The game is unplayable for support secondaries.

BluePolarizer·Jan 20, 2016·167 votes·9,800 views

I have to queue as jungle/top or jungle/mid (even though me queing as jungle/mid is essentially jungle or feed) because if I put support anywhere near my selections, I get stuffed into support every single game. I have not rolled jungle for 5 games in a row including dodges. If you check my match record, I have played FAR more support than jungle because I've been rolling support all the time.

All this system is doing is forcing those who are willing to support but are not exclusively support players to either not put support, become exclusively support players or to troll their teams.

I know there are alot of threads on this but I don't think this issue is receiving the attention it should.

231 Comments

TheLittlestLuluJan 20, 201677 votes

what a time to be a support main

BluePolarizerJan 20, 201628 votes

I play alot of Lulu support as well, but it gets old after the 5th game in a row.

JQKAndreiJan 20, 20169 votes

find a duo adc, you'll like support more if you're with a friend, you can also trade with him if he gets jungle.

you can jungle/sup and he adc/jungle.

AbyssphereJan 20, 20164 votes

{quoted}

find a duo adc, you'll like support more if you're with a friend, you can also trade with him if he gets jungle.

you can jungle/sup and he adc/jungle.

I think anything gets old after 5 games in a row, though. I play duo bot all the time with my boyfriend but I'm not sure I could stomach 5 games of that without a break in a solo lane or the jungle.

JQKAndreiJan 20, 20162 votes

switch roles then :P

AbyssphereJan 20, 20163 votes

{quoted}

switch roles then :P

That's exactly the point! This guy -has- to stop putting down secondary supp/fill because if he doesn't, he'll never get to switch roles. It's a silly system.

It Hertz When IPJan 20, 20162 votes

I C Wat U Did There

SohleksJan 20, 201639 votes

This is a legitimate problem at times that'll only get worsened if these people give up support secondary permanently or at least part of the time.

It's really not fair people who are willing to play support some of the time have to do it very very often to the point they dislike and start gaming the system because some players rather not have to fill ever at all instead of rarely.

Design of the system is contrived and ultimately broken.

There should be a hidden score on your account tracking recent assignments. IMO it would be fair if secondary role pick never exceeded 50% recent selection in a 4 or 6 game span, or for fill pickers if a particular role doesn't exceed 25% recent selection in an 8 game span. The experience of these players matter too. They didn't choose to opt in as a support main.

Of course if this was done Riot couldn't exploit support secondary players to cover the queue times of the system.

You already deleted the advantage fill players had learning to be effectively versatile for the teams they had in the old draft ranked system. And this is how you reward them. No advantage except queue times, while two trick carries received the perfect system.

Yes Riot, a majority of the ranked players are happy now by gaming the system by selecting their main / then most popular role. They're exploiting certain other types of players. Stacking larger queue times for everyone, especially themselves.

LaserDeathBladeJan 20, 201615 votes

This matchmaker is like an abusive friend

I put my secondary as 'fill' because usually I don't mind filling, but I just get matched as Support every damn game.

So naturally I don't put fill anymore, which probably adds to the problem but I can only stand so many games as Support in a row.

DarkRitualJan 20, 20162 votes

If you put fill as secondary, expect to be put as fill-support often. If you get matched with people who share your primary role, and Support is the only one without a person who wants it most, guess what? Its pretty simple logic.

clleshJan 20, 20163 votes

does this simple logic work when your primary is support, and secondary is mid.... but you are still not getting support role.... because then logically it tells me they system is broken and not working as intended

PoisonedAirJan 20, 201611 votes

Now you are all crying for main supports. Now you will understand how important we are. Muhehehehehe

DarkRitualJan 20, 20165 votes

We are saviors. We are valuable. Yet still we are underappreciated.

TussJan 20, 20164 votes

Support mains always show up in droves for threads like this, yet it took over ten minutes sometimes in Teambuilder for one to show up.

BluePolarizerJan 20, 20163 votes

I enjoy supporting but I really enjoy jungling. So that's like me saying "My favorite is strawberry, but I also like a little vanilla" and the store owner saying "OK here is 50 gallons of vanilla fuk your strawberry."

ParoeJan 20, 20168 votes

the simple answer: Dont put support as your secondary.

BluePolarizerJan 20, 20164 votes

yep I hate to do that but looks like that has to be done. Even putting jungle/top is not a guarantee of getting jungle so now I have to troll my team by putting jungle/mid.

ParoeJan 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

yep I hate to do that but looks like that has to be done. Even putting jungle/top is not a guarantee of getting jungle so now I have to troll my team by putting jungle/mid.

How is that a troll? If you want a role a lot of the time you need to game the system; it WILL pair you with a team.

All youre doing is using the system so you dont get support 9/10 times. I know; im a top primary support secondary. I get support 90% of the time so far.

BluePolarizerJan 20, 20164 votes

I can't mid so it's basically jungle or feed for me. I can sort of top but I get rolled TOP MORE THAN JUNGLE.

ParoeJan 20, 20167 votes

{quoted}

I can't mid so it's basically jungle or feed for me. I can sort of top but I get rolled TOP MORE THAN JUNGLE.

