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Dear Riot: Mobility is not allowed to be what makes a champ unique anymore

MrSc0tty··272 votes·11,873 views

You have officially exhausted mobility. We have spammable infinite manaless mobility in melee and at range. We have mobile mages assassins carries supports bruisers fighters tanks hybrid ranged bully hypermagetankfighters assassintankbruiserfighters and every other class under the sun. We have repeatable dashes with global teleports and every time a champ like that is released you say:

"What's unique about them? Well gosh they're just so darn mobile!!!"

You're not allowed to do that anymore. Saying that is now like asking Nintendo for a hint on their next game and getting

"It will involve one or more characters you've seen before."

We know the next champ will be defined by mobility. Practically every champ is defined by mobility now, or every champ that matters. When you tell us what's unique, tell us what they do differently besides the tacked on mobility that every champ has to have now. I try not to think about how cool some of the more recent champs would be without the levels of mobility they have, how many interesting and thematic elements of their kits you could have fit in if every champ didn't have to have "And now the pelvic thrusts! WHOOOOOOOO. WHOOOOOOOOOOO" as a move. Maybe Azir could have had sand archers, or a way to split his army into platoons, or Mega Gnar could have smashed someone from one side to the other like a ragdoll. Maybe lissandra could have created a slippery field that locks the enemy movement in a certain direction when they cross it. But that's not the point here.

Please, the next time you create a champ...focus on something other than the mobility. tell us what is really unique, skip what we already know.

174 Comments

MrBuffington57 votes

What I don't really understand: I remember Riot reworked Lucian into being "the mobility ADC" (ignoring the fact that Vayne also sort of fills this niche, though Vayne has more of a hypercarry feel where Lucian is more of a "standard ADC", a la Graves, Ezreal, Caitlyn, etc). He was supposed to be the most mobile ADC in the game, which is fair, he has a (free at rank 5) dash with a reduced cooldown mechanic with his passive, and a ton of MS granted from his W; some other champions share a similar niche (Ezreal, Graves), but Lucian did have the most mobility (even after most of the nerfs), which he traded his range for. Fair enough, Lucian now has a niche in the game.

Then Riot releases Kalista. Sure, she occupies somewhat of a different niche (somewhat being a combination of like, Ashe with the utility and kiting ability, Twitch with the stacking and detonation sort of spell, and Vayne with the mobility within fights), but all of a sudden Lucian's mobility doesn't seem so special anymore. If he was supposed to be the most mobile ADC, he sure doesn't feel like it anymore.

Jaghatai44 votes

Kalista is ridiculous ... they should never have released her the way she is. They need to nerf that mobility.

MrBuffington16 votes

I'm not even complaining about Kalista; what gets me is like, there were maybe a few months between Lucian's rework and Kalista's release; I don't know if there's some huge lack of communication between teams or something, but with a typical champion development cycle (which takes a few months at least, much longer probably for a champion with all the new tech that Kalista introduced), they must have known that Kalista was in development when they made the claim that Lucian was "the mobility ADC". Even if Kalista's passive was created after the rework (which I doubt, since IIRC from the dev blog, the kit was sort of built around that), why would they go forward with that when they're already trying to give that niche to Lucian?

Alorasence20 votes

It isn't fun to play against that kind of mobility. It is so damn frustrating.

Yasuo is in a similar spot.

These "hyper-mobile" campions, by design, make immobility unviable in league of legends.

Hyrum Graff7 votes

Personally, I feel like Kalista and Lucian SHOULD BE the adc you can't catch and the adc you can't run from, respectively. The only problem is that from a story perspective, they're both about hunting people down. Thematically, then, it doesn't make sense for Kali to be the adc you can't catch -- but that's what makes sense from a gameplay perspective.

MrBuffington5 votes

The only problem is that from a story perspective, they're both about hunting people down

(psst so is Vayne)

I'm mostly just agreeing with OP where mobility doesn't really feel like the "selling point" of a champion anymore, especially when you have other champions that aren't necessarily supposed to have that niche that feel like they overshadow your champion (as seems to be the case with Lucian and Kalista).

Partholonian3 votes

{quoted}

(psst so is Vayne)

And unlike the other two, half of Vayne's mobility really is specifically designed to be useless as an escape. Unlike Kalista's, which is designed to be better as an escape, even though it doesn't fit her personality. And is really questionable game design for a marksman, they have a high enough reward from kiting already that it's very dangerous to give them such a strong tool to do it better.

