After living through five of these, I think I can safely say that class updates don't work

AhmCha··186 votes·8,829 views

Important Disclaimer: I know nothing and all of this is just one idiot's opinion, proceed with caution.

Every single one of these has sent the game into a spiraling clusterfuck for the next several patches, and in many cases has left the champions that they attempted to fix worse off than before (MalzaharCorkiLeblancRengar and now possibly Zac and Maokai...also some would argueShaco. Additionally, I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say that Sejuani is gonna join this club in the near future....again, making the tank update an 0 for 3. Oh and once in a blue moon I see threads about Mordekaiser but I'm sure he's fine). Then when things finally stabilize, you put out another one and the same cycle repeats itself. I don't mind big changes to the game, but shoving in these changes that no one actually asked for isn't a good way to do it.

Credit where credits due, not all of these are bad, and a handful of champion reworks actually turn out pretty great, DariusKatarina and Vladimir being a few examples (I know people have mixed feelings on Vlad, but I really liked his rework and as of now, it's pretty balanced imo). At the same time, the majority of them feel unnecessary or shoved in the wrong direction. For example, why did Zac and Velkoz get reworked? No one asked for this, before the MYMU everyone looked at Velkoz and thought "balanced." Do you know how rare that is? For a group of League of Legends players to look at a champion and AGREE that the champion is fine and doesn't need and major changes? So why the friggity frack did you go and add major changes to him then? And Zac? ~~You literally say in the midseason update page, granted in different words, "Zac doesn't really need changes." In fact let me go and find the quote real quick...ah here it is: "In terms of unique skillset and a rewarding path to mastery, Zac was in the best spot to start with." You admit that he's in a good spot and then decide, let's change that for no real reason. ~~ (As a commenter pointed out, I misinterpreted this quote from Riot. I was attempting to show that Zac was in a fine spot and did not really need a rework, but misquoting people isn't the way to go about that.) Yeah, that turned out great. I'm not even gonna get into items and objectives because my dumb bronze ass is already overstepping his boundaries by acting like he knows a lot about what goes into these. Although, I will say that personally I like more items because I think allowing variance in build paths allows skill by showing who can adapt to the needs of the current game the best, but that's just me.

The reason I'm even bothering to make this post is because there's a strong possibility that the next class update is going to be Divers. Divers are my favorite class in League, and I'm really worried that the potential changes are gonna fuck them over. I'm really concerned about the fates of MonkeyKing, Vi, Renekton, etc. Before you do another one of these, please fundamentally rethink the way you approach them, because as one of the many who has sat through all five of the previous ones, I can tell you that they do more harm to the game than good. Whatever lead to the Darius and Katarina changes, follow that line of thinking and not the...Malzahar one. Please. He wasn't a minionmancer, no one wanted him as a minionmancer, just because some dude built him AD and jungled doesn't mean anyone wanted him to be a minionmancer, fuck why do you do this to me? FUCK YOU. I'm sorry, I lost my temper.

Also Graves is a jungler...Graves is a FUCKING JUNGLER, goddamn you already make playing ADC like getting tested for syphilis and then you turn the one AD I like into a jungler, who outjungles the Marksman that's meant to jungle (btw I'm talking about Kindred in case you forgot they exist, fuck I wouldn't blame ya). Fuck it, resident Krug feeder out.

EDIT: I feel as though I should clarify something. I am speaking primarily of the class updates to champions. In regards to itemization I have very few issues except with the changes to item 3068 and possibly item 3046. I am of the opinion that more items for more situations is a very good thing for this game to have.

356 Comments

Bunnymap97 votes

I think I the individual mini reworks (ex: Shyvana, Donger, upcoming Rek) work out better in the end than the large updates.

Volibear Boss7 votes

{quoted}

I think I the individual mini reworks (ex: Shyvana, Donger, upcoming Rek) work out better in the end than the large updates.

I also really like the new Aatrox.

chipndip127 votes

Class updates tend to be better for more meta parts of the game, like items and junk, than it is for the champs in the updates.

