Does anyone like spellbinder?

Killer of Night9··27 votes·15,442 views

I barely build this item item 3907 on any champs. What make me thinking about it is the duration (4s). Everytime I activeted it I barely have the time to use only one spell rotation (since spell are gated to CD). Comparing it to gargoyle stoneplate and essence reaver (time duration gate effect) gargoyle last for 4 second but even if you have all on CD u still be tanky and Essence reaver rely on Aa which are only gated by attackspeed and last 6s after using one auto. I think that since is CD gated (with the few exception of ap Aa dmg dealer like teemo or kaisa), the duration should be up and the ap gain should be low. Tough?

67 Comments

Illabethe11 votes

I think about buying it because it is a move speed item with 10% Move speed..... but I generally just defer to item 2065 item 3100 item 3905 because they have CDR, AP, Move speed, Activateables that are useful, and are generally CHEAPER.

Spellbinder was supposed to be a part of DFT coming back to the game, but it just doesn't give all that much utility unless you're trying to max AP, which means you probably aren't in ranked.

There's a reason even item 3089 gets little play now. item 3151 item 3100 item 3285 item 3165 item 3003 item 3102 item 3157 item 3135 are all just far more useful.

EuphoricToaster11 votes

There's a reason even item 3089 gets little play now. item 3151 item 3100 item 3285 item 3165 item 3003 item 3102 item 3157 item 3135 are all just far more useful.

What? Rabadons is mandatory on basically all AP carries and is often bough fairly early, especially in soloq and especially if snowballing. Seraphs, lich bane and liandry are extremely situational/champion dependant items.

Illabethe5 votes

Show me a champ that actually mandatories it early, especially when gold incomes are low because kill trades are low.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/item/3089/

Although some champs get to 37% pick rate, it's almost universally less than 25% pick rate, and across the board, the average purchase time is around 29-30 minutes.

When you DO get it, you win. But it's almost never an early game item, the pick rate is low because of it, and games usually end before it's bought.

EuphoricToaster5 votes

{quoted}

Show me a champ that actually mandatories it early, especially when gold incomes are low because kill trades are low.

I never said it was mandatory early, i said it was mandatory and CAN be gotten early, its not a purely late game item like it used to be. Its not uncommon to see it in competitive for example bought fairly early (say, third item), like Sorcs+ludens>morello>dcap. WIth how much raw ap runes gives now its better than ever. Lich/liandry/seraphs is not a better item as they are only bought by a very small amount of the champions compared to dcap.

Illabethe3 votes

3rd item is 29 minutes. Second item is 22 minutes. It's never in game early enough to actually call it mandatory. Most games are decided by the time of purchase.

15 minutes is where games are decided and 22 minutes is where games are stalled out and made into 40-50 minute games. Death cap is a stall out item. It turns around losing games. That's its job. But if you're winning mechanically, teams almost never get to buying it.

I think your perception is because your games tend to go long, and you generally play different mages than I do. I mean.... you main Heimerdinger.

I play Ahri Zyra Karma Morgana who generally lean toward item 3151 or Mobility builds.

EuphoricToaster6 votes

Death cap is a stall out item. It turns around losing games. That's its job. But if you're winning mechanically, teams almost never get to buying it.

Death cap is literally the opposite of a stall item, its an item to buy when even or ahead because of the high upfront cost of large rods. If youre winning, you have gold, so you buy the items that give you the most damage to snowball that lead even further, which for the majority of champions is deathcap.

SugeMinPikk11 votes

Early? Nobody buys it early. It's a midgame/lategame item. I thought the nature of the passive made that fairly obvious. It's a third or fourth buy. It's always been that way, unless you're smurfing and get max mejai's stacks.

Illabethe5 votes

read whole posts/conversations.

SugeMinPikk7 votes

It's always been a third or fourth buy unless you're massively ahead. Always. It hasn't "recently lost mandatory status"

Xilixer3 votes

the problem is that due to how fast games go nowadays by the time you reach a point where you would buy it the game is already ending.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

Early? Nobody buys it early. It's a midgame/lategame item. I thought the nature of the passive made that fairly obvious. It's a third or fourth buy. It's always been that way, unless you're smurfing and get max mejai's stacks.

There has been a time that Rabadon was literally purchased as your second item after you purchased a mana/mana regen item. This was because it was cheaper and had a better build path. Also, AP itemization was terrible back then; there were few AP items with CDR, and most of them didn't had the same utility that they have nowadays. It was better to just buy as much AP as possible.

Incredibly Lucid1 votes

It's pretty good on vlad tbh, I reckon some other champions can copy the build and produce relatively sound results. Maybe riot can give the item a little buff to give people more incentive to use it, other wise they may as well remove it from the game.

