Patch 5.16 Bruiser Mordekaiser (top) theorycrafting @RIOT

Malicious Metal··19 votes·9,555 views

So we all know the Morde rework will at least stay with us for one patch before being tuned regarding Morde's state of balance in solo and duo lanes so I thought to myself it's never too early to do some math and hypothetical talk about the impact these changes might have on Mordekaiser's various playstlyes. I know there are as many different Mordekaiser builds and styles as there are players who main the guy so this thread will delve into the aspects of MY Morde; Top lane AP Bruiser, the build which helped me climb out of silver this season after heavily improving it over the three years I've mained Morde. That being said, let's get started.

Old vs New: Build My current build consists of rushing an early revolver and building straight into Rylais, from there building a Spirit Visage, Zhonyas, Will and Deathcap alone the way until the glorious lategame rolls about. This puts him above 3 thousand health with about 650 ability power and mixed resistances, a shield of 630 being the current maximum cap.

With the newer one you can completely disregard spell vamp and build right into a Rylais, followed by a trinity force. These two items should help him stick to people with the shortened Ultimate range and abysmal movement speed. From there I'd probably build into a Zhonyas followed by a Deathcap and Spirit visage, similar to my current build since it seems way better after patch 5.16 due to the max hp scaling on the shield as well as the need for some more survivability. Health: 3330 (With health/level seals and 9/21/0) Ad: 181 (Tri force) MR: 114 Armor: 150 AP: 580ish AS:1.24 Shield:832 MS: 400

While the new build loses about 70 ap it gains a lot of shield strength and ad, which feed into Mordekaiser's new siphon and mace of spades as well as giving him the spell blade passive. Being the champion with the highest base ad (151) makes it a must buy on him since he'd be hitting for 302 damage after each spell cast.

Overall a better bruiser build, which seems to Riot's intention with the rework in the first place.

Spell Damage comparison

Mace of Spades: 760>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(260 base+3.9 Ad(706)+2.6AP(1508)+3*AA(543))= 3017

Creeping Death/Harverster of Sorrow: 992>>>>>>648 single magic damage and 304 burst on reactivation/ 1296 damage if the two AoE touch

Siphon of Destruction:640>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>612

Children of the Grave:60% max HP>>>>>>>>>>>>>58% Max HP

2392+60%HP>>>>>>>>>>>>>5229+58%HP 2837 damage gained! (Not to mention the 300 damage sheen proc)

The new Mordekaiser will hurt like a truck lategame but his damage will be tied to being in melee range, making him a true Juggernaut similar to Nasus. His wave clear isn't going to be as strong though since his q's single target damage.

Mordekaiser's gotten a lategame buff in exchange for a less unhealthy bully pattern in lane. His wave clear took a major hit if not being near an allied champion due to his W's restriction, making SoloKaiser a very weak pusher as opposed to the current version in the game<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Suggestion: Give Mordekaiser the option to cast his W on himself to give him some more wave clear in the solo lane. The damage won't be stacking since he won't be near an ally, making me question why he won't be able to cast it on himself in the first place.

All in all he seems to be a way stronger duelist and team fighter due to the nature of his abilities requiring him to be in melee range, making him rely either on the Rylai slow, the MS from trinity force or, most importantly, HIS TEAMMATES.

In the duo lane he'll be unstoppable but really weak when solo>>>>Needs to be addressed, taking away some duo lane power in exchange for solo prowess.

Visuals: Okay... This guy's the master of Metal yet his only metal ability's his Siphon, which TBH doesn't even have a lot of metal in it. Could we maybe address this and add some more metal spikes to the ability, making it actually look like it would hurt? Also, his W looks awful: Purple mist and some glass particles? Give us a reddish-crimson glowing mist like in his splash art and make the metal shards stand out more/add more of them to make him feel more like the MASTER OF METAL

His Q's fine though, sounds HEAVY and METAL

Overall I think Mordekaiser's Rework hot A LOT of potential, especially if you address his Solo lane issues. He'd be the Heavy metal version of Nasus! God like lategame, great dueling, tanky as hell BUT prone to kiting, CC, getting focused and especially GETTING IN RANGE. Overall great Ideas but seemingly lackluster in terms of making his solo lane viable>>>> Address this RIOT and you've probably managed to rework Mordekaiser successfully; opening up more lanes to be played in, making him healthier, making him more of a Bruiser/Juggernaut than a burst mage, Improving his Solo lane without making him unhealthy, and overall opening up for different kind of players! (Top, Mid, Junglers and bot laners!)

~M.M

41 Comments

BastionKross3 votes

As I don't have access to the PBE, I can't say anything from personal experience. I've only got second-hand accounts and youtube footage to go off of.

Build: item 3078 item 3116 seems to be core for both damage and sticking power. A little bit of defense there too, but it's not going to be enough in the long run. People said that new Morde won't need much damage after those two items, so it's not a bad idea to go straight up tank items like item 3065 item 3102 item 3068 item 3143 item 3075. The item 3742 seems like a perfect fit. However, if more damage is required, that new Hydra item seems to give a nice boost with all that HP Morde will be building. The new Gage item may be okay if the lane is particularly difficult. Really, just about any item seems to be okay. New Morde scales with so many stats it's hard to go wrong without doing it on purpose. Of course, that's both a blessing and a curse.