RainbowIcee3 votes

Their choices for tank reworks was stupid anyways. They just wanted to nerf Zac, and maokai's damage. It's dumb. Why wasn't Malphite Volibear on this? malphite is a one trick pony and volibear has to chase down champions with no protection in his kit. Let me guess, "they need a full rework small one won't do them justice. " So why didn't they just give one of them the full rework and also work on the tank items? that would have been a ton better. Don't get me wrong I actually think the new maokai and Zac are fun. However they contribute a lot less than before because they lost a lot of damage and mao lost his damage reduction.

chipndip12 votes

Malphite: On the VGU list for the thousandth time.

Volibear: Is a juggernaut, a fighter class champion, not a tank.

RainbowIcee1 votes

says his own description he's a tank though. Fighter / tank.

Glory ln Death4 votes

Having a secondary classification of tank does not make you a true tank. He is classified as a Juggernaut by Riot.

Zacster25 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Feed Krugs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1mE9EPwY,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-08T18:31:13.573+0000) For example, why did Zac and Velkoz get reworked? No one asked for this, before the MYMU everyone looked at Velkoz and thought "balanced." Do you know how rare that is? For a group of League of Legends players to look at a champion and AGREE that the champion is fine and doesn't need and major changes? So why the friggity frack did you go and add major changes to him then?

Could not agree more

Beacon Academy24 votes

Sometimes your main gets reworked by someone who never plays your champion

Shit happens

Malzahar I will never forget Repertoire >_>

#Ever

KoggyStyle3 votes

google wouldent answer a question that bothered me, how do i find out what rioter made/reworked X champ....

sorry im asking this its bothered me awhile.

Over Innsmouth20 votes

Shit class updates are determined by Riot trying to "break new ground" with a Champions identity: Mordekaiser Malzahar KogMaw Zac .

Good class updates (rare as they are) are determined by Riot sticking with the identity and either enhancing it or focusing on game health issues: Vladimir Darius Katarina Talon .

That's how I see it anyway. Ideally I'd like Class Updates scrapped because they're a fucking shitshow that ruins game balance for ages, and they could instead have a third VGU team so we get quality work more often.

Leon Etoile6 votes

Basically, they fail at trying to get low play rate champs popular. They gimmick those champs to OP levels for a quick cash grab before nerfing them to beyond playable. Can't say last time I seen a Morde. Kogmaw needs comps that don't happen with randoms. Zac players were rare. Malz was low low on play rate but used by a lot of players as a pocket pick for specific mids. I mained Malz and hate him now. He isn't even a mid laner anymore.

Malzahar Is basically having his rework gutted but they insist on his stupid shield passive and old passive on his W. They're officially nerfing his minions (W) to being killed off any auto by a champ. Reason it is happening is b/c they've nerfed him so hard he's now a support.

Meep Man6 votes

I think people are judging Zac to soon. I believe his new kit is fun, but so weak it's impossible to enjoy. If it was balanced, I think it would be fun unlike Mordekaiser, Malzahar, and Kog'Maw (even though Kog'Maw's was pretty fun, it just limited design). I'd say once Zac and maybe Maokai get buffed a little and Sej nerfed a little, the reworks will have been an overall decent success unless some unforeseen problem arises from their strengths.

The real issue here with the Tank Update is Riot's unwillingness to preemptively throw out balance changes to champions who would clearly suffer from the changes (aka champions that relied a ton on health scaling). If Riot had done a little bit of that, this would have went more smoothly over all. Overall, however, Class Updates have had a tough time being appreciated. If the Tank Update doesn't turn out well by the middle or end of 7.11, I think Riot needs to step back and look at how they do Class Updates. Luckily, I would say that there are only one or two arguably classes in LoL that could be argued to need a class update, being Divers and Supports/Enchanters. Otherwise, I think the rest of the champions are due for VGUs. Even if Class Updates are overall frustrating, we have 2 at max left to get through.

Also, while I don't test EVERY patch, there are some PBE testers that I have played with on the PBE who are clearly only doing it to try out skins and such for their favorite champion. We need better testers as well as better response from Riot for balance on the PBE. During this patch's PBE testing, I played three games straight where neither Maokai, Sejuani, or Zac were picked by anyone but me. In fact, majority of the players weren't even picking Tanks. I saw a lot of Demon Blade Tryndamere, Pulsefire Ezreal, DJ Sona, Elementalist Lux, Arcade Riven, etc. when playing. It's incredibly aggravating.