IainG101 votes

It may be essentially mandatory on any AP mid, but certainly I always build it last (with the single exception of Veigar, but only if I'm hilariously ahead...)

Leto GT1 votes

Absolutely not mandatory at all. Barely anyone build it currently. It's at best a 4 or 5th items buy.

BLIGHTBRINGER1 votes

I disagree with the item 3089 bit, I even see people build it as a first item now a days, or even as a second item after something like item 3285.

wildfox995 votes

i think AP and MS should have 2 different duration

let's say bonus MS 3 sec and bonus AP 10 sec

also the stack system should be removed or at least reduced to 50 (max stats unchanged)so you don't have to have a Cassiopeia vs Ryze for stacking it

Fisher No Chains3 votes

This ^

Reaching 100 stacks is almost impossible unless you don’t use the active for 10 minutes (or you’re Ryze/Cass). The thing is that you’re rewarded for not using it rather than for using it every time it is up.

Just change the way it stacks and it could become a decent item.

Ionian Vulpix4 votes

I could see it being really, really good on Cass and maybe Ryze.

DeusVult2 votes

Yes but they dont really have the room in their build for the item, since they are close ranged battlemages who need to build some form of defenses along with their damage.

Jellyfish Rave3 votes

I actually thought it was going to be an active with a long CD meant for hardcore power moves initially, and then I realized you have to fuck yourself while people use ONE HUNDRED abilities near you before you can get the max buff

La Bello3 votes

I go double spellbinder as a boot replacement sometimes in super long games.

thats really about it though. Im too much of a brainlet wojak to remember to use the active properly and I often forget about it because Im focusing more on my champion and their kit nuances.

Linna Excel3 votes

Good stats, but IDK about the passive. I'm guessing riot is going to delete/rework it at the end of the season because no one cares about it.

Madsin252 votes

It can be a good item for champs like vlad and kennen.

I still just skip it most of the time for HP/AP items Instead of buying spellbinder and instantly exploding when someone hits me.

SugeMinPikk2 votes

I build it in ARAM and URF

Other than that... nah

Lush Father2 votes

I mainly see it on ARAM.

Tokogawaruf2 votes

I build it on my Evelynn whenever i get the Money. My main Problem is that its almost impossible to get semi-important Items anymore because the Game ends when most haven´t even build their Core Item(s) yet. Might also be the case for Spellbinder, since it isnt a Core item on anyone.

Sire Hippington2 votes

My mai issue is the stcking mechanic on it, on many champs it just takes years to get it charged. I'd prefer a flat active that has a set CD and always gives the same ms+ap.(maybe 50AP and 40%ms with 60sec CD) As for the Duration, i think it shouldn't be much more than 4-5sec, else dps casters could get to much power from it. It's ment to empower a single burst rotation/all-in, not to empower you for an full teamfight. It's not that hard to time the active around your CDs, just don't spam your stuff mindlessly and it's easy.

FrostlySpark2 votes

Annie

sardonisms1 votes

Didn't she start building item 2065 instead because it's cheaper and comes with mana regen? Or was that just something Annie Bot was doing?

ahferroin72 votes

TBH, it's not a particularly attractive item for multiple reasons.

  • It's only got AP and MS (as compared to everything else that builds out of Aether Wisp).
  • It takes forever to charge up to a reasonable boost unless you're playing as or against certain champs.
  • The boost doesn't last long enough for most people who can charge it fast to really benefit.

I've used it on Karrthus once or twice to decent benefit, but not the way it was meant to be used (I build up max stacks, and then pop it right as I die to give my ult a boost), but not really on anybody else.

Tomoe Gozen2 votes

Spellbinder's true potential is unlocked with Rabadon's, when the extra AP you get for a few seconds also gets boosted by 35%. It's a rather niche purchase but not "unwanted". It's limited, given that its effect also gives you % MS (based on charges) to possibly chase down your opponents but the thing is that it mostly functions like a makeshift Luden's.

It's an item that boosts spells, not one that is focused on some form of defense (Zhonya's effect or HP). Hense, mages would always skip it because it's not an early purchase and later, you have to itemize against the enemy items (Void Staff, Rylai's, Liandry's, etc). There's simply not a lot of wiggle room because mage's purchases are mostly predetermined by the matchup and the eventual late game.

It's not a trap purchase (like old Zephyr was) but it's not a staple purchase either.

Now, it could be a great support item (as if Mejai's wasn't) but the cost is a bit off-putting, given that it's full price is tailored for a solo laner (2900 gold). It functions well against teams that spam a lot of spells or even for your own team, if there are champs like Cass or Kass around. That would charge it up quickly to 100 stacks.