Who do you play jungle, usually?

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b4JZNvaE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-20T08:58:36.798+0000)

Yeah, I found that to be rather annoying. Support secondary puts me support about 90% of the time. I don't understand why they even use the word "primary" to describe a role, in my experience I don't get it anymore often than whatever I have as secondary.

The system automagically fills spots with primaries first. If there are no primaries for a spot within a certain time limit, it goes to secondary. Support primaries are a rare breed because they make or break games and are rarely rewarded for it - that 69/0/3 jinx who just "carried"? During the lane phase just who do you think set up all the feeding kills that let jinx snowball into a 5 minute infinity edge?

BluePolarizerJan 20, 20163 votes

this is champion independent. i can farm well and 1v1 in lane but that's only a small part of playing top lane. when I jungle I can shut down the micro part of my brain and focus on strategy while if I play top I have to be focused on 1v1ing instead of watching the map.

clleshJan 20, 20163 votes

i think support primary's are a rare breed only to those who don't play them.... all the support mains i know seem to be in the same boat, we queue up as support primary and dont get it...

even when the teambuilder was around i would be waiting in queue for an adc or a jg most times....

i think this queue is just not working as intended

ChatillonJan 20, 20162 votes

I put supp as my primary and i don't get it as often i did in blind

LaserDeathBladeJan 20, 201626 votes

That's not really a long term solution for the system though

There's a lot of players like me who might not mind filling, but if I'm matched into Support over 90% of the time I'm obviously not going to put fill secondary anymore which drives up queue times for everyone.

XicashinaJan 20, 20166 votes

I see alot of these articles which is really weird. I keep on queueing as Support/Jungle, and I get jg over half of the time.

HerMisterFortuneJan 20, 20166 votes

I main support and pick it first and am lucky to get it half the time. Its broken to require 2 rolls. Select the roll you want to play, queue, wait until a lobby is found. I'm tired of playing other rolls i hate/suck at because it requires 2 picks.

dunkeroniJan 20, 20162 votes

I have the same problem. I oftentimes find it is hard to get support role, and I'm forced into the mid lane (my secondary) where I will most likely be countered by a Zed.

TokyoGhostJan 20, 20165 votes

how to get desired role? Put mid as secondary. How to get mid? you don't get mid.

ScramrailJan 20, 20164 votes

Honestly they should give us the option to only queue as one role. I would deal with longer queue times if it meant I got to play the role I want every game.

DarkRitualJan 20, 20161 votes

You mean, old Teambuilder? The one they are getting rid of because it was a terrible experience?

FaceplowJan 20, 20167 votes

It's a terrible experience because:

You got to play the champ you wanted? You got to play the role you wanted? You got to see your team and either accept or decline to play the team comp?

A good quality game experience is worth a 10-15 minute wait (although I never had to wait longer than 3 minutes as far as I can recall.) Games now aren't even close between teams, it's an automatic 20 /ff spam because one of the teams are up 30 kills. I've yet to play a single Draft game, since this new release, that was even remotely close between the teams. There's never been a match that was like, WOW what an intense game! It's just been terrible experience so far for me personally. Honestly, I'm kind of tired of teams just giving up after 10 minutes (not just my teams, but it happens with the enemy team too.)

I never had any of these crazy wait times that people keep ranting about and I played an insane amount of TB, at every position, almost exclusively with a few ARAM games in between to break the cycle. But regardless even if I had to wait for my role/champ/quality game, I'd be more than happy to wait.

clleshJan 20, 20163 votes

i miss teambuilder

where i could queue up as sona support.... and play sona support

nami tfJan 20, 20164 votes

I personally would like the option of 'fill excluding X'. I want to try my luck at any role sometimes, but there are some I just avoid entirely for skill purposes (jungle, in my case). Maybe that could be the improvement it needs.

Too old for thisJan 20, 20164 votes

This is quite normal. I am a support main so I am looking forward for some game time tonight when I get home from work.

In order for the system to assemble groups ASAP it looks through the the bracket (bronze, silver, gold etc.) and looks for all 5 primary positions. It SHOULD be working on first come first served basis. This means that if both you and me have queued as mid mains and X as secondary role but you queued before me you will be placed in a group which required a mid laner and if there are no current groups missing a mid laner I will be given my secondary role and added to the first team in the queue which reacquires that role. However, if there are more people targeting the same primary role while at the same time a certain role requests as primary are lacking then the system will cover those "wholes" with those players who chose the missing role as their secondary one.

I really tried to explain from coding point of view how I think this dynamic queue will work but after a wall of text I decided that it is just too confusing. It is also pointless to go into that explanation because there is a fair chance that I am wrong so I decided not to act all smart and all knowing. The first bit I wrote above should be correct (but also rather obvious). Just wanted to point out that what you are experiencing is to be expected if your secondary role is vastly missed across the teams.

DarkRitualJan 20, 20162 votes

And here I am getting annoyed when I DON'T get support when I queue as Support primary ADC secondary.

