Why pyke R can bypass shield?

Killer of Night9·Nov 18, 2018·10 votes·4,618 views

Don't take this post as nerf him plz he's too op. I just wanted to know why he's allowed to do that. I mean i can play soraka and heal the adc enough to save him but i can't do with a shield. I know that sometime shield are toxic but a well used shield should constrast a high reward AOE ult like that no? His ult deal already a tons of dmg early, it's high enough to match a shield (thank to the base damage buff from 200 to 250 of an old patch). Why do you think he is able to do that?

56 Comments

Icy Hot ShotoNov 18, 20184 votes

Because reworking Irelia into ignoring shields and nerfing shields wasn't enough.

Killer of Night9Nov 18, 20182 votes

after the irelia rework i tough that riot really hate enchanter. Just watching this Irelia Aatrox Pyke having an antishield mechanix. But at least Aatrox ( Urgot him too because his ult work similar to pyke) work only vs one target at time Irelia is in the middle of this. Pyke can affect literally multiple target at the same time.

VexLunaDec 6, 20181 votes

Tbf, this is a reason for Riot to rebuff shields, if they are to introduce more shield debuffing/ignoring champs. It's the healthiest way to do it, since ardent meta was FAR beyond the cancer of the metas where these 3 champs have been strong (technically pyke hasn't even had a meta) So i believe if Riot were to create just ONE MORE shield defying champion, perhaps an anti-shield mage for mid/supp then ardent supports can be rebuffed a bunch.

Slythrin UmbreonNov 19, 20184 votes

Pyke was being desgined during a time period where shielding was overtoned, so they probably just added it to his kit as a morale booster. Now that that's over, it may honestly be a good idea to remove it. He may be easier to balance without it/with something else that isn't so specific or so "This specific class of champions doesn't get to play back against this."

VexLunaDec 6, 20181 votes

Nah, at this point Riot should rebuff ardent supports, and perhaps create an anti-shield mage for mid and/or support (perhaps they could do additional damage to shields, and for the damage their do to shields gain a resource bar for another mechanic/ability, HELL they could rework Ryze again, and shield damage could be how he charges runes LOL). Also the way Pyke's R is proposed to work is to execute past a certain health threshhold, therefore shields were never really proposed as to ever have any kind of influence - similar to Urgot, if the ability is treated as a flat execute, then shields were never intended to do anything about them, since they do no affect the state of your actual health bar, they are just a chunk of "extra health" pasted over the top, they themselves do not affect the state of your health.

IllabetheNov 19, 20183 votes

All "Executes" bypass shields when performing their roles. Executes are instant deaths or damage enhancements that occur when a target is within the condition of HP levels.

Urgot's R ignores shields. Pyke's R ignores shields.

Evelynn's R ignores shields (when calculating whether it's going to do double damage or not....... which when you have a 1300 damage ult...... might as well be an execute, and because the feature acts like one, it's technically called one)

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20181 votes

Garen and Darius’s don’t

BeatzBoyFTWNov 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-11-19T13:48:26.942+0000)

Garen and Darius’s don’t

Both aren't executes. They just do a fuckton of damage.

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Both aren't executes. They just do a fuckton of damage.

I thought bother were missing HP executes. Or maybe the “old” version of what was considered an execute

BeatzBoyFTWNov 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-19T14:11:01.033+0000)

I thought bother were missing HP executes. Or maybe the “old” version of what was considered an execute

Garen's ult damage scales with missing %HP, but nothing about executing anyone that falls below the minimum HP threshold. Which means his ult is still blockable by Shields & instant Heal chunks.

Dariu's ult never scaled with HP. He just do a lot of damage with it. It does deal True Damage, but is still blockable by Shields and instant Healing chunks.

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

All "Executes" bypass shields when performing their roles. Executes are instant deaths or damage enhancements that occur when a target is within the condition of HP levels.

Urgot's R ignores shields. Pyke's R ignores shields.

Evelynn's R ignores shields (when calculating whether it's going to do double damage or not....... which when you have a 1300 damage ult...... might as well be an execute, and because the feature acts like one, it's technically called one)

Urgot Ultimate does not ignore shields before the reel-in animation starts

IllabetheNov 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2018-11-19T18:21:13.395+0000)

Urgot Ultimate does not ignore shields before the reel-in animation starts

Yes it does......

The target will die regardless of their current health once the second cast's chains hit, even if they are healed by Wish (which can affect untargetable allies) ** or have a shield that persists the duration of the channel that places them above the health threshold.**

It's even in the official Wiki.

Horse GrenadesNov 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes it does......

The target will die regardless of their current health once the second cast's chains hit, even if they are healed by Wish (which can affect untargetable allies) ** or have a shield that persists the duration of the channel that places them above the health threshold.**

It's even in the official Wiki.

