Do not match us immediately with the players we have reported.

BluePolarizer·Apr 24, 2015·175 votes·4,913 views

If I reported a player, I probably don't want to play with them, at least for the next match. Can we do something about not getting matched 2 games in a row with people we report?

117 Comments

Sona PingApr 24, 201532 votes

Yes, we can. Simply go get a cup of coffee or something before entering another queue.

KrigjerApr 24, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kZ4qAXAp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-24T15:38:21.794+0000)

Yes, we can. Simply go get a cup of coffee or something before entering another queue.

As rare as it is, it still happens even after waiting.

I played Leona support with an apc Annie, and she blamed me for every mistake, whether it was actually my fault or hers. I waited five minutes, queued again and got the same player, and she played Annie apc again. fml.

GavranApr 24, 20156 votes

Dodge. It's only 5 minutes unless you've been abusing the option.

KrigjerApr 24, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Dodge. It's only 5 minutes unless you've been abusing the option.

Personally I've never dodged a game and I don't plan to start.

I don't agree that players you report should be blocked from being matched with you again because I can see that being abused. I'm just pointing out that it CAN happen.

LsayuApr 24, 20153 votes

You don't plan to start but you plan on making entire matchmaking suit your whims, because you don't plan on dodging.

KrigjerApr 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You don't plan to start but you plan on making entire matchmaking suit your whims, because you don't plan on dodging.

What?

I don't like the fact that I played with a person that blamed me for their mistakes, and took a small break to get something to eat, and when I queued up again, I got the same person on my team. I had high hopes that this game would work out better for us, so I didn't dodge. I have dodged TWICE, because a friend logged in as I was in champselect and I wanted to play with them. I've never dodged because I didn't like a comp or because I was getting trolled, even when my gut told me that I should. Like I said, I have high hopes and prefer to believe in my teammates.

My reason for posting was to make it clear that it's possible to take a break for a few minutes and still get the same people. 'make matchmaking suit my whims' what does that even mean in context to what I said

LsayuApr 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Personally I've never dodged a game and I don't plan to start.

KrigjerApr 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

:>

lol. If you want to get me on semantics, okay.

LsayuApr 24, 20151 votes

Yeah, your semantics challenjour! xD Clear as day!

XxKushyxXApr 24, 20152 votes

you acted like he as being selfish..what he was talking about is a real problem that happens to people on a daily basis.

LsayuMay 6, 20151 votes

It doesn't matter how real the problem is if the only solution people post over and over and over again is something that is not only ineffective, but abusable and bad overall. It's a real problem there is no practical solution to, because the consequence of tinkering with it is sacrificing what the system is for - matching 2 teams of skill as equal as possible.

There is no system fast enough that can detect whether your report is false or not, even when they introduce the new less-than-1-hour feedback from reports. If it doesn't depend on report's accuracy, then it's pointless and abusable to no end.

And yes, asking for the whole match making system to change for you not to face people you don't want to play with is not very far from selfish, I just put it more harshly than I should have.

FirstSergeantBimApr 24, 20158 votes

I'm not going to dodge my promotional series and dodge can't be the answer to everything. The man has a point and it's a good one.

As rare as it is it still happens even after waiting

If I run into cancer, I don't want to ever see it again and while my lone report shouldn't have the power to penalize that player, it should have the power to protect me from toxicity.

KarlyrApr 24, 20154 votes

You should still dodge while being in your promos, seriously. It doesn't affect your MMR at all. So you have the choice,

losing a game, your series, your MMR and your time OR losing your series.

Your LPs will be at 1 loss under your promos if you dodge instead of 2 games under if you lose without dodging.

your move.

JxiApr 27, 20152 votes

ORRRRRRR Riot can stop us being paired with people we've reported. Yes, it's really that simple!

KarlyrApr 27, 20153 votes

It's abusable. That's the point. People would start reporting people who had a bad game just to be sure not being matched with them. This would cause a whole slew of false reports clogging up the report program for absolutely nothing.

JxiApr 27, 20153 votes

In most games, if you abuse the report system, you get punished. Riot should do the same.

Honestly, I cannot see a negative coming from this. We stop getting paired with feeders, AFKs and people who call our mothers prostitutes in our ranked matches and the quality of reports goes up because people stop reporting people for either no reason, or a bullshit reason.

