Let's just review the great success of Riots Preseason 5 goals

MrSc0tty·Dec 19, 2014·4 votes·427 views

Increase champ diversity

Professional pool currently contains a record low 19 champions.

Great success. Moving on.

increase strategic diversity

Ranged bully top, safe Mage mid, jungle/mid camp bot until someone gets first dragon. That team wins 84% of the time.

Amazing success

increase item diversity.

Morellonomicon/IE first build on 6-8 champs in a given match.

Censer, Glory, Ohmwrecker, Warmogs, Reaver and every other new/updated item boasts a 0% build rate.

We'll check that one off the list too, done and done.

19 Comments

JamareeDec 19, 20142 votes

To be fair, the season just started, and with number one, there isn't very going to be a time again where anything more then the top twenty are pick.

FyshinaTuxDec 19, 20141 votes

Personally I think this is an item set issue.

I know, "how do the items affect what champions pros play?" Honestly? If the item set within League was more intricate, and more situational, it would allow a couple things:

Varied team compositions based around varied goals (having specific items for siege, or allin, being an example)
The items could work with each champion in varying ways (kind of like how IE is great for all ADCs, but Tri-Force is great for a few ADCs)

I honestly think that with a better overall item set, there is a FAR greater chance to see not only new champions in the pro scene, but new team comps and strategies as well.

RaptameiDec 19, 20141 votes

The meta is very rigid because Riot wants this game to be about micro/skillshots/movement instead of macro strategy. A game that is heavy on macro strategy, like Dota, tends to have lanes that are won/lost in champion select and game goals that often don't have to do with being good at fighting (eg. "drag the game out until medusa has her core items", "put 3 people into their top lane so their carry can't farm" or "split push incessantly"). This is something Riot doesn't want and therefore attempts to remove from the game.

Unfortunately the game is stuck with the macro strategy framework of Dota anyway:

League should not have as many champions as it does. This is a relic from Dota's time as a Warcraft 3 map and having tons of content was necessary to attract players.
League should not have as many items as it does. Items exist because Warcraft 3 has items, and most of Dota's items are hard counters to something, which League explicitely tries to avoid.
League should have more than 4 abilities per champion. Most modern champions are already trying to do so, but failing.

As for champion variety, in Dota you have multiple strategies with a pool of like 20 viable champions for each strategy. League doesn't want this because it tends to lead to unequal matchups (eg. side X loses every fight until 30 minutes, then wins every fight. Can you draw out the game long enough?) that have nothing to do with fighting skill. The unfortunate result is that you have a pool of 20 viable champions... period.

The game would be much better off if it had 60 champions with 8 skills each, instead of 120 champions with 4 skills each.

JamareeDec 19, 20141 votes

{quoted}

The meta is very rigid because Riot wants this game to be about micro/skillshots/movement instead of macro strategy. A game that is heavy on macro strategy, like Dota, tends to have lanes that are won/lost in champion select and game goals that often don't have to do with being good at fighting (eg. "drag the game out until medusa has her core items", "put 3 people into their top lane so their carry can't farm" or "split push incessantly").

Unfortunately the game is stuck with the macro strategy framework of Dota anyway:

League should not have as many champions as it does. This is a relic from Dota's time as a Warcraft 3 map and having tons of content was necessary to attract players.

League should not have as many items as it does. Items exist because Warcraft 3 has items, and most of Dota's items are hard counters to something, which League explicitely tries to avoid.

League should have more than 4 abilities per champion. Most modern champions are already trying to do so, but failing.

As for champion variety, in Dota you have multiple strategies with a pool of like 20 viable champions for each strategy. League doesn't want this because it tends to lead to unequal matchups (eg. side X loses every fight until 30 minutes, then wins every fight. Can you draw out the game long enough?) that have nothing to do with fighting skill. The unfortunate result is that you have a pool of 20 viable champions... period.

The game would be much better off if it had 60 champions with 8 skills each, instead of 120 champions with 4 skills each.

Then people would whine that things get stale because there isn't enough variety on top of being difficult to an unnecessary degree...Eight skills...how would that even work, how would anyone even manage all that?

AmazingGoatDec 19, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Then people would whine that things get stale because there isn't enough variety on top of being difficult to an unnecessary degree...Eight skills...how would that even work, how would anyone even manage all that?

Ever watched a WC3 or SC2 match?

Knight DevoutDec 19, 20141 votes

I don't agree on adding abilities. You see, the more tools you give to a champion, and the more flexible he becomes. Unless you make those abilities similar, with a same goal, and in the end you just have split functionality and mana cost. example: Giving Varus 2 volleys, one that slows, and one that reduces cures.

if, on the other hand, you give a unit/class too many abilities, you end with units and classes too similar too each other, thus generating only the illusion of choice, while actually you are not picking at all: everyone can do everything, you are only picking a build (i.e. you only pick what's best in that specific thing you want to do). An example of this was WoW before the massive ability pruning of Warlords of Draenor.

SnackieCakesDec 19, 20141 votes

Did you ever play Bloodline Champions? It was perfect for what you're describing (emphasizing micro with fewer champions, more abilities, no items, and for a long time no runes/masteries).

Unfortunately it was also a very hardcore game and didn't ever get much an audience. SO GOOD, THOUGH!

