

I also thought about evolving it into item 3153 and not buy a second crit-attackspeed item. That would be more slot efficient, but haven't tested it yet.

Sp33d Zer0Mar 3, 20171 votes

I have found BotRK to be a dps loss unless you are against a LOT of super tanks, and maybe 1 carry (Think Nautilus top, Cho Mid, Zac jungle, Braum support)

Because ashe's Q has a 1.4 AD scaling, the extra AD from BT is better than than the % current health damage from blade of the ruined king. This MIGHT be different with the two buffs that BotRK got to AD and current % health damage, but I find it unlikely, especially when you add on BT having more life steal, and Merc being required against certain comps.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20174 votes

yet there is one person who post on the balance of ashe and argued she was broken and over powered

he lost that argument really quickly .... i made sure of it...

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

Well, I am not saying Ashe is 'weak'. I am saying I feel like I do less damage in the past 2 weeks on her than my entire time playing League.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20171 votes

well i tend to run a slight variation of masteries and runes on her then most...

she is good at extended fights due to her slow and her Q so the mastery Batter Trance works well on her and taking 5 points in vamprisim for lifesteal and then taking warlords blood lust... i go 18-0-12 a and take runic armor to increase the life steal for extended trades and having lower cd on summoners

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

Oh! I like that. Say, what would you suggest for items?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20171 votes

for runes i run 9 ad reds , 9 armor 3 as quints 3 attack speed blues and 6 flat mr blues

giving +9 ad +15% attack speed + 9 armor +8 mr

SaltyKrackaFeb 5, 20174 votes

IE is very important to Ashe's damage scaling.

Also, most of her damage comes from repeated use of Q in teamfights, which doesn't get to happen a lot in the lower elos because lol what's peeling.

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

This is true. Sadly our Aurelion Sol did more peeling than anybody else on my team lol.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20172 votes

i agree with small abraham .. she is in bad need of IE i prefer it over ER in nearly all situations

IE , BT should be core on her

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

Possibly. I never used IE since the Reaver rework. But I could try it.

SaltyKrackaFeb 5, 20171 votes

She only needs one Aspd/crit item, and that's Hurricane. Skip PD on her, she's not Vayne or Yasuo.

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

Gotcha! My bad. I was trying to stack her Q faster. What items would you suggest?

SaltyKrackaFeb 5, 20171 votes

IIRC the standard build is ER->Zerks->Hurricane->IE.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20173 votes

they give the most raw ad damage combined ,

if you like ER you can get it with IE but then you lose out on a spot for BT or another attack speed item

the highest win % build is item 3508 item 3031 item 3085 item 3036 item 3006 item 3026

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

Thank you! I will try this my next game.

Personal question from one meta bender to another. How do you feel about swifties on her? XD

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20171 votes

egh... she needs the attack speed boost too much to pass on these item 3006

but if you want an alternate build

you can go item 3031 item 3072 item 3085 item 3071 (passive on bc for movement speed on hit... the passive for armor pen stacks fast with Q

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

Sounds sexy. I hate moving slow. Believe it or not I use to play Ashe more than Shyvana. But eventually got tired of dragging my ashe around the rift slowly and switched to Shyvana. Also play Teemo, Riven and Quinn. Because fast.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20171 votes

fyi i frustrated a teemo top lane last game as maokai and won lane lol

i have also used item 3153 on her to combine it with her Q and item 3085 vs heavy hp team comps

Big LincolnFeb 5, 20171 votes

what did you call me

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20171 votes

lol do you not like it?

BIG LINCOLN

SMALL ABRAHAM lol

get it ? its a play on your name

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Big LincolnFeb 5, 20171 votes

not even the right lincoln smh

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20171 votes

ITS THE MOST FAMOUS LINCOLN

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Covert Ops GnarFeb 5, 20172 votes

You don't pick Ashe with a team of divers/assassins. You pick Ashe with a team that benefit from extended fights, like Darius and Swain. Your job is to be sustained damage, and keep the enemy stuck to another sustained damage dealer. Not instagib people.

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

My team had Swain, Bard, Aurelion and Xin

Covert Ops GnarFeb 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwqHqTE9,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-02-05T06:29:11.851+0000)

My team had Swain, Bard, Aurelion and Xin

Your main job as ashe is to perm slow people

your second job is to do damage

that is all

also no immanent melee threat. enemy team has free engages

LankPantsFeb 5, 20171 votes

You don't pick Ashe with a team of divers/assassins.

Actually that's not necessarily true. Ashe can work well on a dive heavy team because she can single out a target for them to kill with her Arrow and dive heavy teams have a tenancy to draw some aggro off of her anyway. When you have an Irelia, Lee and Kat on your team they can't afford to simply ignore those champs to try and dive onto you, if you also have a support like Janna or Zyra who can peel a little diving onto you is generally the worst option. This allows you to lay DPS and disruption into the tankier members of the enemy team while your team dives the target you hopefully landed an Arrow onto.

