Talon

Asayake 5150glow·Jan 30, 2017·1 votes·576 views

His kit's damage seems to be placed in the wrong spot, and I'm not talking about his passive. His W damage is insane for something that cannot really be dodged if you're melee and don't have a directional dash, as it moves to him, so him moving aside you means it'll hit you. It's also got a fairly short cooldown (9 seconds) and a average mana cost, but Talon's got pretty good base mana (377 at lvl 1).

Now that poke hurts like hell early game, especially top lane.

His Q damage, however, is absurdly low. When he goes in on you with Q, you barely feel it, except his W damage.

My proposal?

Put his W damage into his Q damage.

Lengthen W time. The delay is an illusion. You still can't dodge it without a directional dash.

7 Comments

StephenizgodJan 30, 20174 votes

The W has a delay with plenty of time to move out of the way. If you can't move out of the way in time you are way too close to him. Honestly you should not be so close to him for multiple reasons:

His Q at melee range will Crit automatically and he can AA Q AA very quickly within a second due to how the ability works.
Being far away denies him his Q's damage and forces him to use it as a gap closer.
Obviously it makes it easier to hit both parts of his W on you if you are closer and he will be able to proc his Passive very easily.
The closer you are the more likely it is he will be able to kill you without his R, which he can then roam and use it in another lane.

You say its fairly spam-able, but the truth is it is not. Unless he is hitting both parts of it every time, he will be wasting mana trying to poke you down to a level he can kill you. I noticed in response to Mecha's comment you said you were Irelia, this is actually a match-up in your favor. If you are truly in melee range, just E him after he uses W and then run to the side. He can't run with you because he will be stunned and you would have won the trade easily as you can no go in on him and he has no way of proccing his passive.

On a side note, I think his reliance on hitting his W in order to assassinate is a step in the right direction. However, I think the power of his E's mobility causes the rest of his kit to suffer a bit. His damage late game is pretty low and his ability to assassinate becomes increasingly difficult in comparison to other Assassins, even when he is ahead. His damage is there, but its not as reliable as the other assassins and generally puts him in more danger. Basically I think his E's potential is too great and his kit is a bit weaker because of it (compared to other assassins, although one could argue most of them are way overtuned).

Asayake 5150glowJan 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The W has a delay with plenty of time to move out of the way. If you can't move out of the way in time you are way too close to him. Honestly you should not be so close to him for multiple reasons:

His Q at melee range will Crit automatically and he can AA Q AA very quickly within a second due to how the ability works.

Being far away denies him his Q's damage and forces him to use it as a gap closer.

Obviously it makes it easier to hit both parts of his W on you if you are closer and he will be able to proc his Passive very easily.

The closer you are the more likely it is he will be able to kill you without his R, which he can then roam and use it in another lane.

You say its fairly spam-able, but the truth is it is not. Unless he is hitting both parts of it every time, he will be wasting mana trying to poke you down to a level he can kill you. I noticed in response to Mecha's comment you said you were Irelia, this is actually a match-up in your favor. If you are truly in melee range, just E him after he uses W and then run to the side. He can't run with you because he will be stunned and you would have won the trade easily as you can no go in on him and he has no way of proccing his passive.

On a side note, I think his reliance on hitting his W in order to assassinate is a step in the right direction. However, I think the power of his E's mobility causes the rest of his kit to suffer a bit. His damage late game is pretty low and his ability to assassinate becomes increasingly difficult in comparison to other Assassins, even when he is ahead. His damage is there, but its not as reliable as the other assassins and generally puts him in more danger. Basically I think his E's potential is too great and his kit is a bit weaker because of it (compared to other assassins, although one could argue most of them are way overtuned).

I was nowhere near E range (as Irelia) and still could not avoid it. Which is why it's bs - the ranged poke is way too strong.

Yes his Q at melee range does a lot, but as an engage its terrible. Which is kinda stupid, since right now he's doing 90% of his damage with his W, then going in with Q just to get into auto range.

His W is too fast, it should be timed with his ult so when he's assassinating, he has a shit ton of blades coming back to him at once. Right now it's gonna come back to him much earlier. It's also incredibly difficult to dodge, due to it going back to Talon thus him moving along with you means you'll be hit no matter what, unless you go out backwards, which you can't, due to the range and the hitbox.

StephenizgodJan 31, 20172 votes

If you are nowhere near E range you are far enough away to move out of the way. Talon can move with you but if you start to move first he won't be able to catch you with it.

Its actually not that bad as an engage, I mean a perfect scenario is hitting them at melee range, but it has a low cool down which means he can get it off multiple times. It also allows him to get into melee range so its easier to hit his W both times.

His W is too fast? Sure when it comes out but it has a fairly large delay specially when you consider how much he relies on hitting both parts. I am not sure what you are talking about with his ult? That part doesn't really make sense to me.

Listen I think you should try to play Talon, if you are correct you should be able to dominate your lane effortlessly. However if you don't dominate, look at what your opponent is doing to avoid your damage and try to learn from that. This a pretty good way to learn what a champion is capable of and you also learn a lot about how their kit works. Obviously someone who is good at that champion is going to perform better than you, but you can still learn CD's and Mana costs and general counterplay.

Mecha MaIphiteJan 30, 20172 votes

He needs to hit you both times to get more damage off. The first hit doesn't really hurt, and there's a pretty significant delay before it returns. Unless you're in melee range (which you shouldn't be unless you're fighting), you can dodge it just by moving away.

Asayake 5150glowJan 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mecha MaIphite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xUrGGvkX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-30T22:36:43.382+0000)

He needs to hit you both times to get more damage off. The first hit doesn't really hurt, and there's a pretty significant delay before it returns. Unless you're in melee range (which you shouldn't be unless you're fighting), you can dodge it just by moving away.

I just played against it yesterday as Irelia. It's pretty impossible to dodge if he moves with you.

Mecha MaIphiteJan 30, 20171 votes

If it's impossible to dodge, you're way too close. Staying at a medium-ish range should let you dodge the second half of his Q.

Just imagine you're playing against someone like Darius or Pantheon. Farm when you can, respect their damage, and only enter their radius when either you're fighting, or you know you can afford to take the damage.

Asayake 5150glowJan 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mecha MaIphite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xUrGGvkX,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-30T23:05:03.902+0000)

If it's impossible to dodge, you're way too close. Staying at a medium-ish range should let you dodge the second half of his Q.

Just imagine you're playing against someone like Darius or Pantheon. Farm when you can, respect their damage, and only enter their radius when either you're fighting, or you know you can afford to take the damage.

I'm a melee champion, so in order to farm I have to get fairly close...

Mediumish range still didn't let me dodge it, as walked backwards meant I still got hit by them. Little bs, honestly.

Against Darius him using Q is literally taunting me to go in on him. Bad analogy. I get the Panth one tho. Except, Talon does much more damage than Panth... more range, too. His poke literally does more damage than that of the pokiest Roman in the world.