I think they should consider removing the bonus hop distance on backwards hops. If she wants to kite for days, make her rend to do it (which means she'll eventually run out of resets, and makes her weak to slow resistance like Yi and Olaf).

JevelFaithful3 votes

{quoted}

Then Riot releases Kalista.

If memory serves, Kalista was marketed as a teamwork adc. For some reason she also has constant mobility. That's two "un-adc-like" features on the same adc. Fun fact, it feels like the 2 most teamwork-by-design champions are Kalista, thresh and braum. Braum less so than Thresh, I think. Ironically, both are specters from the Shadow Island.

MrBuffington20 votes

Bonus fun fact: Both were also designed by CertainlyT

My argument is basically that some champions, like Lucian, are supposed to have this unique strength (mobility), where other champions (Kalista) are release that feel like they're stepping on their toes to the point where their 'unique strength' doesn't feel so unique anymore.

JevelFaithful4 votes

Amen. SOrry, I didn't mean to throw the discussion away form your point. You're right.

Nameless Voice21 votes

As you say, both were designed by CertainlyT. His design philosophy is to overload every one of his champions with as many strengths and as much flexibility as he can think of in their kit.

Who are a handful of the most-hated, most-picked champions, or at least those with the most overloaded kits?

Thresh Overloaded support who does everything Zed Overloaded assassin who does everything, currently one of the most-hated champions in the game Yasuo Super-mobile overloaded assassin who practically invalidates all skillshot/harass mages Kalista Super-mobile ADC who practically invalidates a huge portion of mêlée champions and skillshot-based champions

Three of the four also do have very binary matchups, being able to either stomp or be stomped based on picks rather than in-game counterplay. Many of his champions outright contradict several of Riot's own stated design goals, specifically counterplay ("League isn’t won at champion select") and teamplay (no "designing champions who do everything")

Zazusha31 votes

next champ will have 2 skills for mobility, and 3 Knock ups/Displacements. Cus riot fucking LOVES knock ups and displacements. Every champ after Jinx has one.

and ofc the reasoning is "it really helps define what the champion is"

DrCyanide26 votes

Coincidentally, they all happen to synergize with the champion that was released right after Jinx, Yasuo.

That's another thing I hate seeing. "Synergizes with Yasuo". Yes, you already mentioned they have three ways to bang champions around, we didn't need you to spell it out for us.

Zazusha5 votes

oh really? you mean the champ that also started the trend of paragraph long skill descriptions? and 3 passives?

Quite the coincident indeed. Let us not forget the reworks too. like idk, Sion? 2 potential team sized Knock ups. one with a 4 second cd.

junglerboy169 votes

At least he has to actually hit you with his knock ups, one requires a lengthy and very obvious charge up time, and the other requires that your opponent doesn't just sidestep your ult. Sion is probably the single healthiest kit that they have introduced to the game in a LONG time, since he ACTUALLY has counter play and weaknesses (deny farm, dodge skill shots, map awareness, etc.).

Zazusha4 votes

i'd agree sion is the healthiest new kit in a long time. (minus Velkoz, he was released almost balanced. They even had to buff him slightly.) But still, He's got knock ups that riot just loves dishing out to ppl. Knock ups that are only getting easier.

I'd bet when they compensate Morde for dfg's removal, they give him a knock up or displacement on his mace of spades or something. And the next champ will have a targeted knock up, cus they are running low on ideas for knock ups.

Solaxo4 votes

{quoted}

next champ will have 2 skills for mobility, and 3 Knock ups/Displacements. Cus riot fucking LOVES knock ups and displacements. Every champ after Jinx has one.

and ofc the reasoning is "it really helps define what the champion is"

I know I know why! Because LC$ BIG FLASHY PLAYS

The Storm Dragon5 votes

{quoted}

I know I know why! Because LC$ BIG FLASHY PLAYS

Technically right, but you're a little off there. Riot is increasing mobility and lowering base stats while removing many targeted skills. Because that way, fights come down to skill and who can outplay who as opposed to someone like Ryze where it's 'If his stats are higher than yours, you can't ever enter his range. But if your stats are higher, then he can't do anything about it.'

Yormaughm15 votes

[{quoted}](name=OGZ Wiz Kalista,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F6LdZ2RE,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-02-09T18:01:05.855+0000)

Technically right, but you're a little off there. Riot is increasing mobility and lowering base stats while removing many targeted skills. Because that way, fights come down to skill and who can outplay who as opposed to someone like Ryze where it's 'If his stats are higher than yours, you can't ever enter his range. But if your stats are higher, then he can't do anything about it.'