Big LincolnFeb 5, 20171 votes

Ashe is a low damage marksman and rightfully so

also not having IE lowers your overall DPS, if i remember right

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

I know. I main Ashe as my ADC. That said I have never(even on old Ashe) felt this low damage as I have recently.

IE hasn't been my standard since the new Essence Reaver.

Big LincolnFeb 5, 20171 votes

i wonder how good lethality would actually be on her

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20171 votes

be a good test to run ...

but she still needs the IE badly ...

Big LincolnFeb 5, 20171 votes

tru

trying to come up with something, since atk speed is still important on her, at least 1 item + zerker boots.

item 3142 item 3814 item 3031 item 3153 item 3006 item 3036 ? maybe

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20171 votes

ok but heres a question ... since item 3085 applies on hit wouldnt it apply lethality ?

Big LincolnFeb 5, 20171 votes

i think it would because lethality applies to all phys damage

so any on-hit effect that isn't magic damage

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20171 votes

so item 3085 item 3031 item 3142 item 3814 item 3072 item 3006

LankPantsFeb 5, 20171 votes

Bad.

Unlike other ADCs Ashe's damage is almost entirely on auto attacks and unlike Draven her auto attacks scale entirely with crit. When you Q your AAs deal 125% damage, this number is then multiplied by your crit multiplier, for example if you do a 50% crit build with IE you deal 185% due to your passive, so the total is 231.25% of your AD on crit. Basically what this means is Ashe's Q multiplies the value of any crit you buy by 125%, so crit is disproportionately powerful on her compared to most ADCs.

The only physical damage Ashe has that doesn't scale up with crit is Volley. That's the only ability on her entire kit which would benefit more from Lethality than crit, and that's just not going to do more damage than a crit Ashe's AAs.

MatakeFeb 5, 20171 votes

She's a support ADC. As in you need to avoid 1v1 without your team. You pop your ult off for utility and to create an opening. Ashe benefits from constant attacking to maximize her use of Q. She's very nice.

Mira Arya EntheFeb 5, 20171 votes

I know. I main Ashe as my ADC. That said I have never(even on old Ashe) felt this low damage as I have recently.

fuffychanFeb 5, 20171 votes

All ADCs are low damage unless you have 3 or 4 items ahead of your opponents. Any bruiser buys item 3071 and tank items and does more damage then any ADC yet theyll still complain if any ADC "abuses their item "

HigeFeb 5, 20171 votes

Ashe only needs 3 items to start decimating almost everything when your Q is on

item 3031 item 3085 item 3072

Essence reaver might help you with the cdr and stuff but getting it prevents you from getting infinity edge and the increased damage from crits is glorious considering that Ashe technically has 100% crit chance all the time (as long as people is tagged with one auto or volley or even ECA)

Hurricane is bonkers if you're surrounded by enemy minions, even with just warlords you'll be lifestealing like crazy from that crazy machine gun, also, Bloodthirster creeps its way up there exactly because the amount of lifesteal she puts out when in Q is out of this world, plus it's the item with the biggest amount of AD so you increase your damage across the board

Supreme Senpai69Feb 5, 20171 votes

Think it's just you. Ashe does lots of damage when I face her. I don't play her though

IA9hRfpP5qFeb 5, 20171 votes

i main ana

dark100dark100Feb 5, 20171 votes

All ADCs are weak because of assassin meta. All of them are 1 hit for kha'zix.

LankPantsFeb 5, 20171 votes

No Infinity Edge, you're not going to do damage with a no IE build. With the amount of crit you had in your build IE over ER would have boosted your DPS by 40%, which is a huge amount.

IMO CDR isn't the most important stat in solo queue, it's great at higher levels because more arrows but it's just not high damage which is needed in solo queue.

Better to go IE>Hurricane rather than ER>Hurricane IMO.

CatastropFeb 5, 20171 votes

This is how it should be in my opinion. Ashe is one of the few champions who actually trades DPS for her utility, if anything, other utility champions need to be tuned like her as well.

Although I will say, the lack of IE is probably a big reason why you felt you were hitting like a noodle. It's essential for a lategame ADC's damage, as much as Deathcap/BC is for mages/bruisers.

PermabannedGarenFeb 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwqHqTE9,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-05T05:02:58.943+0000)

I mean. We won our last game. I got up to 4 damage items before the match ended. And yet my attacks still seemed to just bounce off of an underfed Victor, Warwick(despite mortal reminder), Quinn and Draven.

Am I missing something? I am not saying "hur dur I did everything perfect."

I mean legit, look at the match and help me to understand why I did no damage(Other than boots. that was... an experiment.)

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2416927922/34383894

It isn't just this match either. It has just been every time I play Ashe recently. I feel like I have 0 damage on top of her being so damn slow.

Drop the PD for an IE.