Visuals: What is that weak looking E? Old E had giant mace heads plow up through the ground and smash everyone. The new E looks like Morde sharply exhales in the general direction of an enemy. I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure I'm not playing as Janna. Make it look painful. W is... underwhelming. I like the shards of metal flying around and wish there were more of them, but the blue/purple gas effect confuses me. Does Morde break wind while he's flinging metal around? Make it more intimidating like his old W. Make it look like something an enemy champion would want to avoid walking through.

SatuatyV1 votes

Talking about visuals, I miss the maces coming from the ground when using E

stuartk111 votes

It does seem that sticking to primarily AP items is the most effective build for Mordekaiser. The damage on the E is simply not worth going heavy in the AD when AP will still increase its damage anyways. As far as viability goes, I don't know how effective he will be, but your itemization seems like it would be best for solo lane. I'm just not sure that solo lane Mordekaiser will be worth it after these changes.

Malicious Metal1 votes

{quoted}

It does seem that sticking to primarily AP items is the most effective build for Mordekaiser. The damage on the E is simply not worth going heavy in the AD when AP will still increase its damage anyways. As far as viability goes, I don't know how effective he will be, but your itemization seems like it would be best for solo lane. I'm just not sure that solo lane Mordekaiser will be worth it after these changes.

I'm no fortune teller but Solo lane Kaiser will probably be pretty weak during laning phase with the current rework but will become one hell of a threat later on. What I'll want to see is being able to use harvester of sorrow in solo lanes and I'll be sold. I got pretty low standards ^^''

But yeah, duo lane morde might be able to get away with building some more damage but his shield scaling on maximum health makes it kinda redundant.

Like Morde likes to say; "We shall see...."

stuartk111 votes

I think Mordekaiser is supposed to be a weak laner though, and they did hit his waveclear deliberately to ensure it. I think that he will be difficult to use in team-fights with less AoE damage and being somewhat slow and low range, but we'll find out whenever the patch comes out I suppose.

Malicious Metal1 votes

{quoted}

I think Mordekaiser is supposed to be a weak laner though, and they did hit his waveclear deliberately to ensure it. I think that he will be difficult to use in team-fights with less AoE damage and being somewhat slow and low range, but we'll find out whenever the patch comes out I suppose.

Well Scruffy told us "Quote on Quote" that Mordekaiser's solo laning will be as strong/fun as it currently is after the rework. And Heck, I'd love to shift him from the boring Siphon, Siphon, Siphon, Ignite+Ult play style to a more duelist kind of guy. less poke and more brawling's what I'd love to see. He's a Metal Warlord, League's version of Sauron! He would not be a coward and harass his opponents from range until they're weakened enough to fall to his combo.

No, I'd rather see him wanting to be engaged upon, or pick his fights wisely to bash his enemies with his newfound dueling prowess.

Wave clear should be up on par with his life stats though. It's already weaker due to his Q being single target and not AoE. Give him his W and he will be able to push effectively :)

stuartk111 votes

I'm fine with them shifting his playstyle to being more of a brawler aswell, but the old Mordekaiser was successful because he was primarily about being strong in lane, and bursting his opponent down with this E and Q combo. It was an unhealthy playstyle, and I'm glad it's moving away from that, but you still have to address the elephant in the room.

Malicious Metal1 votes

{quoted}

I'm fine with them shifting his playstyle to being more of a brawler aswell, but the old Mordekaiser was successful because he was primarily about being strong in lane, and bursting his opponent down with this E and Q combo. It was an unhealthy playstyle, and I'm glad it's moving away from that, but you still have to address the elephant in the room.

Well current Morde either completely destroys his lane or falls behind and loses the game due to him not being able to succeed without enough farm/kills/gold. There is no middle ground. If I skimp through my match history I'm able to marvel at this phenomenon first hand. You really either get fed or feed, heck, even if you go even you're facing problems. These changes help address this issue; he'll scale pretty well, even with few damage items and has very clear weaknesses and strengths. After this patch his opponents won't be as frustrated during laning phase as they are now but seeing that he only has two abilities in lane makes me cringe. Getting rid of this awful restriction on W will help him succeed in lane even though he won't be a bully anymore. Everyone would be happy :D

stuartk111 votes

The term "feast or famine" fits very well with current Morde. He isn't supposed to have his W in solo lanes because it requires that both of the AoEs it creates touch to cause its damage. The problem arises when you think about adding more weaknesses to a champion with plenty of weaknesses already. Having a worse laning phase and less presence is just sort of adding to the list.

Malicious Metal1 votes

{quoted}

The term "feast or famine" fits very well with current Morde. He isn't supposed to have his W in solo lanes because it requires that both of the AoEs it creates touch to cause its damage. The problem arises when you think about adding more weaknesses to a champion with plenty of weaknesses already. Having a worse laning phase and less presence is just sort of adding to the list.

That's actually a misconception with Harvester of Sorrow. It DOES deal damage but it's now able to do double damage if the metal shroud touch, making it hella powerful in conjunction with an allied champ.^^ It's just that he isn't able to cast it at all, tweaking it a bit to fit solo lanes would be all he needs to work up there in top, he already has plenty of weaknesses so denying him access to his whole kit stings like salt in a wound :S

Big Lincoln1 votes

Well, it's a pretty simple solution

step 1. Mordekaiser's W now does damage independent of someone else being in a shared radius

step 2. It now does bonus damage if the radii touch OR, as a much better incentive for a bruiser and something I very much would prefer, he gains back his armor/MR steroid while they share their AoE

The Fast1 votes

Welcome to the new dark side Malicious Metal. We have heavy metal.