You're completely right about that, but I don't see it as that much of a problem if it's limited to just a few champions, which it is right now.

I for one can't understand why every champ has to have mobility now. I understand that it may be less fun and that the dreaded "toxic" or "no counterplay" buzzwords get used against high-risk high-reward immobile mages like Ryze or Veigar or Cassiopiea. The feeling is these champs will just win if you get close to them while they're ahead of you in items, but by removing this from these champions when they rework them (they've already said they're going to probably change Ryze to have a skillshot and I have a really bad feeling about what they're about to do to Veigar) and by never releasing new champs that do this, they're completely removing variety and yes even their own favorite term "strategic diversity" from the game.

Now almost every single new and reworked champion, no matter what their role is has range, mobility, and some form of CC. And when the champ is designed to be a ranged champ, like Kalista, this amount of power and utility is insane. Congratulations, everyone now does everything, and there's no more diversity. I said it in another thread and I'm going to keep saying it because I think it's accurate, the game has turned into League of Dodgeball.

Everybody pokes until someone gets hit by CC or until someone blows crucial cooldowns, then everyone goes in. If nobody ever goes in, because players are actually good and don't get hit by skillshots, games last 50 minutes until one team gets an ace or 4 for 1 or something. At least Ryze and Veigar can just Leeroy Jenkins and force a teamfight that's basically guaranteed to be at least a 1 for 1 (and yes I understand this can also backfire greatly, hence the "high-risk high-reward" modifier earlier.) In League of Dodgeball the only thing you can force is a stalemate.

It would be really bad if every champion had the power and ability to instakill that champs like Ryze and Veigar have, but it would also be really bad if none of them had that power either, and that's the direction Riot is heading in. Having a few instakill short-range burst mages is not unhealthy, and it's also not without counterplay.

The person whom I'm quoting even said, don't get in Ryze's (short) range, that's one way to beat Ryze, and that's counterplay. Focusing him is counterplay, certain items are counterplay, counterpicking in the pick/ban phase is counterplay. Just because it doesn't look flashy doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. This may not be the most "fun" way to play the game, but there are ways to counterplay other than playing skillshot dodgeball or "we're not fighting unless we all have flash up."

JevelFaithful4 votes

{quoted}

I for one can't understand why every champ has to have mobility now. I understand that it may be less fun and that the dreaded "toxic" or "no counterplay" buzzwords get used against high-risk high-reward immobile mages like Ryze or Veigar or Cassiopiea. The feeling is these champs will just win if you get close to them while they're ahead of you in items, but by removing this from these champions when they rework them (...) and by never releasing new champs that do this, **they're completely removing variety and yes even their own favorite term "strategic diversity" from the game. **

+1 for that tought, good sir. That's precisely how I feel too. Most new champions look frankly boring to me at first sight : mobility, CC, skill shot, gimmick. yawn I've noticed I only ever start to get interested in a champion after the real identity comes out. Carry? Assassin? Mage? Farmer? (nvm they don't make farmer anymore)

Accept Azir, he'S the only one I actually liked. Ironically, he is a AA-based farmer with limited mobility (not low, limited) and pretty much with no CC. 3 boxes out of 4 are out the window.

Aeslan1 votes

League of Dodgeball would be a great idea for a featured gamemode.

Sinlaire7 votes

{quoted}

League of Dodgeball would be a great idea for a featured gamemode.

already happened. Legend of the Poro King

Also Blitzcrank, Ahri, Orianna, and Syndra in URF.

Condottiero6 votes

{quoted}

You're completely right about that, but I don't see it as that much of a problem if it's limited to just a few champions, which it is right now.

I for one can't understand why every champ has to have mobility now. I understand that it may be less fun and that the dreaded "toxic" or "no counterplay" buzzwords get used against high-risk high-reward immobile mages like Ryze or Veigar or Cassiopiea. The feeling is these champs will just win if you get close to them while they're ahead of you in items, but by removing this from these champions when they rework them (they've already said they're going to probably change Ryze to have a skillshot and I have a really bad feeling about what they're about to do to Veigar) and by never releasing new champs that do this, they're completely removing variety and yes even their own favorite term "strategic diversity" from the game.

Now almost every single new and reworked champion, no matter what their role is has range, mobility, and some form of CC. And when the champ is designed to be a ranged champ, like Kalista, this amount of power and utility is insane. Congratulations, everyone now does everything, and there's no more diversity. I said it in another thread and I'm going to keep saying it because I think it's accurate, the game has turned into League of Dodgeball.

