The only Yasuo nerf I really want

AhmCha·Dec 1, 2016·170 votes·6,946 views

I've long since accepted that Yasuo will probably always remain the nuisance that he is, and that's whatever. Ten bans are close so it doesn't matter all that much.

At the same time there is a nerf that he does need. That whole blink outside of range if you ult under turret? I'm not even a novice at balance and even I can see that this is an unacceptable power for someone like Yasuo to have. If Yasuo wants to turret dive he should have to take the risk like the rest of us.

EDIT: Can some of you read what I'm writing please, and not get triggered just because you saw "Yasuo" and "nerf" in the same sentence? The only change I am asking for is for him to suffer the consequences of turret diving an enemy, just like everyone else.

192 Comments

Maximum MordeDec 1, 201655 votes

I just want them to replace most of his sound effects with a squeeze toy squeek.

AhmChaDec 1, 201644 votes

changes title "The only two nerfs Yasuo really needs"

Viktorious SayphDec 1, 20162 votes

Cant help but think Nasus

FantasySniperDec 2, 20167 votes

Yasuo Plushy Yasuo.

"Sleep is for the comfy."

morris1Dec 2, 20162 votes

Sleeping's the easy part.

EternalShredDec 2, 20162 votes

With some file changes i think it can be done

dominusxDec 1, 201615 votes

Only nerf he needs is to gut his windwall. if you nerf that u keep he champion fun but you dont make him cancer to deal with since one good wall can blovk off the enemy backline mid/late game

Bootleg GayDec 1, 201639 votes

{quoted}

Only nerf he needs is to gut his windwall. if you nerf that u keep he champion fun but you dont make him cancer to deal with since one good wall can blovk off the enemy backline mid/late game

All they need to do is reduce the duration from 5s to 3s. Makes it more of a reactionary ability than a precautionary one.

dominusxDec 1, 201616 votes

just dont allow it to block 10autoattacks and 5 spells. i play tons of yasuo because i like his kit (anythign with mobilty and dmg i play it xd) but his wall is PURE CANCER.I actually get mad sometimes when he randomly throws a wall and blocks shit like my W with kha or my slash with riven etc etc. other than thta idc that he can dash. ik the exact distance he travels and its a fixed distance so its not hard to guide the spells

SlythionDec 1, 20165 votes

What if it had a shield-factor where it can only block X amount of damage? This is an idea I came up with literally seconds ago but it would keep it a pretty strong ability to block cc while still limiting it in a way to make it not a "haha I'm unstoppable for 5 seconds" ultimate-powered regular ability

suicide cerealDec 1, 20162 votes

So like, a Braum door kinda thing maybe?

SlythionDec 1, 20166 votes

Kinda, but Braum negates the damage of the first attack it blocks and reduces the damage of everything else for the duration of the ability.

I was thinking Yasuo's wall could be something like:

E - Windwall: Blocks incoming missiles for X + (AD%) of damage for 4 seconds, dispersing when the limit is reached

unlisted aspects: Windwall will disperse when it's limit is reached, but will still block the last projectile (even if it dealt 300dmg to the wall with only 100dmg worth of shield left)

Crede777Dec 1, 20163 votes

What if the windwall was tied to his passive such that he can only cast it when his shield meter is full and casting it depletes his shield?

Sraeg2013Dec 1, 20167 votes

Considering you can proc his passive shield with a sneeze, that'd be one of the most idiotic gameplay designs yet.

But since this is a Yasuo circle-jerk thread, then anything is logical and sensible.

DoseqisDec 1, 20168 votes

I want the duration down, it should only block like 1-3 projectiles based on level, walling off 100% of an ADCs damage late game is pretty stupid

Sraeg2013Dec 1, 20164 votes

Yeah, we can't have anything that makes ADCs' lives harder.

SlythionDec 1, 20164 votes

we definitely can, but not in this fashion. Completely blocking 100% of an adc's output for 5 whole seconds in the late game is not a fair, balanced, enjoyable, or reasonable way to go about things.

We need nerfs to tackle the problem with adcs as a whole, not a cheese-tactic ability to complete negate them

sixthsDec 1, 20165 votes

So don't shoot into the windwall, walk around it, change to a target on your side of it, or disengage for a few seconds. You do realize that the adc and team does not have to fight in the middle of a windwall, right? There is this thing called positioning, another thing called disengage, and another called target selection.