Would you still max E in a solo lane, or would you opt for Q? Would it be matchup dependent? E's HP cost is waaaaaay higher than Q's.

Would Trinity still be better first top lane? Or would Rylai's? Is this where we consider a waveclear item like Titanic?

Malicious Metal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Kore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xTIfR8Mn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-17T16:18:33.712+0000)

Welcome to the new dark side Malicious Metal. We have heavy metal.

Would you still max E in a solo lane, or would you opt for Q? Would it be matchup dependent? E's HP cost is waaaaaay higher than Q's.

Would Trinity still be better first top lane? Or would Rylai's? Is this where we consider a waveclear item like Titanic?

Well, that's a very trick question actually. W being useless makes getting either E or Q a must. And E's kinda wonky nowadays since they gutted its base damage, making his former Bread and Butter ability really bad. His Q's damage comes mainly from the ratio on it, making maying it first to have a lesser effect than maxing it second since you won't have as much ap for it to hurt. All in all I'd say maxing E seems better for farming safely and getting some damage off but the nerf on it makes me cringe.

As for the first item I'd say Rylais is way better due to being cheaper, having more health and AP, as well as having a great passive slow on it. The build path is great too and there aren't wasted stats like crit and mana on it.

Titanic hydra seems like a decent option but I'd rather have some inbuilt wave clear back instead of having to rely on items like Riven/Rengars. If you look at the kit on paper the pushing capacity seems as good as on live if you count the W, which I repeatedly insist on unlocking for Solokaiser.

Vhalthoria1 votes

I would suggest that he be able to cast W solo but with it's effects reduced by %50 or something OR make it that when he is alone Creeping Death takes place instead of Harvesters of Sorrow, and Harvesters of Sorrow when accompanied.

The new Harvesters of Sorrow ground effects would hint the enemy he/she is getting ganked so counterplay would still be possible. Otherwise he would know Morde is just casting Creeping Death.

Just suggestions of course.

Lord Boltrix2 votes

{quoted}

I would suggest that he be able to cast W solo but with it's effects reduced by %50 or something OR make it that when he is alone Creeping Death takes place instead of Harvesters of Sorrow, and Harvesters of Sorrow when accompanied.

The new Harvesters of Sorrow ground effects would hint the enemy he/she is getting ganked so counterplay would still be possible. Otherwise he would know Morde is just casting Creeping Death.

Just suggestions of course.

^ This, just this!

JedenVojak1 votes

I don't really think item 3078 is a good item on Mordekaiser because it doesn't give anywhere near enough AP for its cost. Since his ult doesn't scale on AD, AD items aren't really worth it, imo.

I'm thinking about relying more on this thing item 1310 or possibly even this if his move speed just feels really bad item 1305. item 3115 might also be a good item on him now, for CDR and attack speed, although his attack speed might just be overnefed right now.

I especially don't like being told "Oh build this item 3044 item on him it's good for him now." It's not good on him, its +20 move speed per hit but he's 15 move speed behind what he used to be - this is him being nerfed and having to pay gold to try and make up for what he's lost. The fact that he has to build a an otherwise bad item for him does not make the item "good".

Malicious Metal2 votes

Well, to be completely honest I personally think his full AP build is dead. You've got really short range on your ult and siphon and you rely on getting some movement speed due to the fact that he's fallen into the 325 MS tier. The phage does feed into his Q, E and gives him some nice MS when bashing his enemies with his mace. Not to mention the fact that his 200 AA range does help him get the procs off. You simply can't get away with building pure damage and need to get some survivability and utility, T Force seemingly giving him everything he needs.

The buff to his base AD makes him the champion who gets the most out of the spell blade passive, giving him 302 damage after every spell, which all have pretty low cooldowns on their own. But yeah, we'll see how this goes.

JedenVojak1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xTIfR8Mn,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-08-17T20:42:22.861+0000)

You've got really short range on your ult and siphon and you rely on getting some movement speed due to the fact that he's fallen into the 325 MS tier. The phage does feed into his Q, E and gives him some nice MS when bashing his enemies with his mace. Not to mention the fact that his 200 AA range does help him get the procs off. ** You simply can't get away with building pure damage** and need to get some survivability and utility, T Force seemingly giving him everything he needs.

Not pure damage??? But... how am I supposed to keep my shields charged???

Aside from that though, it seems like live Mordekaiser is already pretty tanky and survivable, with his blade armor and damage shield - I would usually go for just AP items (usually like this item 3152 item 3151 item 3157 ) and that he seemed pretty tanky to me. I thought this was supposed to be the Juggernaut update... was his tankiness knocked down that much?

Well, to be completely honest I personally think his full AP build is dead.

;_;

stuartk111 votes

The main reason for people thinking he's less tanky is the drop of his resistances from his W, the lower shield generation rate (down to 25%) and his lower base HP. There is trade-off though, since his HP/level was increased, his W now has a heal and his shield now scales with max HP. Not to mention that his E can generate shield per champion hit. It's still difficult to tell, but he feels less tanky in lane.