Part of the CORE problem is people don't respect the Support role. No matchmaking system will fix that problem. The problem lies with the community and their view of the support role. There needs to be some focus on their importance, otherwise those views will not go away.

clleshJan 20, 20162 votes

man, im a support main..... main as in i want to only play support... i put in suppot as my primary each time, and as secondary ive tried putting in mid because its suppose to be popular....

i have gotten mid for each of the last 3 normal games i have tried to play... i dont know how to cs.... im bad in a duel, i dont actually want to play mid...

what else i think when i'm getting put in mid, i think they are lowering the mmr i am playing in, because each time i will be facing a team that seems to have an afk for a while, or someone who is even worse than me, or is maybe trolling... oh and a diamond or plat thrown in for some reason with all the silvers and bronze, and under lv 30 players

there will be a support main playing support, i will be a primary support who didnt get support, and then when i mention it in chat, often times someone else will say they wanted support as well....

i miss teambuilder

Stardew ValleyJan 20, 20162 votes

If you're getting tired of support, then put your secondary as the other roles. Even if they're not your best roles, you'll probably get better and it won't be as boring.

Rinky DinkyJan 20, 20162 votes

There isn't much they can do about that. There will always be more open slots for supports.

BluePolarizerJan 20, 20162 votes

Yes there is. Let you have a "secondary priority" score from 1 to 10. If you have 10, you are guaranteed to get your role. If you have 1, you fill whichever role is open so theoretically 50/50. Every 2 points gives you +10% priority to your primary role until 10 points where you are guaranteed your primary role regardless of the actual probability even if it takes you longer in queue. Every time you roll your secondary, you get +2 points.

This way it will force the system to give you your primary roll at least some of the time (regardless of queue numbers), rather than none of the time.

Queefer MadnessJan 20, 20162 votes

Support is as strong as ever in season 6, players should honestly be lining up for it. It's not how it used to be where you'd have your carry (kat) and that's it you win. More than ever, I've been finding myself able to literally carry games as a support with cc, vision, timers, commands, etc. Winning 18 of 20 playing only support isn't a coincidence, I refuse to believe that :p

Envy SinJan 20, 20162 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8N5yTdGhIU

That is all.

FioraWillCarryJan 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I have to queue as jungle/top or jungle/mid (even though me queing as jungle/mid is essentially jungle or feed) because if I put support anywhere near my selections, I get stuffed into support every single game. I have not rolled jungle for 5 games in a row including dodges. If you check my match record, I have played FAR more support than jungle because I've been rolling support all the time.

All this system is doing is forcing those who are willing to support but are not exclusively support players to either not put support, become exclusively support players or to troll their teams.

I know there are alot of threads on this but I don't think this issue is receiving the attention it should.

Well they disabled the Queue now so we're back to shouting out lanes in the lobby. Smile now.....

StephenizgodJan 21, 20162 votes

I accept it now, i will be a Challenger Support Main by the time its over.

DJ Hatsune MikuJan 21, 20162 votes

Support has historically been regarded as one of the worst roles to carry as by the community. This is, obviously, very false, but the idea that you have to play a high damage 'carry' champion to get out of 'elo hell' is thoroughly etched into the mindset of nearly every League player. Because of this, nearly everyone who thinks they're only held back by the fact they can't get mid Ahri or w/e the fotm is are queing up has mid/top or mid/jungle or w/e combo suits their line of reasoning best for the time being. I imagine it'll smooth out as time passes on, since everyone wants to carry their promos, but given that support is among the least played roles it's probably always going to be the easiest to get.

WngNutJan 21, 20162 votes

Wish I was that lucky, I main support but end up in other roles most of the time because of whatever my secondary is...

CentrifuzeJan 21, 20162 votes

{quoted} All this system is doing is forcing those who are willing to support but are not exclusively support players to either not put support, become exclusively support players or to troll their teams.

You're making this sound as if you only ever get to choose your roles ONE TIME, and then you're stuck with that for eternity. You can change your desired lanes between games. One time, pick support. Next time, don't make it an option.

There's no flaw here, other than what your perception is of how this system is "supposed to function".

Lucky IccyJan 20, 20161 votes

So question, there are five roles a game and 1 of them is support, so doesnt that mean for every guy getting "Screwed" playing support there are 4 not stuck in that role? so by default the rate of which players OVERALL can be stuck in support is no bigger than 20% ever?

KaisadiIIaJan 20, 20162 votes

That would be in a world were everybody queued as X/supp. But here, if I queue as mid/top and you queue as fill, and we get paired multiple times together, you will probably never get mid because it's my primary role, and top is my secondary, meanwhile you've accepted to play in any role you are needed, which will always be (in this case) adc, jung or supp. Now add more people queuing as top/jung, adc/mid and the like and you'll realize that, if you give the system the chance to give you supp, it will do so most times. It's a fundamental flaw with the current system because "fill" is not "I want to play a bit on every role", but instead "I will fill the least popular role(s)".

Gregor GysiJan 20, 20161 votes

There is a simple practical solution: take jungle->mid if you want to jungle, you will never get mid. Take Sup->mid if you want to support, you will never get mid.

clleshJan 20, 20162 votes

dosent work... support primary mid secondary, i cant get support role