SlythionDec 1, 20167 votes

So don't shoot into the windwall, walk around it

...really...you think it's that simple? XD

change to a target on your side of it

an ADC should already be attacking the champion that's closest to them so idk what that's gonna do if the windwall blocks them off

or disengage for a few seconds

not always as simple or easy or a viable strategy for a lot of champions

You do realize that the adc and team does not have to fight in the middle of a windwall, right

you realize that the windwall is usually put up in the middle of a fight during the fight, right? It's not exactly something that the you can just choose to fight away from considering how it get's placed in response to the fight

mikemcpartyDec 1, 201611 votes

Yasuo windwall should have a cast time and a shorter duration. Nothing is worse than yasuo using windwall after the projectile has passed through its range and he can somehow still block it. I would prefer yasuo windwall to be more proactive a skill than a reactive one. It should be easier to bait.

CapillarianDec 1, 201610 votes

Thats because windwall starts on yasuo, and pushes forward. Thats like saying "I wish azir ult wouldn't push me off azir and would just start at it's max distance"

mikemcpartyDec 1, 20162 votes

No, its like saying I wish azir ulti wouldn't pull me from behind azir. Those two skills are not even comparable. To be honest, yasuo windwall is just as, if not more, impactful than azir ulti. You should never have a situation where one champion has a skill in their kit that negates so many ultimates without being an ultimate.

I QDec 2, 20164 votes

Yasuo's playstyle would be drastically changed with this. i don't think it is a good idea.

mikemcpartyDec 2, 20162 votes

How would it be changed? Because a champion that is meant to be played as an adc with crits doesn't have a get out of jail free card against his range foes? I'm not saying he needs to be gutted. I am just saying that his windwall is so easy to use that someone who is braindead can play him reasonably well. With how often windwall is up, it provides too much utility for himself AND his team.

I QDec 2, 20163 votes

I believe the playstyle of yasuo's windwall is too use it re actively, and then proceed to play around it. Kind of like a Skarner crystal. Since yasuo's windwall can be useless at times, it has a lot of conditional power, just like everything else in his kit.

With how often windwall is up

Just want address this, dont act like it has a short CD. The CD is: 26 / 24 / 22 / 20 / 18 and we all know it is not maxed until late into the game. With a 26 second CD it has a GIGANTIC CD for a non-ultimate ability, and since Yasuo doesn't normally build CDR until later into his build, playing around this long CD is pretty easy.

Wall Width: 300 / 350 / 400 / 450 / 500

Now for my next point on this subjet: Compared to Anivia wall, it is a lot more conditional. Anivia's wall is a 17 second CD at ALL RANKS with a wall width of 400 / 500 / 600 / 700 / 800, that means that at level 5 windwall on yas, you barely surpass a level 1 Anivia Wall's Width. Her CD is shorter then yasuo's at max rank, it blocks movement unlike Yasuo's wall and it has a short knockback if placed correctly. No matter the situation, Anivia's wall can be used for something, where as Yasuo's is CONDITIONAL. Anivia can place it however she wants, unlike Yasuo which has a set distance and the wall SLOWLY MOVES FORWARD, so camping it is hard; where as Anivia can just sit there spamming. Anivia's wall can also me used for combos EX: Vayne Condemn and Poppy E will act as if it is terrain. Anivia's wall also gives people an assist for it's use, where as Yasuo's doesn't. She can also stop backs with it.

HOWEVER THE BIGGEST POINT ABOUT ANIVIA'S WALL IS:

The wall deals 1 point of true damage to enemies it knocks away.

Yes that is right, Anivia wall does deal dmg. If you position the wall right that is 5 DAMAGE MAN.

~~I am not calling Anivia OP or anything, I am just brining up the fact that Yasuo's windwall is a little less annoying then Anivia's IMO~~

mikemcpartyDec 2, 20162 votes

It's late, so I am just going to reply with my reason for not liking yasuo's wall and why you can't compare it to other "walls" like anivia, taliyah, or azir. Yasuo's wall blocks ability and projectiles. That is the issue. A well placed wall from yasuo can render an entire back line useless. That is not the same for the other walls because even though they knock champions back, they do not block projectiles in the manner that his wall does.

I QDec 2, 20162 votes

His wall is avoided a lot easier then other walls though.

XilixerDec 1, 20166 votes

i agree with op. the simple fact that he takes a risk on a tower dive ult and it literally TRIES to make him safe is ridiculous.

Guy Fox TeemoDec 1, 20166 votes

I think the reason for this is that the animation for his ult is really really long. So by the time the animation ended he'd die to ult already.