KarlyrApr 27, 20153 votes

And once again, how do you punish someone for using the system. If the guy was bad and just a little offensive (to a point where most people would find it nothing alarming), how can you accuse someone of "abusing the system" for using a tool that is suppose to analyse his chat logs.

You can't punish someone for thinking X person was offensive. You'd have to be able to divide properly the 2 situations and you can't really do that. And even if you can, you'd have to (once again) analyse chat logs and get back into the tribunal issue being overloaded (this is the reason why RIOT hasn't brought back the tribunal yet. They want it to be autosuffisant (being able to treat reports as fast as they get them)

Giving a fixed number of reports per game ? Now you have the problem where a whole game is just full of rager and you can only report X number of them.

You just can't impose a system that would add this functionnality without breaking the actual report system.

Anyway, I'm not there to convince you this is not a good idea. This is the stand point of what I read from RIOT a few month (maybe years) back.

T RexHasLongLegsApr 24, 20152 votes

I guess that is an option, but I'm curious why it should be needed. Report for unskilled and you don't get paired would make sense. They can't be banned or punished for it and you don't get them on your team or the other team so it doesn't create an advantage for you. At worst this would have the impact of making people who report often take longer to find a game since it would be matching people they reported with ones who had not reported the person and it might take a while to find a game that had no one w/ your reports in it if you spammed report too much. Maybe I'm just being lazy and not looking for loop holes but I don't see how this would be abused. Can you fill me in with where you see a problem?

GroundRuleDoubleApr 24, 201511 votes

The problem with this is that if someone played terribly, you can just report him so you're not matched with him again. This would create TONS of false reports. People would get reported every game for playing poorly just so you wouldn't have to be on their team again.

T RexHasLongLegsApr 24, 20152 votes

Um but if you report for unskilled they can't be banned or punished for it and it could just not match you with them so it wouldn't change anything since they wouldn't be on the other team or your team so you don't get an advantage.

GroundRuleDoubleApr 24, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=T RexHasLongLegs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kZ4qAXAp,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-04-24T20:55:21.115+0000)

Um but if you report for unskilled they can't be banned or punished for it and it could just not match you with them so it wouldn't change anything since they wouldn't be on the other team or your team so you don't get an advantage.

Reporting for unskilled can lower their MMR.

Zair UmbrasApr 24, 20152 votes

That hasn't actually been confirmed or denied. The only thing we know is that if you report for unskilled, you won't play with them for a while, which is a known fact. HOWEVER, if you report some one for actually being Verbally abusive, Feeding, Griefing, or an actual bannable offense, it will still put you with that person, which makes no sense at all. It makes it to where people would rather report them for unskilled so they won't have to see them rather than reporting them for their horrendously toxic attitude.

GroundRuleDoubleApr 24, 20152 votes

You're right. I should have said "it could lower their MMR" since that's the rumor. Also, do you have a source for the fact that you won't play them for a while? I've never heard that. If that's the case, then that's the answer to the OPs problem.

AxlStreamApr 25, 20152 votes

But if they played terrible... shouldn't they get a lower MMR? I don't get your point...

GroundRuleDoubleApr 25, 20152 votes

There's a difference between playing terrible and playing just bad enough (or not a style you like). People would get reported for this for not playing a way that you like, not necessarily bad.

masterdragon481Apr 25, 20151 votes

It doesn't have to be a permanent thing, the OP never said it was. The effect could last for X number of hours, ensuring that you aren't consecutively getting screwed over by the same.......lets go with toxic player.

GroundRuleDoubleApr 27, 20151 votes

But if someone played bad, you'd just report them so you don't have to be no their team again. It could create lots of false reports.

masterdragon481Apr 27, 20151 votes

Like I said, it doesn't have to be permanent. More specifically, it could be for a relatively small amount of time. It could just be "don't match me with him for several hours." This would prevent repeat losses due to getting matched with him in your current league playing session. After the report has been looked at and the player has had time to correct their behavior, enough time will have passed that the player won't be on your "don't match me with him" list.

However, thinking a little harder, I do see your point where more false reports are going to be made, simply because there would be an incentive to actually report someone now.