JuhnChan5 votes

I find his Q really clunky and his ult too.

Playing him doesn't feel smooth like he used to, and that's honestly a good reason enough for me to not like the update.

Lux Is Mai Waifu9 votes

Sej might be tunable with numbers, but if she can reach balance again her core fanbase will be gone as well as the FOTM crowd. So yes, it will be a fail.

OmegaChadSett10 votes

Only reason people are playing her is because she is broken like you said. If anything gameplay wise she is less fun to play, with her ult being so finicky and honestly bad, if her e wasn't one of the most broken abilities in the game she wouldn't be played at all.

GelsominoKiller3 votes

I think sej ult is very strong still. It's an on demand long range stun, that can setup a stun chain with the storm.

I think riot did a decent job on sejuani all considered.

The only thing I don't like is how much of her power budget is concentrated in having melee teammates.

hhaavviikk8 votes

I have to disagree with darius, while yes they strengthened his identity he's still hell to lane against as a melee.

can't go melee top vs darius so they pick ranged can't go melee top vs ranged so they also pick ranged

Ahristocats17 votes

by your logic no melee would have an insane win rate against darius

meanwhile kled aatrox yorick riven

DaNinad9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna X RubicK,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1mE9EPwY,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-05-08T19:58:54.471+0000)

by your logic no melee would have an insane win rate against darius

meanwhile kled aatrox yorick riven

kled and yorick i kinda get but aatrox and riven seem kinda unlikely. Especially aatrox.

Ahristocats6 votes

Aatrox outduels darius and can prevents him to get his outer Q with 3 sec slow+Q

if you don't believe me watch league of graph

Noxian Pride3 votes

Darius player, Riven is a skill matchup.

By skill matchup I mean "Is the Riven good?" And that determines who wins immediately. A good Riven roflstomps even a great Darius. It's the #1 melee champ we complain about alongside Fiora.

Troll for Trump6 votes

This.

Riven onetricks will always beat Darius. Yes, Ik you can play around them, E stopping third Q etc. But Riven has more options than Darius does.

the weeaboo7 votes

Dear god please dont touch my Vi Riot... Leave her alone.

Rıots Bad Client6 votes

I personally like them.

Some champs are hit and miss. I'll agree that Skarner Garen seem to have missed. But champions like Malzahar Leblanc Rengar ALL needed a rework in some way. They were not healthy and reverting them wouldn't solve them.

DaNinad9 votes

{quoted}

I personally like them.

Some champs are hit and miss. I'll agree that Skarner Garen seem to have missed. But champions like Malzahar Leblanc Rengar ALL needed a rework in some way. They were not healthy and reverting them wouldn't solve them.

Yeah but now leblanc is sitting at a 40% win rate, rengar is now just a zoning champion, and malzahar is just no viable mid lane anymore

deadlychuck4 votes

No one thinks that the revert will solve the champions in most cases. Though in the case of someone like Malzahar and his new W. It's such a convoluted and high variance skill, that implementing it only managed to add in a whole new, equally long or longer, list of problems that riot hasn't even managed to identify.

At least if they were to revert the rework, they'd have made more progress "fixing" malzahar, from the reworked frame of view, than they've managed to make with a year of constant tinkering.

FiddlesOnTheRoof6 votes

So well typed out and worded. thank you for this. Riot needs to see this. I've been saying for ages- VGU's have been amazing. Class updates have been needless and awful.

Velzard of Koz5 votes

I agree with you but you misinterpreted the Zac quote. They said he's in the best spot [comparatively]. If someone is dying of AIDS and then there's someone without a leg, from the two, the one missing leg is in the best spot, but not a good one. Being in the best spot compared to few champs isn't explicitly good spot. They also were talking specifically unique skillset and rewarding mastery curve.

RocketRelm19 votes

Yeah, but Zac wasn't missing a leg, he just had a broken fingernail. A minor patch to make his Q involve more gameplay was all he needed, if that.

Unvictus6 votes

Keep the new Q and change his ult back and I think most zac mains will be happy with that.

AhmCha3 votes

Ah, so I did. I will edit that in the near future. Good looking out friendo.