Unlike every other champion which has the option to move out if they are going to die. Yasuo suffers more from tower diving then anyone else if that change was implemented (Whether thats a good or bad thing is up to you guys, I'm just stating why he has that power from what I imagine is Riots perspective on it)

VesemirDec 1, 20165 votes

I bet none of you played Yasuo enough to actually give a solid argument. Yasuo van fail no matter how goos the player is. And he gets punished HEAVILY over one simple mistake. If you cant punish you lose. His aggressive laning phase is perfect for ganks, he gets destroyed by any gank due to no escapes other than flash. His abilities will push the lane and he wll have no escapes. Learn how to counter him and you will have no difficulties. And countering him is easy tbh. If you are stupid enough to go 1v1 him after 30 min mark then its your fault. You can bait his windwall aswell it has a long CD. There are much troublesome champions in the game yet Yasuo always get the blame..

AhmChaDec 1, 20163 votes

"There are so many troublesome champions"

I bet I could provide the same shallow argument you just gave and say something as convincing as what you just said for one of your "problematic champions"

"Learn how to counter him and you will have no difficulties" Ok, fine that's a fair argument if not a little generic, but it also shows that you didn't read what I wrote. All I said was that he shouldn't be guaranteed safety if he wants to ult someone under turret. I said nothing about ANYTHING you wrote about. My post was about ulting under the turret and being blinked out of range. Please don't enter a thread about oranges and complain that people don't understand apples.

I QDec 2, 20162 votes

guaranteed safety

He is not safe, a towerdive always comes with risks. Unless you die to the actual ultimate, he will need to dive farther into the turret to do so. You could say "Yasuo could just dash through the minions and GG he lives", well think how much skill that takes.

You need to calculate how much damage you do proportional to the enemy's armor and health, predict tower damage, set up 2 Qs, Plan minion waves, AND ACTUALLY HIT YOUR TORNADO.

The fact of the matter is, his tornado is one of the thinnest skillshots in the game, and if you get close enough to get E Qed at low health, it is your fault.

PimasterchampionDec 2, 20161 votes

I don't have that much problems with yasuo. That is what bans are for. The problem i have with him tho is that he has a strong early and late game. He does alot of damage during laning phase, and if you mess up, you can't really run away as he has his dashes.

VesemirDec 2, 20163 votes

How is this any different than Riven or Fiora? If you mess up they wont let you escape aswell. Not to mention Riven can still 100-0 you without any kills once she hits 6.

TheorcheroDec 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

How is this any different than Riven or Fiora? If you mess up they wont let you escape aswell. Not to mention Riven can still 100-0 you without any kills once she hits 6.

Riven and Fiora don't get 12 dashes when you run past your tower because he'll just dive you anyway with a small lead? You can actually outrun those champions if you have ms steroids and over long or very short distances they're mobile but usually if you flash you're gone unless they flash in turn. Yasuo can just E through a minion and then E onto you because the E dash length is the same.

NineTailedMysticDec 2, 20162 votes

I bet none of you played Yasuo enough to actually give a solid argument. Yasuo van fail no matter how goos the player is. And he gets punished HEAVILY over one simple mistake. If you cant punish you lose. His aggressive laning phase is perfect for ganks, he gets destroyed by any gank due to no escapes other than flash.

So you have to always 2v1 him? mk.

VesemirDec 2, 20164 votes

Yeah you do. He is one of the strongest duelists in the game. You dont 1v1 Jax, Nasus, Tryndamere and Yasuo. Its in their kit to smash you on duels.

NineTailedMysticDec 2, 20162 votes

Except they have clear points in the game where they're weak. Jax needs to get Sheen at the very least dependent on match up, Nasus struggles early and late, Tryndamere relies on RNG early. Yasuo is the outlier. He has an almost oppressive laning phase, his two item power spike is one of the biggest power spikes in the game making his mid game amazing if even, oppressive when ahead, and ok if behind. This is on top of scaling like an ADC so he can shred late game teamfights either initiating for his team or cleaning up.

VesemirDec 2, 20161 votes

How come Nasus struggles late on 1v1 scenerio? You are talking about 2 item power spike. You SAID it yourself. Jax just needs the sheen. What if i told you Yasuo's greatest power isnt teamfights? Just like all duelist champions such as Jax, Fiora, Tryndamere and Nasus. They are split pushers and split pusher champions want you to go and stop them alone when you die they will tp and force a 4v5 teamfight. Thats what they do. GP just needs a triforce aswell and he is stronger than Yasuo from lv1-18. ADCs are the cancer of the game you are crying about a melee carry who crits meanwhile Caitlyn does more damage with the safety of range. Your logic is off the place and has so much holes. I cant cover all of them.

NineTailedMysticDec 2, 20162 votes

Nasus struggles late because any carry with a brain can kite him to death. Rylai's or QSS basically null his Wither. Jax needs Sheen OR MORE depending on the match up. In an easier match up he's cool with just Sheen, in a harder one he's more reliant on Trinity Force.