I think a better solution would be for match making to ACTIVELY match you with different people in consecutive games. As far as I am aware, it is simply random. The problem the OP is talking about could be avoid if, assuming solo queue, I got 9 different players in the game every game I queued in from game to game. To be more explicit, If i have summoners named summoner 1 through summoner 9 in my first game, I don't want to see ANY of them in my second game (I want to see summoner 10 through 19). In my third game, I better not see summoners 10 - 19. This way, I am at least guaranteeing that I only get the same toxic players every other game.

BeatzBoyFTWApr 24, 20153 votes

Don't touch the Play button for 5 minutes?

MVDuneCatsApr 24, 20153 votes

Toxic players already lead to people playing the game less. This is a short term work around, but it's not an ideal solution.

BluePolarizerApr 24, 20153 votes

waited 3 minutes, by luck got matched with them. i don't want that sort of bad luck.

Skilled TheoryApr 24, 20152 votes

Common sense would tell you to wait 5 minutes before you re-queue if you don't want to get matched with said players. Also, they don't want to do that because in high elo players can essentially block players they don't want to be matched up with for whatever reason.

Hinro HonatoApr 24, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Skilled Theory,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kZ4qAXAp,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-04-24T16:41:35.976+0000)

Common sense would tell you to wait 5 minutes before you re-queue if you don't want to get matched with said players.

Um I waited a day and got matched with the same player again. First they were on the enemy team abusing the hell out of the sion bug and yesterday they were on my team x.x The luck is odd.

LsayuApr 24, 20152 votes

You know the odds of that happening right?

Hinro HonatoApr 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You know the odds of that happening right?

Yup. Despite it being near impossible there he was. If it happens again I'm pretty sure I got a stalker.

HeWolfApr 24, 20151 votes

If you're not in the mood to start from zero the next game is your problem. Is not Riot's duty to manage your last game's conditions. This is a game and it's made to have fun, and this would give a lot of people a reason to report everyone everytime they lose.

This is my opinion, I wouldn't do it.

SerBlaiseApr 24, 20154 votes

The thing is, I'm usually willing to 'start from zero'. In fact i think I rarely leave 'zero' (meaning zero toxicity). However i don't believe the people I report are capable of starting from zero. I wouldn't be upvoting this post if I had not had bad experiences where I join the next game lobby and someone is already flaming me before the game even starts because of what happened last game. It has nothing to do with my ability to manage anything. It has to do with the other person, period.

And the fact that I am reporting them is directly linked to the fact that I don't want to play with someone who I believe is toxic. Tribunal's methodology (back when it existed) was that if you thought the behavior you were judging would upset YOU in game and toxically affect YOU, then you should vote to punish. I think OP's idea would be an extension of that philosophy.

HeWolfApr 24, 20154 votes

Easily abusable, period.

GavranApr 24, 20152 votes

For a tiny largely irrelevant subset of the population at the Challenger/Master levels.

It's still worth making it not work at those levels for their sake, but it's nowhere near not worth doing because they can abuse it.

LsayuMay 6, 20151 votes

The thing is it's not the tiny population of Challenger/Masters, it's the fact that it's wrong in principle to have such biased and potentially very VERY cumbersome tweaks on matchmaking queues. There are two things match-making should do: 1) be random; 2) match two teams with skill as equal as possible. Any tweaking involving player behavior in this equation messes with 1), and makes 2) less optimal.

GavranMay 7, 20151 votes

You're assuming matchmaking's primary purpose is to determine which team has the best players. I disagree with that premise. I believe matchmaking's primary purpose should be to make a fun match. Balanced as well as possible is one thing that furthers that goal, but it is not the only one, nor is it sacred if a better solution comes along. In this case, getting matched with a horrible troll* twice in a row is going to be significantly less fun than a slight imbalance.

*Not that everyone you report is a horrible troll, nor even that everyone who deserves to be reported for their behaviour in game A is going to deserve to be reported in game B.

LsayuMay 7, 20151 votes

determine which team has the best players.

You mean determine balance between two teams based solely on playing skill? Absolutely. (which team has best players is a harsh way to put it and not really precise but that's assuming you meant what I said).