Knight DevoutDec 19, 20141 votes

TBH I don't remember a season where we had more than 20 champions picked costantly.
Until riot doesn't acknowledge that tanks have no chance to do something meaningful in teamfights if all their resistance items are gold ineffective while carries can build last whisper...yeah, I almost miss double warmog back in the day that botrk wasn't in game. Almost. OH DID I MENTION THAT DRAGON SCALES WITH MAGES AND AD BETTER THAN TANKS? GO FIGURE!(Because putting %damage increase was silly, right? Let's just increase the damage of those who already build damage, and while we are at it, let's spit in tanks face: they endure worse after all).
As above. Dragon multiplies your ad and ap, so you rush ad and ap. Morellonomicon is 140% stat efficient. BUT LET'S PRODUCE MORE UNDERPOWERED NICHE ITEMS, GOD FORBID SOMEONE PICKS THEM UP.

Ah, sorry for the rant, but it hurts. It hurts when you read the massive feedback from players ignored from riot and belittled from other players. "what?!? You mean you want an item that doesn't suck on something different than adc or mage?!? Go tape yourself to a nuclear warhead and shoot yourself in the sun!" Well, yeah, in that case let's continue this way.

JamareeDec 19, 20142 votes

{quoted}

TBH I don't remember a season where we had more than 20 champions picked costantly.

Until riot doesn't acknowledge that tanks have no chance to do something meaningful in teamfights if all their resistance items are gold ineffective while carries can build last whisper...yeah, I almost miss double warmog back in the day that botrk wasn't in game. Almost. OH DID I MENTION THAT DRAGON SCALES WITH MAGES AND AD BETTER THAN TANKS? GO FIGURE!(Because putting %damage increase was silly, right? Let's just increase the damage of those who already build damage, and while we are at it, let's spit in tanks face: they endure worse after all).

As above. Dragon multiplies your ad and ap, so you rush ad and ap. Morellonomicon is 140% stat efficient. BUT LET'S PRODUCE MORE UNDERPOWERED NICHE ITEMS, GOD FORBID SOMEONE PICKS THEM UP.

Ah, sorry for the rant, but it hurts. It hurts when you read the massive feedback from players ignored from riot and belittled from other players. "what?!? You mean you want an item that doesn't suck on something different than adc or mage?!? Go tape yourself to a nuclear warhead and shoot yourself in the sun!" Well, yeah, in that case let's continue this way.

The problem with listening to the community is that you can't listen to just one side. Contrary to what people here believe, they are the minority, the very vocal minority. Also, they are hesitant to make tanks too strong out of fear of creating the season 2 meta again. You know, the meta where tanks and bruisers built pure tank and outDPSed the mid and ADC?

Knight DevoutDec 19, 20141 votes

BEfore this item item 3071 ? Or this item? item 3153 or before they buffed priority in damage calculation buffing those items? item 3035 item 3135

And , while they were at it, before they nerfed those items? item 3083 item 3143 while also buffing critical and attack speed?

Yeah, might as well talk about dodge at this point.

JamareeDec 19, 20144 votes

{quoted}

BEfore this item ? Or this item? or before they buffed priority in damage calculation buffing those items?

And , while they were at it, before they nerfed those items? while also buffing critical and attack speed?

Yeah, might as well talk about dodge at this point.

Yes, and do you remember that season? That season where 5 bruisers were a legit strat. Where it was a game of protect the ADC, not because they do the most damage, but protect the ADC because the full tank bruiser is outDPSing them. The season where LW and Void barely did anything UNTIL you had the rest of your build. I want balance too, but I don't want blind ignorance of what would happen if tanks and tank items were buffed without thinking a bit.

Knight DevoutDec 19, 20141 votes

As I said, you are almost talking about dodge era. It's no longer the season where you can stack 5 sunfire capes.

In this meta, you pick Jayce top or Lissandra because you need another player stacking ad and ap, and the cc from a tank is not useful enough if you don't have the dps to kill 3 other carries while they are locked on.

JamareeDec 19, 20142 votes

{quoted}

As I said, you are almost talking about dodge era. It's no longer the season where you can stack 5 sunfire capes.

In this meta, you pick Jayce top or Lissandra because you need another player stacking ad and ap, and the cc from a tank is not useful enough if you don't have the dps to kill 3 other carries while they are locked on.

I understand we aren't back at that season, why do you think the game has shifted to this point, BECAUSE of that scene, Riot is hesitant on letting that happen again. And there is no quick fix or simple change that will make everything fair and balanced for everyone at all times, no matter what happens, there is always a role or area or class that is always going to be shafted.

Knight DevoutDec 19, 20141 votes

Yes, we are far away, but if we don't want to incur in a even worse scenario (5 damage dealers), they need to find tanks a place/role where they should be efficient in.

JamareeDec 19, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Yes, we are far away, but if we don't want to incur in a even worse scenario (5 damage dealers), they need to find tanks a place/role where they should be efficient in.

Right now, we aren't in too bad of a spot, we are close, but you are right, Tanks need a bit more of an oomph.

Knight DevoutDec 19, 20141 votes

They could make dragon first stack give % damage increase instead of % ad and ap, that way it also scales with the base damage of those who don't buy ad or ap.

JamareeDec 19, 20141 votes

{quoted}

They could make dragon first stack give % damage increase instead of % ad and ap, that way it also scales with the base damage of those who don't buy ad or ap.

All damage? Because that might tilt it a bit unfairly for true damage dealers.

Knight DevoutDec 19, 20141 votes

As far as I know,true damage against champion is unaffected by damage modifiers, both ways. Doesn't increase, doesn't decrease.

Meep ManDec 19, 20141 votes

Eh, its hard to judge until the Season gets rolling and people actually figure stuff out.
Once again its hard to tell so early in the Season.
Wrong, I build Righteous Glory on Singed, Hecarim, Olaf, etc. Ohmwrecker gives too low stats honestly. Finally, Reaver needs something to build into it.

Also, WELCOME TO THE PRESEASON, BEFORE SEASON 5 HAS STARTED!