Malicious Metal1 votes

{quoted}

The main reason for people thinking he's less tanky is the drop of his resistances from his W, the lower shield generation rate (down to 25%) and his lower base HP. There is trade-off though, since his HP/level was increased, his W now has a heal and his shield now scales with max HP. Not to mention that his E can generate shield per champion hit. It's still difficult to tell, but he feels less tanky in lane.

False! It's an error on Riot's part. Morde already gets 80 hp/level so they've actually nerfed his base hp by about 30 :P

stuartk111 votes

I remember reading that somewhere, and the wikia seems to match this aswell. I'm avoiding making any major judgements about it since the patch will be out probably some time this week anyways. I will say that he feels worse in lane, but I'm confident that Riot did intend to shift power away from his early game.

Malicious Metal1 votes

{quoted}

I remember reading that somewhere, and the wikia seems to match this aswell. I'm avoiding making any major judgements about it since the patch will be out probably some time this week anyways. I will say that he feels worse in lane, but I'm confident that Riot did intend to shift power away from his early game.

And their intentions are admirable indeed. They might need to tweak his solo lane though in 5.17 feeling that it might be too weak.

stuartk111 votes

But he's intended to be weak in lane anyways. He's supposed to be a champion who scales well as the game progresses.

Malicious Metal1 votes

{quoted}

But he's intended to be weak in lane anyways. He's supposed to be a champion who scales well as the game progresses.

Vayne's supposedly weak in lane as well. So is Veigar. Yet they're able to get through the early game while still being able to get kills/push/survive ganks. Morde will need the tools to do just that. No renek/Riven like lane pressure but still being able to hold his ground when facing stronger champs.

stuartk111 votes

Vayne and Veigar are ranged champions, so they can farm with a bit of safety (and Vayne has great self-peel too). If you're up against a champion who intended to be pressuring the lane, then it's up to you to find ways around it, such as farming under turret, getting jungle pressure on your lane etc.

BastionKross1 votes

New Morde's shields aren't going to be your main defense anymore. Old Morde could get away with building tons of damage and relying almost totally on his passive to keep him alive. New Morde's passive is mostly there to shrug off poke in lane and to take the edge off damage in a teamfight. You'll want to have your HP and resists keeping you alive now, and to do that you'll need tank items. Think of it as closer to Yasuo shield now.

Full AP Morde will still be a thing, but it'll be like full AP Jax. You can do it, and have success with it, but you're wasting parts of the kit that a more balanced build would take advantage of. (Also, you won't die in a quarter of a second in a teamfight) That's why I feel that item 3078 is a good item on him now: He can take advantage of every stat it gives with the exception of +200 mana. The +10% crit chance could go either way, but it's not the end of the world since auto attacking is much more important to this new Morde, even if Q can't crit.

AD on the new Morde will add more damage to his Q, his E, and give him more mixed damage. Mixed damage will help keep his damage relevant late game while building defensive items, which he'll need to stay alive long enough to land some Qs.

JedenVojak1 votes

{quoted}

New Morde's shields aren't going to be your main defense anymore. Old Morde could get away with building tons of damage and relying almost totally on his passive to keep him alive. New Morde's passive is mostly there to shrug off poke in lane and to take the edge off damage in a teamfight. You'll want to have your HP and resists keeping you alive now, and to do that you'll need tank items. Think of it as closer to Yasuo shield now.

That's... actually really horrible.

Full AP Morde will still be a thing, but it'll be like full AP Jax. You can do it, and have success with it, but you're wasting parts of the kit that a more balanced build would take advantage of. (Also, you won't die in a quarter of a second in a teamfight) That's why I feel that item 3078 is a good item on him now: He can take advantage of every stat it gives with the exception of +200 mana. The +10% crit chance could go either way, but it's not the end of the world since auto attacking is much more important to this new Morde, even if Q can't crit.

Thing is, crit's only good on builds where you have a decent attack speed, and Morde's base attack speed too low; so the crit, mana and attack speed are all wasted on him. I almost think just buying the item 3044 and letting that sit in your inventory for the whole game would be better than building the full item. It's just too expensive and gives too many stats he doesn't want.

Remember, building not-AP wastes the most important part of his kit: his ultimate.

AD on the new Morde will add more damage to his Q, his E, and give him more mixed damage. Mixed damage will help keep his damage relevant late game while building defensive items, which he'll need to stay alive long enough to land some Qs.

I think once people learn that you can't just stand and trade auto's with Mordekaiser, hitting with his Q will be like trying to swat a fly with a sledgehammer. I have no confidence that the new Mordekaiser will be able to reliably hit with multiple auto attacks, and I feel he should be built under that mentality: AD is too expensive when you can't make auto attacks, so AP items are still probably the way to go.

It's gonna be like having one spell in lane :/

stuartk111 votes

You can always build your Phage into a Black Cleaver I suppose. Hardly optimal, but still.

BastionKross1 votes

That's... actually really horrible.

It got some buffs too. It now scales with HP so it's pretty powerful if you go bruiser Morde, and it won't decay under 25% so roaming around will be more painless. Always having that bit of a shield there is also invaluable when you're getting poked at in lane, especially when a single E fills that bit right back up afterward.