Regardless, all the champions you're comparing Yasuo to have much clearer and easier ways to counterplay and outplay them, to the point where the effort to deal with Yasuo is absurd in comparison. GPs barrels are much easier to deal with than Yasuo's kit in its entirety imo.

ADCs are squishier, have less defensive tools, and are much more immobile than Yasuo. I'm not fond of them either but I'd rather deal with the ADC than Yasuo any day.

"Crying". I just find Yasuo incredibly obnoxious.

TheorcheroDec 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Yeah you do. He is one of the strongest duelists in the game. You dont 1v1 Jax, Nasus, Tryndamere and Yasuo. Its in their kit to smash you on duels.

See, all of those champions except yasuo have exploitable early games in most cases, apart from cheeses that good players don't let them do. Yasuo? His cheese is all game. Run up to him to fight him? You better have a retarded amount of stats to just murder him because otherwise he is just going to auto->Q you for a ton of damage and has a good chance one of those will crit. So you stay away from him, only for him to spin onto for 100% knockup or him to throw Qs and either shove the wave for free or harass you with it, potentially getting an ult that shits all over you for his trouble. Oh, and when you're under turret, he can poke the shit out of you with Q and realistically 1v2 because he has a level advantage and absurd damage even with minimal items.

Fuck. Yasuo. Stop acting like just because people hate him he's not retarded or ridiculous to play against. His kit offers no meaningful counterplay. You can counterpick him and stat check him, that is until he outscales you. He bullies a great deal of laners early game while having a superb late game.

It's the same problem with some ADCs and champions like Ryze used to be. You cannot automatically win most 1v1 scenarios and outscale your lane opponent and still be balanced. Personally I can't wait until 10 bans so his ass is permanently on lock down in draft pick so I never have to play against that literal cancer again. Then maybe Riot will figure out that he is enormously frustrating to play against and will give him a rework that he needs, one that lets people who actually enjoy him play him. Even though they aren't people, I suppose Yasuo mains should be able to play their champion after they are gutted.

WinTheWarOnPantsDec 1, 20163 votes

what if they just gave him mana?

SlythionDec 1, 20162 votes

I don't agree with this avenue of nerfs simply because he is still a caster-based, ad/crit reliant champion and mana just creates too many limits in both playstyle and itemization for him to be even viable with mana

WinTheWarOnPantsDec 1, 20163 votes

it wouldn't be a direct nerf. he would have to be compensated elsewhere depending on where he lands. My thoughts are that all of yasuo's frustration whether it be his mobility, dmg, or dat windwall are all (almost) always available. yasuo is only gated by his HP. he has no resource, no cd's other than the windwall. Yasuo is the weakest champion in urf mode because HE IS ALWAYS URF mode. If he was given mana then you can say "oh he's oom so he can't windwal my ult now is the time to go in". otherwise he's never truly vulnerable. He would have to think before dashing all over the place, or spamming to clear the wave, or using windwall or he won't be able to ult when his full knockup team arrives to do all the work for him.

5050BSDec 1, 20163 votes

See I also think his stupid E needs to have charges max 3

For him to E through a full wave from his turret to me under mine is STUPID

GULAG 4 UDec 1, 20165 votes

On the other hand, because of minions, his E is very predictable. Also it has a fixed range to add. Melee carries need high-incombat mobility to stick to carries, it's part of their functions. They aren't supposed to be able to be kited.

japhibDec 1, 20163 votes

"If Yasuo wants to turret dive he should have to take the risk like the rest of us."

I assume you're talking about how Yasuo can get to you really fast without taking damage even when you're under turret. This is hardly a unique ability -- there are lots of champs with gap-closers, some of them even longer and more reliable than Yasuo's (because he has to land his 3rd Q first). For example, Kha'zix's evolved E is also available at lvl 6 and is a very, very long jump. Other champs have similar abilities that also provide CC, for example, a quick Vi Q into range and then ult.

I guess the only unique thing about his ult is that you can't see it coming. But then, most of these other abilities I mentioned can come from behind walls & such too, so if set up correctly

If this is happening to you repeatedly against Yasuos, I'm guessing that your real problem is staying under tower when you're low enough to get tower-dived. Whichever champ you're playing against, just remember what their abilities are and don't overstay. The turret doesn't provide infinite protection, and you need to be aware of Yas's ability to dive you just like you'd need to be aware of, say, a jungle Kha'zix coming over a wall at you and killing you just as fast.

AhmChaDec 1, 20167 votes

What I'm referring to is that if Yasuo ults you while under turret, rather than appearing on top of you as he usually does, he will blink outside turret range and not draw aggro. Thus, he turret dives without the consequences of turret diving. I am asking (most likely futilely) for this feature to be remove.