Serophous4 votes

Warwick ?

AhmCha44 votes

Warwick was a full VGU. In my opinion, full VGU's are the best work that Riot does by a landslide. Class updates and full VGU's are two separate things however.

macromite12 votes

not every full vgu has been good. but warwick was good.

Cosmic Warper6 votes

{quoted}

not every full vgu has been good. but warwick was good.

which ones haven't been good? Poppy's was a numbers issue, otherwise her update was great. sion was excellent, taric was good, and warwick was excellent.

Neamean2 votes

Did someone say Taric http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9mqu6fCcT1rzv2fho1_400.gif

but for real though I think most full VGU after Sion are good

These are all the champion that got rework since Sion Sion Tristana Gangplank Poppy Taric Yorick Warwick Galio Ryze MissFortune Fiora Shen

and we have two more comingEvelynn Urgot. They've all been great although some were a bit lowkeyTristana or lacklusterShen MissFortune they've been mostly great.

Monsieur Kast1 votes

You forgot Ryze.

Neamean2 votes

But I didn't, however I do understand how you could have missed him. He's right next to Miss Fortune very distracting I presume.

macromite14 votes

Gangplank was and is a balance nightmare Yorick who is this champion? Poppy mostly numbers, spot on. Fiora oh look, a balance nightmare. Ryze we haven't seen the last of him, have we?

Sion Galio Warwick These are the three that we can call good so far. the rest have failed in creating a character that has a good unique place within the league of legends.

Abyssphere12 votes

So Poppy had a few numbers out of place on occasion and because of that you think she is a failed character? Sion was also unbalanced for an extended period.

ModKnightsKemplar12 votes

You forgot the best rework in League of Legends history...

Taric I don't care what anyone else says, this rework turned out damn near perfectly. I cannot think of an improvement to the design of this champion now. It is superb.

Voluug132 votes

Making him stronger in jungle/toplane without making him stronger in botlane. Lower manacosts and/or increased power on solo abilities is something that wont affect support taric but could make the roles that Riot said they wanted to support stronger (and they need it).

Theorchero3 votes

{quoted}

Gangplank was and is a balance nightmare Yorick who is this champion? Poppy mostly numbers, spot on. Fiora oh look, a balance nightmare. Ryze we haven't seen the last of him, have we?

Sion Galio Warwick These are the three that we can call good so far. the rest have failed in creating a character that has a good unique place within the league of legends.

YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT MY PIRATE LIKE THAT Gangplank

HE'S NOT A BALANCE NIGHTMARE

HE'S HARD TO PLAY AND NEEDS BUFFS AND EXTRA CUDDLES FROM NIDALEE TO COMPENSATE FOR PEOPLE BULLYING HIM. Nidalee

XeroKimo2 votes

I don't recall fiora being a balance nightmare.... when she just got reworked, she got buffed for being too weak, and then people realised how to play her properly, and then they nerfed her. Than bruiser build became too strong so they readjusted her numbers to make full AD fiora a bit more appealing while bruiser fiora weaker.

That was like in the span of like 5-6 patches after her rework, she's been hardly touched now and I think both her play styles are in a pretty balanced spot atm

SeductiveGrandpa3 votes

Gangplank Arguably, a balance nightmare. Made an actual character out of cardboard and expanded on a pretty lack-luster kit while adding room for mastery and learning + things that can change your ult allowing you different playstyles(although I agree the heavy reliance on barrels can be quite aggravating sometimes) Yorick Amazing VU, good GU. Although, this one is criminally under-rated, again - expanded on a character and made something out of cardboard. Gave Yorick a good way to be able to control minions without it feeling too unfair to the opposing laner - although, sometimes his push can be overbearing. Poppy Astounding. And here I was with the opinion that old poppy was better deleted than revamped. Once again, making something out of cardboard- and a damn good something- I don't agree with her numbers being a problem but I can easily put this on Sion level rework of quality. Fiora Uh. Confusing? The VU was controversial but once they got the look back to her original state I felt it was great, also her gameplay is fun and way more interactive- it does a good job expanding and making Fiora better and requiring more skill while also providing room for mastery but her numbers can get ridiculous and with the mobility and utility of this kit, she can be kind of bullshit...a lot. This one I find actually debatable on being good or somewhat bad. Ryze I dont fucking know at this point. Hes been changed so much that I honestly just dont fucking know. Maybe? At least he looks visually appealing but god I sometimes wonder if anyone would notice if Ryze was removed.