If i were to buff it, i would likely increase its active duration to 6 seconds (from 4) or reduce the active CD time to 45 seconds (from 60). Or, maybe allow it to charge up to 200 stacks but then ignore my previous buffs. Maybe time gate this +100% overcharge to make sure that mages can't just sit on it and threaten an immediate 100-0 burst, which means that likely in the mid-late game, this item would be charging from 150-200. So no 200% charge early into the game for easy AP nuke damage. This would allow a semblance of balance around it and make it better as a standalone item.

So at the first 10 minutes, Spellbinder is hard capped to 100% charge. After 10 minutes, every 1 minute (or 1.5), it gains additional 10% overcharge. That would mean tha at 20-25 minutes, it can reach its full potential of 200%. Rod of Ages has the same mechanic built in so it's not a stretch to do something like this. We can call this effect "Arcane Capacitor" or "Arcane Battery" or something along those lines.

I think it's a great item overall but a little bit constrained in terms of its usability. Luden's is 300g more expensive and has 30 AP less but it helps a lot more in waveclear or poke because its charge mechanic is passive. Spellbinder is also not immediately usable because you need to stack it up first and it's mostly going to be used on a teamfight/1v1 instead of waveclearing.

Sex With Annie1 votes

stacks take an eternity to charge up so its usually not worth building

Hyquiem1 votes

I don’t even know what it does less then the fact it’s not really in any of my poools builds.

Witch of Babylon1 votes

I like it on Janna mid

D2Vincent1 votes

The only time I've seen a Spellbinder was when a Karthus wants to go Predator/Celerity for the 1-shot memes lol.

I mean, it's probably good on Karthus, but it's so hard knowing the proper time when to buy it.

MrDrBudd1 votes

People who can build it and use it effectively need to get close to their enemy. With the amount of burst in the game right now. It leaves no room to not build defensive items instead.

VoraciousX1 votes

Honestly I hate the item unless I'm going for something like Twin Shadows/Shurelya's Reverie/Ludens for like a super kiting build on someone like Annie or something. Even then it's only for the move speed, it's kinda awkward to utilize the active with damage in mind if you're also trying to kite.

Larriet1 votes

On Battle Mages, you're using it mainly to get in range of someone, not for the AP specifically.

On burst mages, it's basically "Oh, I hit my CC, time to unload". No burst mage really takes longer than 4 seconds to get their burst out.

YuGiHo1 votes

I know i dont like it, it was made to fill the gap of old luden as a raw ap+ms item but i cant ever see myself using it often because of the stupid stacking mechanic. I have purchased it as a ap youmus to give my less mobile champs i play like annie or velkoz an escape skill but other than that its a nope for me.

SweedishGunner1 votes

I love the idea behind the item but actually trying to use the active effectively is rather hard and not worth it in the end.

Jhobi1 votes

I like it on Karthus and sometimes Lux.

invisiblecat11 votes

I'd rather have half the AP for 8 seconds instead Then I might actually buy it

Nut on my Butt2 votes

That would be a nerf though. You're getting the same additional damage from it, but it takes twice as long to deal that damage. And then on abilities with longer cds than 8s like ultimates, you actually lose damage.

invisiblecat11 votes

But Spellbinder is meant to be used on champions will low Cooldown abilities that can quickly get it to 100 Stacks This means that champions like Karthus and Cassiopeia will get the same efficiency if you are only using their Q/E, however the extra time give them the ability to set up their W's without too much risk

Ahris1 votes

Its good on Vlad and Swain Id assume.

Though, if I wanted AP, i would just build rabadons. Spellbinder is meh, it is a niche item i feel.

Shablagoo1 votes

If they decresed the stacking component it would be better, cuz honestly it really looks solid the cost is so low for how much ap it gives

QmegaSquadVeigar1 votes

It's' really strong on champs that don't need really need mana and have high ap ratios and is really good combined with rabadon cause of the spike (Vlad and Annie are really good with it for example)

Titanium701 votes

I Spellbinder is a good and cool Item - However curently I rarely get to the point of the game where I'd consider it. You simply NEED so much other stuffto be relevant as a mage.

item 3285 item 3916 item 3020 are kinda mandatory.

THAN you can make some decisions. item 3135 item 3089 item 3041item 3116 item 3151 item 3907 + item 3157 item 3102

Are interesting choices for classic mages.

If you want a Latgame Void/Death are once again mandatory. However if you want and can close the game as fast as possible, it's a good time to pick up the Spellbinder. Burstmage should do that if they do not need defensives at this point.

Playing mostly scaling mages my selfe I rarely do that. For me Spellbinder is save but expensive Mejai.

I cant really go for it as a 4th. So I usually have to delay it to 6th Item. However there are very few setups I'd not just go for Mejai earlier in the game.

Leto GT1 votes

It's a niche item. You can trade boots with it very late game. Syncs well with the celerity rune and lichbane.

Dr Dog1 votes

i like it but thats proabably because i play evelynn, and its good on her

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