Everybody pokes until someone gets hit by CC or until someone blows crucial cooldowns, then everyone goes in. If nobody ever goes in, because players are actually good and don't get hit by skillshots, games last 50 minutes until one team gets an ace or 4 for 1 or something. At least Ryze and Veigar can just Leeroy Jenkins and force a teamfight that's basically guaranteed to be at least a 1 for 1 (and yes I understand this can also backfire greatly, hence the "high-risk high-reward" modifier earlier.) In League of Dodgeball the only thing you can force is a stalemate.

It would be really bad if every champion had the power and ability to instakill that champs like Ryze and Veigar have, but it would also be really bad if none of them had that power either, and that's the direction Riot is heading in. Having a few instakill short-range burst mages is not unhealthy, and it's also not without counterplay.

The person whom I'm quoting even said, don't get in Ryze's (short) range, that's one way to beat Ryze, and that's counterplay. Focusing him is counterplay, certain items are counterplay, counterpicking in the pick/ban phase is counterplay. Just because it doesn't look flashy doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. This may not be the most "fun" way to play the game, but there are ways to counterplay other than playing skillshot dodgeball or "we're not fighting unless we all have flash up."

If only I could upvote you more than once.

It seems to me as if punishing bad decision making is also slowly getting removed from the game too. Look at old champions like Annie Brand Malzahar . Get caught once, you die. This encourages good positioning and overall adds "counterplay"because it restricts how aggressive they can be until they become vulnerable.

Recent champions however don't have this weakness. What happens if Kalista gets ganked in lane? Dash out. What happens if Azir gets ganked in lane? Dash out. What happens if Yasuo gets ganked in lane? Dash 99999 times.

Hyrum Graff4 votes

The reason Riot loves knockups/displacements is that they feel better to use than a stun of the same duration.

Not sure if I agree or disagree, but get your facts straight.

RivetAce12 votes

And they make cleanse even more of a useless spell.

Zazusha7 votes

and GP's W. orange dont ground a pirate.

Also fucking TENACITY, The one thing to build against CC doesnt.

SpecterVonBaren10 votes

Velkoz I am a special snowflake.

Focus Teemo6 votes

{quoted}

next champ will have 2 skills for mobility, and 3 Knock ups/Displacements. Cus riot fucking LOVES knock ups and displacements. Every champ after Jinx has one.

and ofc the reasoning is "it really helps define what the champion is"

Don't forget percent damage...

Zazusha5 votes

% of Missnt HP, and % of Current. like elise, Only ya kno, it'll be better.

Shaded Striker22 votes

I would honestly say without Martial step Kalista, atleast, has multiple things to make her kit unique.

Her rend stacks, her soul bind and passive effects, her ultimate... It makes me a bit sad that people look at her passive(which I agree is ridiculous) and frown.

I wish they had just made soul bind her only passive and buffed everything else.

junglerboy163 votes

Rend stacks are just a copy paste of twitch's Expunge, but without the stack cap to make sure they are up to CertainlyT's OPness standards. Martial poise is a bad part of her kit, yes, but she has a lot of other problems. I'd be fine if they pushed her more towards the "utility ADC with unparalleled objective control" niche that she already seems to be leaning towards, and then either nerfed her passive or completely changed it.

Xengre21 votes

Seriously, adding this much mobility in their game really locked out a lot of the unique designs Riot could have done. They knew mobility was an issue so I can't grasp why they decided to bring out an entire army of mobile champs in the last 2 years. To compete with other mobile champs was NOT the answer. A shame really.

Dankplank42017 votes

Mobility isn't necessarily a problem, but unconditional mobility definitely is. To me, Quinn's E is the gold standard of what "mobility" should look like in league, it is conditional, and requires positioning to take advantage of it, rather than just clicking in the direction you want to go in. Lee Sin's ward jumping is the exact opposite of that, free escapes over walls all day.

Isajohoff17 votes

Fun fact: Lee was never intended to ward jump. It's a bug which riot didn't fix in time. Now LCS big plays -> its staying

kunkudunk6 votes

I never knew that but this really peeves me.

Subject 512 votes

Mobility should give a champion an advantage and a disadvantage.