Reworks I can call good so far: Corki Sion Katarina Poppy Galio Taric Yorick

Vekkna4 votes

From memory: Fiora After a lot of ups and downs, I think this was ultimately a success. Akali Failure Alistar Pointless and less fun Amumu Seems relatively successful thus far Anivia Pointless Annie Pointless but yet more cancerous Ashe Resounding success! Brand Pointless but more cancerous Caitlyn Success, but traps are cancer Cassiopeia Success, but currently a casualty of the meta Chogath An absolute atrocity Corki Pointless failure Darius Success, but still an abomination Fizz Failure and toxic as hell Galio Success Gangplank Asscancer Garen Failure Graves Asscancer Katarina Largely successful KogMaw FAILURE Leblanc FAILURE Leona Success! Malzahar FAILURE MissFortune Resounding success! Mordekaiser FAILURE Poppy After some balance issues, I'd say resounding success! Quinn Mixed Rengar FAILURE Ryze FAILURE, FAILURE, FAILURE, and FUTURE FAILURE Sejuani Looks promising Soraka Pointless Swain Pointless Syndra Pointless Talon Success but still pretty toxic Taric Success for the most part Shen FAILURE Urgot Just kidding Velkoz Literally pointless Xerath Literally pointless Zyra Mixed toxic when strong, and weak when she feels balanced. Rework is stronger but design is a total failure.

Winterkill3 votes

It's hit or miss with class updates. In the past when Riot Games did a Class Update, the entire game was one sided and everything was broken. I think the Assasin and Tank update were successful . . . and people are overreacting. Sure Lethality was being abused but it didn't take them 6 to 7 months to fix it like they did with the ADC update . . . that took 6 to 7 months to balance. The ADC update was a nightmare and really ruined the game. Riot Games obviously learned from it and tried to do better with the Mage update . . . . but they didn't really accomplish the level of gameplay the Tank and Assasin update did. Do you want to know the reason why? They didn't' work on 6 champions in one Class Update . . . ., actually listened to player feedback, and really honed in on who the champions are. Kat, Talon, Sej, Zac, and Maokai all play better to me . . . . .

These Class Updates are meant to be for champions that need gameplay and thematic changes . . . and not VGU. Unfortunately, Riot Games ruined a lot of champions in the process of trying to learn how to approach Class Updates. It now seems like they have a firm understanding of how to approach Class Updates now. It sucks that specific champions are being ignored and were changed so much that now they need a VGU to correct mistakes . . . . Riot Games made . . . . . and push back.


Ryze will probably get another VGU before anyone else. As players have been telling these Developers for years . . . they don't do enough VGU a year. League of Legends has too many champions to keep up with now with balancing, kit changes, and if that new champion is in the meta now. Look at Kalista, Azir, Reksai, and other newer champions. They all need balancing, changes to their kit, updates . . . and more . . . . Every time they add a new champion and need to do this level of work on them, it takes months and sometimes years to get it accomplished and that is work being taken away from a champion that has been waiting for years to get that work done on them. These Developers just don't understand this and they don't care.

Riot Games needs to stop making champions for the next few years . . . or just do one a year . . . and really Dedicate themselves to bringing this world and champions to life and updated. I mean for Christ sake . . . . . Ryze had four updates the past couple years and it is all a waste of time that could have been spent on someone else and making them better. Instead they wasted time on a champion that is a time guzzler.

DevlinCrow1 votes

They fucked up Morde, Malz and Zac's ult is underwhelming sure but I feel the rest were successful in what they were trying to do.

Kindred is decent right now, just not in pro play.

Junkο4 votes

Kindred is absolute garbage and they get destroyed by anybody who has a brain to contest the marks. Not to mention being a squishy jungler with a not so good anymore clear means you can actually just get blown up during ganks unlike every other jungler who doesn't risk that because of multiple combinations of CC, healthy clears, burst damage or mobility.

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