Shaco Box In Bushes

Shuyin178·Jun 25, 2017·79 votes·3,305 views

Why is it, that Shaco's boxes stay invisible while in bushes WHILE THEY ARE ATTACKING THINGS? Honestly, everything else in the game that's attacking something in a bush becomes visible, so why does his boxes stay invisible? In order to kill them while they are in a bush, we need vision inside of the bush instead of the box just getting revealed, causing us to have to walk into the box and take extra damage for no reason.

This needs fixed because it's stupid and should not be a thing.

28 Comments

DrugsForRobotsJun 25, 201724 votes

Why is it that every other champion 'pet' can proc Thunder Lord's Decree and SpellThief, but not Shaco's Boxes?

Why is it that Riot gives every champion a free item that includes the functionality to counter Shaco's Boxes? (and Teemo's Shrooms?) rather than changing those abilities to have more counterplay - like say, a delay upon springing (like Jhin's Flowers) and a music SFX that clues you in about Boxes being nearby? (A poison spore DoT cloud for Teemo's Shrooms, rather than applying the DoT directly?)

Why is it that Riot thinks stumbling into CC is what is balanced and fair about Shaco, but his blink-invis and Backstab is the problem?

You know, it's almost like Shaco and Teemo were designed at a point in time where CounterPlay™ and Clarity™ where alien concepts at Riot HQ...

"While counterplay is a type of meaningful choice, it’s so important to League of Legends as a competitive multiplayer game that we consider it a pillar of our design values. A fight loses its excitement if the first punch wins – it's what you can do after that adds depth and complexity. We try to prevent hard counters and abilities with no room for reaction, as no game should be over without a real show of skill."

"Clarity means we want distinct, transparent mechanics in everything we design. When the outcome of a game hinges on a player’s ability to quickly assess the situation, information needs to be clear and accessible. This doesn't mean we tell players the best play to make, but we should make sure they have the right info to make calls as best they can."

--- Ryan "Morello" Scott, Dev Blog: The Design Values of League of Legends

Oblivious DenialJun 25, 20172 votes

Shaco box dmg is coded as one instance of dmg, just like Teemo shrooms. If you notice that when either is triggered by you, you see the tick dmg but also see a another dmg indicator that is added to for every tick. Think about it?

The reason pets proc is it because their attacks are separate instances of dmg.

crippler38Jun 25, 20171 votes

Doesn't apply item 3151 item 3116 or item 3285 either.

ImTheSideKickJun 26, 20171 votes

item 3303 or upgrades either

PoskeJun 26, 20171 votes

They just hate fking ap shaco...

Nothing else to say

Tails9016Jun 26, 20171 votes

But here's the thing; Shaco box damage isn't forced for the duration, unlike Galio q or gangplank r. I believe this is just to balanced certain abilities by giving them the DoT indicator, such as the Shaco box. (since, you know, 1000 damage is already bad enough)

GildarztJun 26, 20171 votes

Talk to zyra.

My Waifu VanillaJun 26, 20171 votes

The same tick indicator works for Zyra plants which can proc TLD and other spell effects.

Tails9016Jun 26, 20171 votes

Guess I'm quitting LoL, see you guys in Dota

Cloud273Jun 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Why is it that every other champion 'pet' can proc Thunder Lord's Decree and SpellThief, but not Shaco's Boxes?

Why is it that Riot gives every champion a free item that includes the functionality to counter Shaco's Boxes? (and Teemo's Shrooms?) rather than changing those abilities to have more counterplay - like say, a delay upon springing (like Jhin's Flowers) and a music SFX that clues you in about Boxes being nearby? (A poison spore DoT cloud for Teemo's Shrooms, rather than applying the DoT directly?)

Why is it that Riot thinks stumbling into CC is what is balanced and fair about Shaco, but his blink-invis and Backstab is the problem?