Thing is, crit's only good on builds where you have a decent attack speed, and Morde's base attack speed too low; so the crit, mana and attack speed are all wasted on him. I almost think just buying the and letting that sit in your inventory for the whole game would be better than building the full item. It's just too expensive and gives too many stats he doesn't want.

Attack speed is actually a pretty good stat on new Morde. The quicker you can get out those three Qs, the better. Of course you wouldn't want to focus entirely on attack speed, but it's certainly not wasted gold. Crit as well, since autos not empowered by Q will still give you a MS boost to help you stick and Morde's base AD at level 18 is higher than mega Gnar. That's really, really good auto attack damage right there, and makes item 3057 more cost effective even with the wasted mana stat.

Remember, building not-AP wastes the most important part of his kit: his ultimate.

I think his Q is now his most important ability. Low CD, absurd amounts of mixed damage. His ult got nerfed several ways, including having it's cast range hit hard and the stat bonuses the ghost gives being toned down on both sides. The dragon ghost part doesn't scale off AP at all. The ult is nice to throw on someone if they try to duel you, or as an ignite to kill off a near dead opponent, but you should really be focusing on landing Qs since that's where his damage is now.

I have no confidence that the new Mordekaiser will be able to reliably hit with multiple auto attacks, and I feel he should be built under that mentality: AD is too expensive when you can't make auto attacks, so AP items are still probably the way to go.

That's why you build item 3116 for the slow. item 3742 will also help you avoid getting kited and add damage. item 3044 will give you a MS boost. Landing several Qs on the same champion won't be easy, but you can itemize so that it's not impossible on a lot of champions either.

It's gonna be like having one spell in lane :/

It depends on your matchup in a solo lane. If the opponent is ranged, you'll probably want to max E and use Q to farm quickly. If your opponent is melee, you max Q. Ideally, you'd activate Q, farm two minions, slow the opponent with E, and run up and smack the enemy laner with the 3rd strike of Q. Duo lane, you max W first. The heal is fantastic sustain when combined with your passive, and it's base damage is surprisingly high.

JedenVojak1 votes

{quoted}

It got some buffs too. It now scales with HP so it's pretty powerful if you go bruiser Morde, and it won't decay under 25% so roaming around will be more painless. Always having that bit of a shield there is also invaluable when you're getting poked at in lane, especially when a single E fills that bit right back up afterward.

No, making the shield scale off of max HP is not a buff, it's actually a powerful nerf; think about it, whats the point of building HP if you have a shield? Conversely, making the shield scale off your hp effectively makes it redundant, since you are already building HP - in fact it makes it worse, since there's so much %max hp damaging stuff in the game (especially in top lane), that you want your actual HP to be as low as possible. Even with the new scaling, Morde has to build around 630 HP, just to equal the shield total he used to have before the change.

Also, the rate of shield reduction has to be taken into account:

Old Morde shield dropped at a rate of 3% of his shield max a tick New Morde shield will drop at a rate of 2% of his max HP - but since his shield is scaled off 25% of max HP, it will now drain at the astronomical rate of 8% of his shield max per tick - that's 2.67 times the shield drain of what it is on live; and the rate by which you charge shield was also reduced.

The shield change seems to be a nerf in every meaningful regard. If they really wanted to make Morde build tankier, they should have made the shield scale off his armor (makes sense, he is the man of metal after all) and open up the shield charging to all sources of damage (making item 3075 a good item for him, which is also super thematic).

Attack speed is actually a pretty good stat on new Morde. The quicker you can get out those three Qs, the better. Of course you wouldn't want to focus entirely on attack speed, but it's certainly not wasted gold. Crit as well, since autos not empowered by Q will still give you a MS boost to help you stick and Morde's base AD at level 18 is higher than mega Gnar. That's really, really good auto attack damage right there, and makes item 3057 more cost effective even with the wasted mana stat.

I don't know... you need to build a lot of attack speed. With his base AS of .6, you need to build 67% bonus attack speed just to be able to get 1 auto attack per second - and while the phage move speed boost is nice in theory, the reality is it takes him up to 5 more MS than live Morde right now. You tell me, how good is current Mordekaiser at chasing someone and hitting them with auto attacks?

I think his Q is now his most important ability. Low CD, absurd amounts of mixed damage. His ult got nerfed several ways, including having it's cast range hit hard and the stat bonuses the ghost gives being toned down on both sides. The dragon ghost part doesn't scale off AP at all. The ult is nice to throw on someone if they try to duel you, or as an ignite to kill off a near dead opponent, but you should really be focusing on landing Qs since that's where his damage is now.

The dragon ghost is only up every 7 minutes, if you even get it, or if you are around when your team takes the dragon. That seems more like a gimmick than any kind of real power. Even if dragon is down, you should still have access to enemy champions.

But yeah, from what I can see you are correct that the ult has been nerfed pretty hard. I'd have to get a feel for how much worse the ghost is but that's still a big chunk of upfront damage, and 650 range is still easier to hit with than 200.

That's why you build item 3116 for the slow. item 3742 will also help you avoid getting kited and add damage. item 3044 will give you a MS boost. Landing several Qs on the same champion won't be easy, but you can itemize so that it's not impossible on a lot of champions either.

item 3116 costs 3000 gold. If you bought item 1001 and item 3044, that cost will be delayed even further.

