Get ready everyone (Patch 9.15)

[{quoted}](name=Jng Account,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xnOfUrRJ,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-23T20:45:04.224+0000)

Not mechanical one, but it's literally counterplay.

i dont think you really understand what that word means.

a counterpick, a champions power curve, mechanical counterplay, strategic counterplay. these are all different concepts.

{quoted}

ok, lets try this again so maybe even you understand the point im trying to make.

max health % true damage is a mechanic in this game that by design can not be countered in itemization. its made in a way that you cant build against it like other forms of damage (physical countered by armor, magic countered by mr, flat true damage countered by health).

so the way this mechanic still remains fair from a gameplay perspective is, if you make it conditional.

% true damage is conditional through her passive, and it telegraphes her movement. it can be outpositioned in a way, that you can entirely deny her the true damage procs onto your champion by outpositioning her, and even by placing vitals inside walls where they are inaccessable to her. it creates a specific win condition for the champion that alters the way shes played and positions during a fight.

% true damage is conditional through the villainy passive. its restricted to a single specific person on the enemy team. this person is telegraphed to everyone, and no matter the champion that has the villainy mark, can be peeled for and protected by his allies to deny garen access to the villain. it creates a specific win condition for the champion that alters the way hes played and picks his targets.

now. if you removed these mechanics entirely from their kits, how would these champions suddenly play different?

well, fiora wouldnt try to hit you from specific angles. she wouldnt try to circle around you during fights and especially her ultimate, if it was say just a flat steroid like in vaynes case. it would fundamentally change how the champion plays.

its similar for garen. he would stop trying to actively single out and gun for the villain on the enemy team to maximize his carry potential, and would just try to fight whoever presented himself to him in melee range.

now if we just as a thought experiment deleted vaynes w from her kit. what except for becoming a weaker champion would change about her?

she would probably build critical strike items like the other marksmen, instead of stacking pure attack speed. but what about how she plays out fights would really change?

NOTHING

she would literally play exactly the same way she plays right now. she would just try to auto attack the closest person to her that she can safely auto attack. she would kite exactly the same way, and chose exactly the same targets.

how can you call her w passive conditional, when it doesnt even create a win condition that she has to play around and alters her playstile in some way? you cant. because its not conditional. a 3 hit passive on a ranged champion with a short cooldown auto attack reset doesnt create mechanical or strategic counterplay to the ability.

{quoted}

Your hatred for the champion is clouding your mind, my guy. First you forget what the word conditional means, now you don't know what a stat check champion is either?

there are only few ways to beat vayne.

do you outrange her? range is a stat.

do you win the damage race within her range? stat check.

are you able to reduce her stats in some way with abilities like wither?

when literally every fucking ability in her kit is a passive, or a "stat check harder" active like her ultimate, then it means the whole champion is a stat check champion, doesnt it?

{quoted}

Your hatred for the champion is clouding your mind, my guy. First you forget what the word conditional means, now you don't know what a stat check champion is either?

I know I'm coming into the middle of a discussion, but perhaps I could explain it more.

IMPO (In my personal opinion) Vayne was doing her job well enough without the 50% reduced cool-down buff on her R she got back in the 9.1 patch. Then, the fact that allows her to bypass the 3-hit requirement for her Silver Bolts was basically like giving me a paper cut and pouring lemon juice on it!

She was already able to melt Tanks and Juggernauts with the True Damage. So you should build Armor since you can't build Health against her, right? Nope! Guinsoo's also gives Total Armor-Pen! (Yes I know, it is based upon level, but it nonetheless exists) On top of the Last Whisper item ( or , take your pick) she is sure to have built. (I know, the Armor-Pen between the two items does not stack, and thanks to other changes, she may not build Guinsoo's anymore)

So, the two things that you are supposed to build to counter the things she offers, Physical Damage and True Damage, which are supposed to be counter-built via Armor and Health respectively, she renders BOTH of them moot! Her True Damage allows her to bypass high armor, and the Max HP% OF that True Damage allows her to bypass high health!

EDIT: Sorry, remembered that part of this was in a comment from a Riven post.

THIS is why she is often seen as a problem to Fighter and Tank players such as Critmaster here and myself.