That’s what I said, when the reel–in animation begin it ignores sheilds before then it doesn’t. It makes no sense that the Pyke ultimate ignores sheilds~~~~ before it even hits

IllabetheNov 21, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=0007000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-20T14:01:11.936+0000)

That’s what I said, when the reel–in animation begin it ignores sheilds before then it doesn’t. It makes no sense that the Pyke ultimate ignores sheilds~~~~ before it even hits

Post a video of a shield mitigating Urgot's R. I want to see it.

Horse GrenadesNov 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Post a video of a shield mitigating Urgot's R. I want to see it.

Once, the ult hits, the sheildnwill prevent the target from dropping below the execute hp.

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20182 votes

Yep. It’s bullshit

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20181 votes

Lol downvoted with no rebuttal... classic

ResterNov 18, 20181 votes

If the ult is within execution range it deals true damage, not physical damage. So the damage cannot be reduced by any means.

Icy Hot ShotoNov 18, 20188 votes

That makes no sense. Ignite does true damage, but ANY health shield can block the ignite damage. So true damage can be 'reduced'.

ResterNov 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ranmaru Kurosaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-11-18T21:53:27.142+0000)

That makes no sense. Ignite does true damage, but ANY health shield can block the ignite damage. So true damage can be 'reduced'.

It makes no sense but if you check Pyke's wiki it becomes sense. Ignite can be reduced since it's kind of a dot but Pyke's is just a flat out execute. If you manage to gain health before the ult hits you then it just becomes physical damage and won't outright kill you. It's hard to explain, the ult extended info in the wiki has a lot more of the detailed info regarding it.

Icy Hot ShotoNov 18, 20185 votes

Even then, it still makes no sense. Health shields literally block damage of any kind. DoT. Flat. Doesn't matter, it blocks it. Because it's considered extra health. If the shield puts you over the execute rating, it shouldn't be counted as an execute, because it's extra health you're getting, even if just for a short time.

ResterNov 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ranmaru Kurosaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-18T22:02:36.369+0000)

Even then, it still makes no sense. Health shields literally block damage of any kind. DoT. Flat. Doesn't matter, it blocks it. Because it's considered extra health. If the shield puts you over the execute rating, it shouldn't be counted as an execute, because it's extra health you're getting, even if just for a short time.

Yeah I dont really know how to explain it. I would just refer you to this. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Pyke

Tahminatrix Nov 19, 20182 votes

You don't know how to explain it but we already know what it is, his ult does not technically do true damage, its an execute mechanic that ignores shields which shows up as true damage.

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ranmaru Kurosaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-18T22:02:36.369+0000)

Even then, it still makes no sense. Health shields literally block damage of any kind. DoT. Flat. Doesn't matter, it blocks it. Because it's considered extra health. If the shield puts you over the execute rating, it shouldn't be counted as an execute, because it's extra health you're getting, even if just for a short time.

https://youtu.be/gaylOX0SNWQ

Tahminatrix Nov 19, 20184 votes

shield a Chogath ult then talk to me, the shield will absorb it -.-

VexLunaDec 6, 20181 votes

Cho R isn't an execute, it is a single target chunk of true damage scaling off your hp. Pyke is a flat execute that doesn't technically do damage, but the health "removed" by pyke's execute shows up as true damage.

Tahminatrix Dec 7, 20181 votes

Thanks for clarifying what I said 18 days after I said it.

Everyone already knows it, that's my point, true damage does not mean counters shields.

T2K BakaNov 21, 20181 votes

its like urgot ult. Executes do something like 100000000 true damage or something so that they kill instantly. Something on the wiki i read about this.

VexLunaDec 6, 20181 votes

I'm 90% sure that when Pyke Rs you, it shows up on screen as 9999 true damage, so for the purpose of not taking up the whole screen with numbers, it probably does do like 100000000 true damage lol.

MakarakarnNov 18, 20181 votes

I think it was because at some point in time (I don't remember when this was, but I remember it happening) shields were really toxic and hated. So I guess Riot decided to make a bunch of anti shield mechanics to balance them out, since they technically have no way to be directly countered. At least you can give someone grievious wounds to slow healing, but there is no mechanic to reduce or completely break shields, which is why I imagine they make champs with anti-shield abilities.

Tahminatrix Nov 19, 20182 votes

Waiting it out or disengaging? Health is permanent shields are temporary. The anti shield mechanic is the shields having a timer.

Shields are countered by mobility, low/non damage cc (so you can wait it out) and targeting someone else instead. (aoe shields tend to last the shortest amount of time / constantly drain themselves)

MakarakarnNov 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-11-19T01:33:40.461+0000)

Waiting it out or disengaging? Health is permanent shields are temporary. The anti shield mechanic is the shields having a timer.