The top tier players in the LCS can make somewhere between 270-310 gold per minute, but I imagine for your average player it will fall quite a bit short of that (for incompetent players like me who can't CS worth a crap, it will probably be much worse). Morde won't be able to get that item from anywhere from the first 12-16 minutes of the game - so what are you supposed to do before that point? How are you ever going to hit with your Q then? Everybody talks about Morde like he starts the game with a Trinity and Rylai's, but he doesn't. That's a lot of gold to be spending on move speed/anti kite measures: meanwhile 2/3rds of all of the champions in the game have a slow, and many others have harder CC or escapes or multiple escapes in their kits, meaning all of those are available to them right from the start of the game.

Morde will not hit with his last Q unless he has summoner 4 or his opponent lets him. By the time he's got expensive items to try to help fix his issues, his enemies have also built expensive items to counter him, or else make themselves more awesome and delete him, or just the rest of his team, since he is still limited to slow walking toward them, only now is even slower, has less range, and does less damage at range.

Which leads me to my initial view of, he can't stay in range of opponents, which means he has to completely blow them up in an instant if he has even the most remote opportunity since he will not be able to make any kind of prolonged fight against them. That means building full AP burst.

It depends on your matchup in a solo lane. If the opponent is ranged, you'll probably want to max E and use Q to farm quickly. If your opponent is melee, you max Q. Ideally, you'd activate Q, farm two minions, slow the opponent with E, and run up and smack the enemy laner with the 3rd strike of Q. Duo lane, you max W first. The heal is fantastic sustain when combined with your passive, and it's base damage is surprisingly high.

We shall see, summoner.

BastionKross1 votes

making the shield scale off your hp effectively makes it redundant, since you are already building HP

It's an extra layer of protection that foils a lot of harass. Making it scale with HP means you can buy tank items that give HP and they're even more cost effective on new Morde because not only does it make him have more HP it also makes his shield larger. People whine and complain about how Yasuo shield keeps him healthy in the laning phase, but new Morde's shield is going to be even worse to deal with for opponents.

since there's so much %max hp damaging stuff in the game (especially in top lane), that you want your actual HP to be as low as possible.

That's like saying Vayne exists, so no one should ever build defenses when she's in a game. Just because the enemy top laner might have %HP damage, that doesn't mean the rest of his team does.

Also, the rate of shield reduction has to be taken into account:

That is barely a nerf. In battle, you won't worry about decay since you'll be constantly spamming abilities to refill it. Outside of battle it will decay faster, but it won't go below 25%. That's a pretty good trade, especially if the shield is big thanks to all the HP you're building.

If they really wanted to make Morde build tankier, they should have made the shield scale off his armor

It already does. It also scales off MR as well. The higher Morde's resistances, the less damage his shield will take. This is true of old and new Morde. This is why his shield scaling with HP is a huge buff, since a lot of tank items also give HP in addition to resists, Morde can make his shield stronger with the HP as well.

I don't know... you need to build a lot of attack speed.

Not really. You just need to attack quickly enough that the MS boost and slow overlap between the strikes so you're perma-slowing the opponent. Not a tall order.

You tell me, how good is current Mordekaiser at chasing someone and hitting them with auto attacks?

Pretty shitty. Mostly because old Morde can't take advantage of item 3116 very well since all of his abilities outside of his ult are AoE and apply the crappy slow. New Morde's Q is single target, and will apply the stronger slow with each strike. Also, old Morde doesn't build a item 3044 item either, which will help nullify the MS nerf he got. You could also run MS quints.

Morde won't be able to get that item from anywhere from the first 12-16 minutes of the game - so what are you supposed to do before that point? How are you ever going to hit with your Q then?

New Morde isn't meant to be a lane bully. He's more like a Nasus, sit back and farm up. If you're in a duo lane, most likely with a support or at least someone with a slow, right there is your key to hitting your Qs.

By the time he's got expensive items to try to help fix his issues, his enemies have also built expensive items to counter him, or else make themselves more awesome and delete him, or just the rest of his team, since he is still limited to slow walking toward them, only now is even slower, has less range, and does less damage at range.

New Gangplank barrels give him a MS boost and a slow to his opponents, exactly like what Morde receives with his items. GP can be kited, but if he blows up a barrel you're standing beside he's got you in a bad place. Morde has the same kind of situation, but he can constantly re-apply his slow and MS boost without having to worry about playing a barrel minigame. Also, you can't look at this in a vacuum. It's not a 1v1 game. Morde can, and should, take full advantage of any CC his allies bring. Most champions at least have a slow built in their kits, and if someone dives into Morde's team to go for the kill on his squishies, that's when Morde can easily get a free Q or two off.

Which leads me to my initial view of, he can't stay in range of opponents, which means he has to completely blow them up in an instant if he has even the most remote opportunity since he will not be able to make any kind of prolonged fight against them. That means building full AP burst.

Imagine it like this: You don't get close to new Morde. He'll murder you with Q hits even if you're full tank. So enemies will never get close to him and he'll never get close to opponents. Unless Morde stands right beside something the enemy teams wants dead like a fed mage or marksman. Unless a tank on your team initiates and provides a ton of CC. Unless someone on your team lands a hook to haul the opponent in close. Unless a teamfight breaks out and Morde just walks up to the nearest foe while the enemy team is distracted.

All of those things happen commonly.