You know, it's almost like and were designed at a point in time where CounterPlay™ and Clarity™ where alien concepts at Riot HQ...

Just because counterplay wasn't a thing with them back then doesn't mean it can't be a thing now. We can easily add more counterplay to Shaco and Teemo. No excuse not to.

DrugsForRobotsJun 26, 20171 votes

I agree with you.

If Shaco and Teemo were given fair counterplay, they could afford to be more powerful. As it stands, so much of their power is tied up in 'unfair' / low counterplay abilities that Riot has to keep them weak to compensate.

General Esdeath Jun 25, 201717 votes

Riot: Shaco's Q has LITERALLY no counter play, stealth is too strong

Also Riot: We don't like that pink wards provide too much counterplay to stealth champs like Shaco. It's too strong and makes stealth useless.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ruS12OIsBto/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAo/7W0rj-aA3o8/s640/photo.jpg

kasfasJun 26, 20171 votes

I enjoyed this photo.

It would be a good meme to have it say: "You little fudd" "Get your facts straight"

DrugsForRobotsJun 26, 20172 votes

I keep asking for Shaco's puff of smoke VFX to be updated (make it slightly larger, better animated) and his evil laugh upon disappearing SFX to be audible to enemies within a huge range (2000+ units).

I think this is fair counterplay, as enemies who are listening and alert will get a clue that Shaco is near, but they don't necessarily know where he is. It creates tension and paranoia, gives them time to plan and brace themselves, but doesn't necessarily inhibit Shaco's ability to gank. Odds are, if Shaco is being played correctly, by the time you hear him it will already be too late. (And yet, it would feel more fair than 'oh, its Shaco, appearing out of no-where for the kill'.)

20thCenturyFaux actually talked about 'individualized solutions' as a possible way of making invisibility (what is commonly called 'stealth') fair.

https://youtu.be/Fo80Ng-cJeA

RainbowIceeJun 26, 20171 votes

I like that statement it has heart. Sadly if i one point they meant that to be true it is not today as they are pushing further and further into the first lead wins the game type of scenario. So atm, yea i'd say first punch it's very highly likely to win the game unless they start dancing around letting the other win.

W FlynnJun 26, 20171 votes

Wait jhin flowers can be sweeped just as easily as teemo shrooms or shaco boxes...

Also, sweeper may be "free", but losing out on being able to provide any vision for yourself or your teammates just to clear a Shaco's boxes or Teemo's shrooms is normally not gonna be a good trade off.

DrugsForRobotsJun 26, 20172 votes

True, but the anti-trap feature of Red Trinket is there because of Shaco and Teemo's traps. It was around long before Jhin.

Don't underestimate the Sweeping Lens being usable at a distance. Interestingly, all the LCS pros upgrade to Oracle's Alteration, usually asap. Evidently being able to scout at range (and thereby keep some ambiguity about your position) is less valuable that just clearing all any and all wards you come across.

EvewynnJun 25, 20173 votes

Probably in the minority, but I prefer this to stay. They die so quickly in the open and you can just walk away from them to stop any more damage.

rtbf225618241Jun 25, 20174 votes

That really depends on how much damage you do and how tanky you are.

He can ambush you and confuse you into taking extra damage for no reason.

55976771DEL2Jun 25, 20172 votes

Shaco Why so serious?

XJochumXJun 25, 20171 votes

i second this, and have asked myself the exact same question multiple times by now

Iźuku MidoriyaJun 25, 20171 votes

The code on shaco boxes has always been weird, especially in bushes and anything to do with them. Watched a video where boxes were getting revealed inside them from pinkwards on the outside and not the other way around and just a bunch of stuff. They also dont proc some items like spell thiefs which is odd

Tyto MorsJun 25, 20171 votes

wanna make them tankier/healthier, so they dont die in half a hit mid game and onwards? they also literally fear you away from them(or atleast you dont continue to walk towards them while feared). make them also able to proc thunder lords.