Mobile = less damage or extremely squishy Non mobile = Deals more damage

Champions that disobey this rule have balancing issues because, you know, the balancing team. LeeSin Kalista Zed

qetzel9 votes

If we are being fair, excluding Kalista the last four champions just have mobility. It doesn't define them. Azir is defined by his soldiers and his zone control, Rek'sai by her tunnels and Tremor sense, Gnar by his not entirely controllable transformation (and I would say the ultimate) and Braum... I'm not sure what defines Braum... Poros? Certainly not his targeted dash to ally champions.

Edited because my "" ky sucks

PokladnicaZla16 votes

Umm Rek´Sai´s tunnels count as mobility.Just sayin...

Rock Rockburgh5 votes

Braum is defined by his shield, I'd say.

MrSc0tty3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock Rockburgh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F6LdZ2RE,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2015-02-09T17:06:24.621+0000)

Braum is defined by his shield, I'd say.

But he's the only mobile support in the entire game.

9kPluzZ4 votes

{quoted}

But he's the only mobile support in the entire game.

Thresh is pretty mobile. Leona too in a sense

Shaded Striker14 votes

{quoted}

If we are being fair, excluding Kalista the last four champions just have mobility. It doesn't define them. Azir is defined by his soldiers and his zone control, Rek'sai by her tunnels and Tremor sense, Gnar by his not entirely controllable transformation (and I would say the ultimate) and Braum... I'm not sure what defines Braum... Poros? Certainly not his targeted dash to ally champions.

Edited because my "" ky sucks

And to think, Kalista was suppose to be defined by her soulbound, not her martial step.

Knight SoIaire 9 votes

your point is correct mobility is not unique in any way any more basicaly every mobility we have resembles some mobility of other champon lucian graves vayne basicaly have copies of the same skill , a dash with autoatack empowering pant rek sai and tf both have global presence teleport kalista and yasuo both fall under category of infinite short ranged spammabe dashes, the last skill i would actualy consider unique is zigg's satchel charge, and maybe elises rappel vi hecarim and jarwan everyone of them has a gapclosser ult with cc on it

But riot doesnt add mobility because they think its unique in any way. Riot adds mobility becuase they think its enough to grind lcs money. Every time you ask them why is mobility so popular their answer is "because its fun", while its their job to make anything fun, and guess what there is a big pool of people who would enjoy a slow champion whos actualy ballanced to fight with mobile ones, just because they like the theme of slow moving giant that relies more on strategy than tactics.

When riot says "its fun tm" you can always see the hidden motive being behind that quote saying that this particular feature is what fits riots image of the game right now.

Lee sin is fun (most boring champ you could play, literaly 0 action besides being numericaly stronger than others, his kit is overpacked with reliability which makes him insanely binary, either you win and you go in for that win or you dont and you stay back, once you learn the plays there is no way to fail them besides your brain lagging or you miscalculating) Zed is fun Mobility is fun Damage is fun Skiillshots are fun

While the rest of those mechanics that is relied on by a big pool of champions is not fun so riot wont ALLOW IT TO BE VIABLE because they say that it will make their game less fun to play.

So yeah mobility is a dead horse riot tries to beat like mad just because they dont want to actualy make their game "fun tm", since it would require spendint lcs money on ppl actualy working

A Fiery Rundas1 votes

When you say lee sin is not fun, do you mean the other people who have to deal with lee sin, or the player? When I play lee sin(and I suck as him) I have fun, but I hate fighting lee sin though.

Knight SoIaire 8 votes

i find him boring to play as once you get the hang of it it becomes a simple calculation, binary almoust

his gameplay relies on lack of commitement unless her is sure to get the reward without punishment

kunkudunk4 votes

Idk I never had fun as lee sin. Sure I'm not great with him, but his kit just doesn't scream fun to me.

Chaotic Reks8 votes

RIP Kassadin

Kitten of Evil8 votes

There's this new game. It'll feature Princess Peach getting kidnapped by Bowser and being rescued by Mario.

MarhsallLee676 votes

Plot twist: It was the wrong castle the whole time!

junglerboy167 votes

I have to agree, the big problem I have with mobility isn't so much that it is too pervasive (because being able to move around the map easily is generally more fun than not), but that Riot thinks it is in any way still a selling point to give a kit mobility. Kalista was the nail in the coffin in terms of mobility being a selling point, since her mobility is literally her core mechanic, and she does it better than anyone else can or could without being absolutely broken. Rek'sai has the best form of Global mobility in the game, and makes most other Global mobility spells pale in comparison. Slap mobility on a kit, no real issue there, just don't try and say it is unique anymore, it is pretty much a design standard and you (Riot) have to sell to me EXACTLY why a champ doesn't have mobility or I won't believe it anymore.

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