Edit:

Even with the new scaling, Morde has to build around 630 HP, just to equal the shield total he used to have before the change.

item 3078 = 250 HP item 3116 = 400 HP

JedenVojak1 votes

{quoted}

It's an extra layer of protection that foils a lot of harass. Making it scale with HP means you can buy tank items that give HP and they're even more cost effective on new Morde because not only does it make him have more HP it also makes his shield larger. People whine and complain about how Yasuo shield keeps him healthy in the laning phase, but new Morde's shield is going to be even worse to deal with for opponents.

Unless he builds damage (i.e. not hp), or falls behind.

That is barely a nerf. In battle, you won't worry about decay since you'll be constantly spamming abilities to refill it. Outside of battle it will decay faster, but it won't go below 25%. That's a pretty good trade, especially if the shield is big thanks to all the HP you're building.

Since he has no W, and is slower, I fail to see how he's going to be "spamming spells". It's more like, He'll throw out one E which will charge his shield, and then twiddle his thumbs for 6 six seconds as his shield drains down.

Since his opponents will typically be ranged (at least in the mid lane, although I imagine this will still be the case if you sigh go bot lane), his shield will drain down much faster even if he's not getting hit by stuff.

It already does. It also scales off MR as well. The higher Morde's resistances, the less damage his shield will take. This is true of old and new Morde. This is why his shield scaling with HP is a huge buff, since a lot of tank items also give HP in addition to resists, Morde can make his shield stronger with the HP as well.

This is incorrect. While resistances may improve the net value of each point of shield, his total maximum shield will not increase with resistance items. Build item 3157 and item 3001, and his total maximum shield value will not change a bit.

Pretty shitty. Mostly because old Morde can't take advantage of item 3116 very well since all of his abilities outside of his ult are AoE and apply the crappy slow. New Morde's Q is single target, and will apply the stronger slow with each strike. Also, old Morde doesn't build a item 3044 item either, which will help nullify the MS nerf he got.

AOE's and Single target spells apply the same slow to the target. The only difference between the two, is the single target slow is 1.5 seconds vs 1 second. Also, you're forgetting that his old blade armor spell (his W) would constanly reapply the slow from his Rylai's; Mordekaiser no longer has this option as his W was deleted.

You used the word Nullify, and that is indeed correct, because New Morde with item 3044 is the same as old Morde without it.

You could also run MS quints.

Again, this is just trying to make up for what was lost - which just means Mordekaiser starts the race a lap behind.

New Morde isn't meant to be a lane bully. He's more like a Nasus, sit back and farm up.

Except he doesn't have a 5 second slow, %max health shred, free lifesteal, and an infinately stacking Q to do damage with while building full tank - he must build damage to have any kind of impact whatsoever.

If you're in a duo lane, most likely with a support or at least someone with a slow, right there is your key to hitting your Qs.

Well this will never happen, at least not in a game I'm playing, so I don't really have anything to say on it.

Also, every champion is better if there are other people around; that's like saying X champion is countered by CC.

New Gangplank barrels give him a MS boost and a slow to his opponents, exactly like what Morde receives with his items. GP can be kited, but if he blows up a barrel you're standing beside he's got you in a bad place. Morde has the same kind of situation, but he can constantly re-apply his slow and MS boost without having to worry about playing a barrel minigame.

Gangplank starts the game having ready access to Barrels. Even if he falls behind, or buys different items, he will always have that tool in his kit.

Mordekaiser does not start the game with a slow, or a move speed boost. Those come from items which he has to spend gold on and buy; items which everyone can build. Saying that "well he can build items for more fast" is meaningless when everyone else can do exactly the same thing. I mean, in top lane item 3078 +item 3153 is not uncommon, and in mid, the lane is too short for you to chase anyway.

Also, you can't look at this in a vacuum. It's not a 1v1 game. Morde can, and should, take full advantage of any CC his allies bring. Most champions at least have a slow built in their kits, and if someone dives into Morde's team to go for the kill on his squishies, that's when Morde can easily get a free Q or two off.

And you can't assume that simply because a "team game" that Mordekaiser will always have people around him 100% of the time. Playing Mordekaiser mid, there were many occasions where I had to fight 1v2 or even 1v3; I was able to survive those because Mordekaiser had a good amount of innate tankiness and damage. (It also helps when your enemies keep fighting you when you're at 30 health ignoring your 200 shield).

I live in solo queue - there is no such thing as teamwork. ;D

...stuff... All of those things happen commonly.

This is sometimes true, but i don't want to have to rely on that. It just feels like the new Mordekaiser is balanced around his best case, and I'm someone who always expects the worst. I don't like investing in things that I can't count on when the chips are down. I could reliably hit with my E and old W, but I can't say the same for the new Q - I can't even bounce it off minions anymore.

More importantly, just walking up to a guy and punching him in the stomach while your buddy holds him from behind is not cool or manly.

BastionKross1 votes

Unless he builds damage (i.e. not hp), or falls behind.

From all the play I've seen on the PBE, the passive seems to be strong enough to survive most of the laning phase without defensive stats so you can rush damage. However, if you're having a hard time in lane, nothing is stopping you from putting together a defensive item first. You're delaying your damage if you do, but that's what most other bruiser champs have to deal with as well. Get ahead, get damage. Fall behind, build tanky. Standard bruiser procedure.