Shields are countered by mobility, low/non damage cc (so you can wait it out) and targeting someone else instead. (aoe shields tend to last the shortest amount of time / constantly drain themselves)

No. That is definitely a strategy to counter them, but it doesn't directly stop a shield. Tell me, do you like when a zilean ults and you basically either have to decide between trying to blow your load on him and kill him and hope you have the damage and cooldowns to kill him again when he revives, or not doing shit to him for 10 years because he will revive. A shield is basically the same thing lmao. You either try your absolute hardest to burst it down, or try to wait for it to go away. Both of these can potentially be extremely bad depending on the scenario. And again, at least healing actually has a built in mechanic that slows it down (grievious wounds, redemption burnout, heal burnout)

VexLunaDec 6, 20181 votes

the problem is, for the purpose of solo queue, Riot would just create an item, however they would make shields impossible to balance in competitive around this item. So the best option was to make a few champs made to counter shields somewhat, as in the competitive scene they are widely used to counterpicking champs. However it then remains a problem in solo queue for shields to be somewhat good, because theres no way for a generic champion to play around it and league is a game about playing around the things that are problematic, from the order you decide to do things, to the items your build. So shields in a sense are the most impossible feature to balance in the entire game. - Which is why shield bash is in the game, shields can be shit, but provide you with something more balance able. - extra stats, extra damage.

MüffîñNov 19, 20181 votes

i feel like riot should give true true damage damage a different name, like pure damage for example. the only known cases of it that im aware of are pyke ult, urgot ult, and fountain laser.

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20181 votes

Like right here.. I bait out Pykes ult and make a nice play as Shen. But I get punished for it.

https://youtu.be/gaylOX0SNWQ

BeatzBoyFTWNov 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-11-19T13:54:26.482+0000)

Like right here.. I bait out Pykes ult and make a nice play as Shen. But I get punished for it.

https://youtu.be/gaylOX0SNWQ

I don't know if Spectator Mode is suppose to show the Execution Color Icon on the player's HP bar, but if it does in-game, then Ashe must've been in execution HP-range & Pyke's ult is suppose to ignore the shield.

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I don't know if Spectator Mode is suppose to show the Execution Color Icon on the player's HP bar, but if it does in-game, then Ashe must've been in execution HP-range & Pyke's ult is suppose to ignore the shield. She definitely did, but I should be rewarded for timing my ult and getting maximum sheild amount. If that’s the case then don’t have Shens ult increase based on missing HP and then punish me for timing it well.

BeatzBoyFTWNov 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2018-11-19T14:04:12.650+0000)

She definitely did, but I should be rewarded for timing my ult and getting maximum sheild amount. If that’s the case then don’t have Shens ult increase based on missing HP and then punish me for timing it well.

All this just because of 1 Support champion whose kit does what it's suppose to do? A pretty ridiculous reasoning if you ask me. You probably should've ulted a lot earlier before Ashe hits the execution indicating HP.

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

All this just because of 1 Support champion whose kit does what it's suppose to do? A pretty ridiculous reasoning if you ask me. You probably should've ulted a lot earlier before Ashe hits the execution indicating HP.

So I should not play my champ as intended and get maximum results from my abilities because Riot likes to circle jerk true damage and executes? It’s just another example of rewarding the wrong kind of play. In this scenario I’m punished for using shens ult to bait out a key ability.

BeatzBoyFTWNov 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=000b0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-19T14:13:36.498+0000)

So I should not play my champ as intended and get maximum results from my abilities because Riot likes to circle jerk true damage and executes? It’s just another example of rewarding the wrong kind of play. In this scenario I’m punished for using shens ult to bait out a key ability.

Again, you should've ulted her before she hits the HP execution threshold. You could've prevented anymore incoming damage & Pyke will be forced to use his ult as a secondary damaging ability, thus still wasting his ult usage.

Second, you're complaining just because 1 Support manages to counter your ult. If it were Draft Pick, you could've probably pick another top laner to counteract against Pyke.

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Again, you should've ulted her before she hits the HP execution threshold. You could've prevented anymore incoming damage & Pyke will be forced to use his ult as a secondary damaging ability, thus still wasting his ult usage.

Second, you're complaining just because 1 Support manages to counter your ult. If it were Draft Pick, you could've probably pick another top laner to counteract against Pyke.

Again, I should be rewarded for blocking a big ability with my ult not punished because of some bullshit mechanic. The whole point of Shen ultimate is to reduce damage and block major abilities before he comes in and turns the fight. You have no argument other than don’t block the ultimate. That’s a non-point. If I use my ultimate any earlier he would’ve died before I got there because of how small the shield would’ve been. Once again, I timed it perfectly and was punished for it. He was rewarded by a shitty mechanic.Shen ultimate is already in a bad spot because of all the Extreme damage in the game now. It’s one more unnecessary nerf to tank gameplay.

