Every meta where Lee Sin sucks in has turned out to be even more terrible.

BluePolarizer·May 8, 2016·9 votes·1,357 views

If you think about it, it's true:

In season 4, Lee Sin was good and most of the time you could play alot of champs. In season 5, Lee Sin was good even in the Cinderhulk meta, until first Sated Devourer then Juggernauts, and he fell off the map. In season 6, Lee Sin was never good, and neither was the jungle meta going from Mundo/Volibear only to Yi/Shyvana/Xin only to Nidalee/Graves/Kindred only.

Lee Sin is like a barometer. If he sucks, then that likely means even more OP champs are around or that the jungle has become too unforgiving for even him.

21 Comments

PDE5 InhibMay 8, 20167 votes

Lee Sin doesn't suck right now at all. It's just that there are a couple of blatant OP champs that are picked every game because for some reason rito doesn't want to address them.

BluePolarizerMay 8, 20163 votes

thus he sucks compared to the OPs.

PDE5 InhibMay 8, 20165 votes

Just because something else is OP doesn't mean he sucks.

SeenanMay 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xs7FzQJL,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-05-08T23:12:19.549+0000)

Just because something else is OP doesn't mean he sucks.

This was proved in MSI, but atm, he was clearly overshadowed by...~3 jungle picks otherwise for the other 90% of tourny.

EDIT: Then again, it was a super pro playing him

PDE5 InhibMay 9, 20162 votes

There are a lot of viable junglers. The problem is that there are also OP ones that you can't ban because there are also OP mages after the rework. So you can't ban the OP junglers and play the viable ones without being at a disadvantage. I don't even care that Lee Sin is shadowed out by them, though, because he has shadowed everyone else out of the jg for how long. I can't even ban secret OP champs like Mao anymore in my games. I've never been someone to want 5 bans per side, but with rito's bullshit balancing, I would gladly take 5 bans each.

Envoy of DeathMay 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xs7FzQJL,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-09T02:16:42.392+0000)

There are a lot of viable junglers. The problem is that there are also OP ones that you can't ban because there are also OP mages after the rework. So you can't ban the OP junglers and play the viable ones without being at a disadvantage. I don't even care that Lee Sin is shadowed out by them, though, because he has shadowed everyone else out of the jg for how long. I can't even ban secret OP champs like Mao anymore in my games. I've never been someone to want 5 bans per side, but with rito's bullshit balancing, I would gladly take 5 bans each.

mao "secretly" OP, u fucking wut m8?

PDE5 InhibMay 13, 20161 votes

Lol yeah, but his play rate is pretty low at my elo.

deadlychuckMay 8, 20161 votes

It makes sense and leads you to believe even more strongly that riot's philosophy with jungle balance has used lee sin as the baseline... which is kind of sad.

BornAgainVirginMay 8, 20161 votes

yea i'll bet the balance team uses leona, thresh, sona, kat, annie, liss, zyra, renekton, garen, alistar, malphite, yi, riven, lee sin, udyr, yasuo, and zed as baselines. that totally random just out-of-the-blue kat buff should speak for itself. for adc maybe ashe, lucian, and sivir but not too sure. renekton and leona are pretty obvious.

DorkunedAurasMay 9, 20161 votes

Except kat was indeed weak, and she's not exactly dominant even after the buff, which means it was probably not a bad idea.

deadlychuckMay 9, 20161 votes

I'm not actually saying that they use them as such. I'm joking that it feels like they do when such a coincidence occurs.

ChargeItDownMidMay 8, 20161 votes

[deleted]

BluePolarizerMay 8, 20161 votes

uh, season 3 was the season of Kha'Zix and full tank Rengar jungle too though.

It wasn't Lee Sin/Elise only.

Vistha KaiMay 8, 20161 votes

While there are only 2 junglers (Shaco and Eve, because fuck invisibility without being able to buy wards early) I hate facing more than Lee, I feel you may be onto something.

MunchCrunchLunchMay 9, 20161 votes

at least he gets picked and sees some success still. unlike some others that nnever get picked

BluePolarizerMay 9, 20161 votes

he's arguably terrible outside of challenger level 5v5 and pro play.

MunchCrunchLunchMay 9, 20162 votes

on average maybe but i mean even here in silver i see good lee sins its not uncommon. if people learn a champion they can play it at a high level despite their elo.

BluePolarizerMay 9, 20161 votes

You can counterplay Lee Sin somewhat. There's just zero counterplay to Kindred right now. Strategically she fills Lee Sin's niche, but with superior scaling, superior mobility (not tied to warding or hitting something) and arguably equal early game.

MunchCrunchLunchMay 9, 20161 votes

yeah kindred hard to deal with. I mean I just played him and dominated. and I only played kindred a handful of times. i go warrior not devourer. it works great. you can build anything on him hes just really pure damage machine with great teamfighting. certainly too strong. he is really easy to farm. has strong ganks. great early game damage. sustain with W passive. falls off but not too hard later.

there isn't much bad to say about kindred. he'd be stronger if he had an ezreal blink but lol.

I mean botrk and passive I had some 18% of targets current health on hit. i took baron down so fast.

SasogwaMay 9, 20161 votes

Tbh devourer junglers have never been dominating as in dominating the competitive scene (which is obviously fine since it would be hella broken if they did)