My issue with the latest hybrid scaling trend in champion designs

La Bello··2 votes·792 views

Im cool with hybrid champ and all but please can you maybe investigate this little trend of giving making hybrid abilities with dual scaling.

an Akali who builds nothing but AD should not see a** INCREASE** in magic damage

Q:25 / 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 (+ 65% AD) (+ 50% AP) MAGIC DAMAGE P: Akali's next basic attack gains deals 39 - 180 (based on level) (+ 90%** bonus AD**) (+ 70% AP) bonus magic damage and restores

Kaisa to a lesser extent has the same problem going on imo which gives her access to the best items of any tree AND makes her AP build a tad bit overwhelming into the later stages of game.

Q: 112.5 / 152.125 / 193.75 / 234.375 / 275 (+ 87.5% bonus AD) (+ 100% AP) PHYSICAL DAMAGE W: 20 / 45 / 70 / 95 / 120 (+ 150% AD) (+ 60% AP) **MAGIC DAMAGE **

Tryndamere Spinning slash 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 (+ 130% bonus AD) (+ 100% AP) PHYSICAL damage. If you build MR to resist his Nashors/Lichbane then his E just hits all the harder (lets not even count Conqueror into this mess)

Please do not toss ratios around for fun and to just make it so every item is viable on a champion. Alternative build styles should have clear cut strengths and goals. If you cannot carve out a interesting dynamic playstyle then I think its okay to just remove alternative scalings all together like how you did with Evelynn Aatrox and Urgot and focus thier kits around one stat. Not every champion needs to have some sort of dual scaling especially if their kit is one-dimensional and there is no real room for a alternate style of play..

even to a non problematic degree I've felt like hybrid scaling is a mess sometimes

Katarina has AD ratio's but she really does not need them. AD Katarina is not a thing and IF AD Katarina is a thing then why is it simply trying to be a worse scaling version of normal AP Kata ? And dont give me the whole "she keeps ratios for gunblade" spiel because adding drastic changes to a champions kit JUST SO they can get mileage out of a measly 40 AD is pretty silly when you consider that those same changes eat a portion of thier power budget that could be meaningfully spent elsewhere.

Shaco is another champion who suffers from just a hodgepodge of ratio's littered around his kit. Now on shaco of old his AP ratios were very clearly on his two magic damage dealing abilities. Building AP would cause your backstab damage to be neglected. Now his ratios are all over the place. building magic damage gives you bigger crit backstabs and Two-shivs which are both physical! IT simply doesn't make much sense.

comapre this to an older champion design like Varus Varus.

Now AP Varus and AD Varus both have very unique and dynamic strengths. AP Varus plays around having very poor basic damage but EXTREMELY high burst by using his Corruption stacks and imploding them and AP Varus is particularly devastating to tanks making this option a viable niche pick. now full AD/Lethality Varus trades this for hard hitting physical poke more or less becoming a kind of AD version of Xerath to a degree If you build AD OR if you build AP you are clearly sacrificing something to GAIN something.

Shyvana when built AP playstyle turns from "Run at them and statcheck em to death" to "Rain down fiery death as a psuedo artillery mage during dragon form". Shyvana has AP Ratios but there is clear sacrifices made in effectiveness and a drastic change in overall playstyle. Now rather AP Shyvana is "viable" or not is completely up to you.

Sion AP Build focuses on burst from shield explode and Roar of the slayer. high AD build focuses on Onslaught and Decimating smash. Keyword here is SACRIFICE is happening each ability has its own gameplay and set up required. Sion is sacrificing his Q and R damage potential for more W and E potential. Theres a drastic difference in playstyle between lethality and AP Sion because each has its own strengths elsewhere.

anyways yeah thats all I wanted to bring up. It absolutely SUCKS trying to itemize against these hybrid abilities early and I think if Riot ever gets the chance they should pore over their champ pool and address all the "hybrid's" to make sure that the alternative build styles are meaningful(kinda like Crystal power/Weapon power system in Vainglory).

8 Comments

Hyquiem2 votes

I’m done. If someone complains about akali it’s fair to say they are more of a nerd then a do-er. If you haven’t played new akali. You can tell for a fact that champ has a ton of counterplay now your going to hate on her stats/ratios.

What

A

Nerd

La Bello1 votes

im moreso complaining that the Attack Damage Ratio is on her Q and passive when it should be exclusive to her E (which is physical) and 1rst half of R (which is also physical) in order to keep her damage types consistent. If she builds AD her PHYSICAL abilities should do more damage not her magical ones. I feel the same way about Kai'Sa too when it comes to her abilities.

move her AP Ratio off her Q and move the AD Ratio off of W. Building ABILITY POWER should not increase her PHYSICAL damage nuke and likewise building AD should not increase how hard her MAGIC damage nukes hit for.

I think its just very messy design otherwise and makes the character harder to itemize against.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Remove the part about Akali, and people can take your thread seriously. It's actually important that champions not be able to have 30% crit (Runaan's and Tryn's passive) while also dealing mainly magic damage through items, but physical damage with abilities.

There is no way to counter build against them, and since they're AA based there's no real way to counter play them either.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

I’m done. If someone complains about akali it’s fair to say they are more of a nerd then a do-er. If you haven’t played new akali. You can tell for a fact that champ has a ton of counterplay now your going to hate on her stats/ratios.

What

A

Nerd

Did you even read the thread? Or are you just whining? They have a valid point - with the advent of adaptive technology hybrid champions like Jax, and Akali should have their abilities simply BE adaptive.

TheWPhoenix1 votes

They are asking for a buff effectively, characters getting the choice to go full AD or full AP will be able to build to counter the enemies armor choices and therefore always have the upper hand in that regards, idk what you think they're saying lmao. Either way i think the issue with this would be it would allow for more counter styled builds but that means that akali would be very strong as she would be able to counter most builds the enemy team tries to throw at her.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Nah, OP has a point. Particularly in the cases where magic damage is applied via auto attacks, it's unfair.

Katarina is fine to have the contradictory scalin since her kit doesn't allow for prolonged time spent using autos.

But Kai'sa and Tryndamere, who both build crit chance on top of a bunch of magic on-hit, don't give you any option to counter build-- on top of the fact them being auto based means there's little room for counter-play as well.

Colton1471 votes

Ornn item 3070

Ornn has so many scalings.

The true build:

item 3027 item 3071 item 3047 item 3065 item 3742 item 3083

[sg-ahri-2]

Hyquiem1 votes

But still a lot of these hybrid champs can be stomped

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