BeatzBoyFTWNov 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHi8iZj,comment-id=000b000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-19T18:20:28.975+0000)

Again, I should be rewarded for blocking a big ability with my ult not punished because of some bullshit mechanic. The whole point of Shen ultimate is to reduce damage and block major abilities before he comes in and turns the fight. You have no argument other than don’t block the ultimate. That’s a non-point. If I use my ultimate any earlier he would’ve died before I got there because of how small the shield would’ve been. Once again, I timed it perfectly and was punished for it. He was rewarded by a shitty mechanic.Shen ultimate is already in a bad spot because of all the Extreme damage in the game now. It’s one more unnecessary nerf to tank gameplay.

A bullshit mechanic that only 2 out of 141 champions utilizes. Take a moment & read this to yourself. There's really no point in repeating myself the same points to you since my words will just go in from one of your ear & out from the other.

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

A bullshit mechanic that only 2 out of 141 champions utilizes. Take a moment & read this to yourself. There's really no point in repeating myself the same points to you since my words will just go in from one of your ear & out from the other.

What does it matter if it's just one or two champions? Bullshit is bullshit. Maybe you should make an argument so that I can listen to it?

You bitch and moan about tank top viktor when he's just 1/141 champs. It doesn't matter how many champs have bullshit mechanics, it doesn't make it right to have bullshit mechanics.

BeatzBoyFTWNov 19, 20181 votes

What does it matter if it's just one or two champions? Bullshit is bullshit. Maybe you should make an argument so that I can listen to it?

Simple. You got counterpicked. And you have absolutely no clue on how Execute works at all. Not due to logic, but due to your stubbornness.

You bitch and moan about tank top viktor when he's just 1/141 champs. It doesn't matter how many champs have bullshit mechanics, it doesn't make it right to have bullshit mechanics.

Cz my case is widely complained by many others & even Riot agrees with this and thus nerfed him. Yours on the other hand is just an immature tantrum since it didn't happened the way you wanted.

Horse GrenadesNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Simple. You got counterpicked. And you have absolutely no clue on how Execute works at all. Not due to logic, but due to your stubbornness.

Cz my case is widely complained by many others & even Riot agrees with this and thus nerfed him. Yours on the other hand is just an immature tantrum since it didn't happened the way you wanted.

Viktor is just a "counterpick." (albeit a bullshit counterpick because of a toxic kit towards top laners)
I UNDERSTAND how an execute works, I disagree with it rewarding the wrong kind of gameplay, and celebrating bullshit mechanics.
Why are you so hostile? It's not a tantrum, and I feel like you being so condescending is the only "immature" part of this thread. It's my opinion, on what I feel is a legitimate problem with the game, you clearly don't agree, but I don't really see any substance to your argument. It seems like it's just, "because thats the way it is"

IllabetheNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

A bullshit mechanic that only 2 out of 141 champions utilizes. Take a moment & read this to yourself. There's really no point in repeating myself the same points to you since my words will just go in from one of your ear & out from the other.

Technically Evelynn utilizes it too, but that's not a sure fire (just an insane amount of damage that more or less is one)

And there are tons of champions who do massively enhanced damage based upon the % missing health of their opponents.

Elise, Nidalee..... BOTH have common skills that are technically executes.

A few Patches ago, Lee Sin joined them with his Q rework, which now dramatically does more damage based on Missing HP.

And none of the three I mentioned are really mitigatable champs if their target is below 25% HP. You will die to all of them if you are that low, because that's how much their damage scales.

KaiokoNov 19, 20181 votes

Shields =/= health. Pyke executes champs below a certain health points depending on his AD and the level of utlimate. Reading these comments I'm confused as to why this is such a big point of confusion.

It doesn't matter whether the ability is true, physical or magical damage. Point of the matter is, if the champion Pyke hits is below a certain amount of health -- they DIE end of story.

5050BSNov 21, 20181 votes

Its the same as Urgot Ult. Shields mean nothing if you are under 25% hps

VexLunaDec 6, 20181 votes

Because Pyke's R is a flat execute, although it deals true damage, that is to ensure that no matter what, no bugs can prevent the R from executing once in health threshhold. shields do not increase your actual health, and therefore do not affect the health threshhold required for Pyke's R to execute. So something to note about his R, is to think of it as - It does not do damage once within the health threshold, if the R hits you whilst within the threshhold, it does no damage, it just kills you, ignoring resistances or shields. If however your health is outside of Pyke's R threshold, it is treated as physical damage, and resistances + shields will have an influence, ONLY if your health is above the threshold.