The reason ironically is similar to the one why people who play poorly should not be banned, because playing skill has nothing to do with attitude, and playing poorly is not a punishable offense, because another system already regulates it: MMR. Similarly, positive attitude is a welcome occurrence, but should not affect your rank because this is not league of fun, and fun should not directly factor how you're matched, and indirectly how you're ranked. And again for similar reasons the prisoners island solution for bad attitude is not good because it affects ranked system too much.

Sorry for putting it so crudely, I know you didn't say things like "being fun should be rewarded in ranks", but what you said did implicate that fun, I.e. whether you're likely to experience positive attitude in game from other players should factor in the matchmaking, and not only skill. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, where would all the hot potatoes (I.e. players who are currently pissed and are raging or trolling) end up in matchmaking? Probably in circle and get back to you (I.e. you'd get someone else's hot potato).

GavranMay 7, 20151 votes

Honestly, to me, the measuring of skill in League is only useful in that unbalanced games are less fun for everyone involved. That's why I don't play Ranked - increased bad attitudes, no other gain. I suppose catering to just me would be bad for business though. :p There are a lot of people that have an unhealthy fixation with measuring their skill (and a lot with a healthy interest in it, too.) I wouldn't at all object to a more "fun" person getting Challenger for it - I mean it'd be sort of stupid, but I don't have actually have a problem with it. But a more fun person getting matched against more skilled people just sounds like a way to ruin a fun person lol.

I don't know, honestly. The people that ruin games are a complicated problem, especially since a lot of Riot's research shows that relatively few people ruin games all the time. Honestly, it's a bit totalitarian, but if I had total control I'd consider something like mandatory timeouts after losses, and longer breaks after games that were indicative of a lot of toxicity on your team. I dunno though, this is also why I'm not in charge of decisions like that. Would piss a lot of people off if it was that way, but I feel like giving everyone a chance to cool down all the time would go a long way too.

LsayuMay 11, 20151 votes

But a more fun person getting matched against more skilled people just sounds like a way to ruin a fun person lol.

Exactly lol, that would totally suck XD. That's why the reward mechanism for attitude is separated entirely from ranked system (will be when it gets implemented). Also good attitude is already rewarded in terms or ranked indirectly, by shifting games where you bring the best out of team where others would rage in your favor.

Did you watch that lecture that Lyte gave a while ago? It clarified a lot of things for me, like how the behavior looks like for the majority of players and why just banning players doesn't work or making punishments simply more harsh in magnitude doesn't work in big picture. It's interesting, you should check it out.

Zair UmbrasApr 24, 20151 votes

Except you can report some one for Unskilled and get the exact same thing happening. You can report your entire team for unskilled and you won't see them again for at least a few games. There's no reason at all that reporting some one who's being toxic won't prevent them from being in your next game and there's a difference between Blocking and Muting, surprisingly enough. Muting stops you from seeing their chat. Blocking is what you have to do after the game is over.

Honestly, there's no logical reason why reporting some one for toxic behavior shouldn't do what reporting for unskilled does. It SHOULD stop you from playing with them for at least a couple of games, like what unskilled does. There's a lot of people who choose to report for unskilled to prevent them from being paired with that person and I know quite a few people who report their entire teams for unskilled every time they lose.

If some one is being toxic and you report them, you shouldn't be paired with them for a couple games.

GavranApr 24, 20152 votes

Unskilled reports do not do that.

Zair UmbrasApr 25, 20151 votes

That's... how it's always worked. It's meant to do that since it was created to avoid people from rage-reporting. They don't see the person and no actual tribunal case is made, thus wasting no one's time in the process.

GavranApr 25, 20153 votes

Unskilled reports do two things:

The data is saved so Riot can look at it if they're considering matchmaking tweaks. This is just metrics, background data, 0 direct effect on anything.
A lot of angry but dumb people use the report when they're mad. This doesn't do anything other than mess with Riot's metrics, and doesn't really help Riot either - people who use report options because they're mad soon end up making reports with no weight regardless of the option they choose.

BringYourOwnPumaMay 7, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kZ4qAXAp,comment-id=0007000100000000,timestamp=2015-04-25T02:27:21.661+0000)

That's... how it's always worked. It's meant to do that since it was created to avoid people from rage-reporting. They don't see the person and no actual tribunal case is made, thus wasting no one's time in the process.

Gavran is right.. unskilled doesnt punish or do anything beyond report the metric to riot.