Since his opponents will typically be ranged (at least in the mid lane, although I imagine this will still be the case if you sigh go bot lane), his shield will drain down much faster even if he's not getting hit by stuff.

Mid lane? New Morde is bot or top preferably. You could take him mid, but you could also take Garen mid. If you're going to solo new Morde, it's best to try and get a melee opponent. That's not to say you won't see ranged champs up top, but they're less prevalent up there. Bot lane you'll have a laning partner to help nullify your weakness.

While resistances may improve the net value of each point of shield, his total maximum shield will not increase with resistance items.

Those are the wrong items. You want these items now: item 3102 item 3068 item 3143 item 3065 item 3742 . They improve the passive two ways, with resists and HP. Your items give AP and magic pen, but you shouldn't need much more damage after your core two items, and can focus on entirely defensive items. Although Dead Man's Plate and Sunfire can add some damage too.

AOE's and Single target spells apply the same slow to the target. The only difference between the two, is the single target slow is 1.5 seconds vs 1 second. Also, you're forgetting that his old blade armor spell (his W) would constanly reapply the slow from his Rylai's; Mordekaiser no longer has this option as his W was deleted.

W and R applied a DoT, which used the weaker slow. Q and E used the slow with the lesser duration. Both of which are not ideal.

Again, this is just trying to make up for what was lost - which just means Mordekaiser starts the race a lap behind.

Indeed. New Morde needs to be able to stick to people, and the MS nerf hurt him a lot. But it can be nullified and overcome with itemization and runes. Just because you start the race a lap behind doesn't mean you lose the race.

he must build damage to have any kind of impact whatsoever.

He must build two damage items to have impact. The rest can be full tank. That's what it means to be a bruiser, you build some items for damage, and others for tank. The Nasus comparison was because you need to farm to reach the point where you can be a raid boss and achieve things, not to build them both the exact same way.

Well this will never happen, at least not in a game I'm playing, so I don't really have anything to say on it.

I'm surprised you've never played a match with a support in it before. The whole reason most of them exist is to hand out CC so that the marksman/Morde can take advantage of it.

Gangplank starts the game having ready access to Barrels. Even if he falls behind, or buys different items, he will always have that tool in his kit.

Same principle. Morde having an on-hit slow and MS boost will go a long way toward helping him stick to people, just like GP can. Morde will just take the longer to get there.

And you can't assume that simply because a "team game" that Mordekaiser will always have people around him 100% of the time.

Even if you take new Morde to a solo lane, after the laning phase is over you should always be around a teammate to proc W. This new Morde will most likely not be a solo-splitpusher champion. New Morde wants friends, not to go running off by himself.

This is sometimes true, but i don't want to have to rely on that. More importantly, just walking up to a guy and punching him in the stomach while your buddy holds him from behind is not cool or manly.

I'm going to ad-lib CertainlyT on this: Too damn bad. CerT told all the Morde players that this is what was going to happen, and that it wasn't going to be changed. This is his new identity now. If you don't like it, CerT suggests you find another champion to play. Myself and Malicious Metal and a bunch of other Morde lovers are trying to make this new build work the best it can. Because even if we constantly have to be humping a teammate's leg or relying on them for CC to do a lot of our job, we still want to play Morde. You can try your full AP build, and I hope it works out, but chances are it's not going to because Riot wants Morde to be bruiser and that's how they're balancing his numbers and kit. (It's like going full AP Gragas , Riot basically shut that down even though you can still do it) We don't want this new Morde either, but CerT is not a man that can be told "no". As demonstrated by his champion designs.

Solidair31 votes

His W does not stack.

It ONLY does damage when morde and the affected ally are in range of one another.

TwoD1 votes

that image makes so much sense, morde builds ie and so he sits his ass on the fountain hue

Admiral Will1 votes

Not to be rude but made a thread with 6 different builds and their damage and healing from items.

Each cycle includes all qs, 2 e's, and if there is an on-hit item 2 on-hits, or in some cases one Luden. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/kBkPnibF-morde-rework-ad-or-ap-math-inside

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

Honestly, I think Rylai's Rush into Luden's, into Rabadon's, with any other items as necessary.

Rylai's + Luden's is an absolute MUST. 10% Movement Speed will be so incredibly useful. I also think Alacrity Enchantment for the first 30 minutes or so will be a necessity because of how much MS Morde lost. I also think possibly MS quints might be a good choice as well.

Overall my most probable build will be the following: item 3116 item 3285 item 1306 item 3089 item 3146 item 3065

My reasoning is as follows: Rylai's gives Morde the stickiness to really stick to targets once he get's in range. Luden's gives the MS morde desperately needs, Swifties with Alacrity gives the highest in combat MS, and synergizes incredibly well with Luden's and gives nearly 415 MS after all is said and done. Rabadon's to really amp up Morde's Damage.

Gunblade, It now synergizes with morde's kit SO incredibly well now because almost all his abilities have AD scalings. ALSO, it gives a RANGED slow that helps morde get into range to stick onto targets (BotRK is another option, but gunblade gives better stats that morde can take advantage of) It also gives Morde loads of sustain in fights lategame.

Malcha1 votes

How do you feel about Guinsoo's on the new morde? I played around with it and the atk speed combine with the passive when you have a visage is actually pretty awesome.

UTIDAWA1 votes

Morde's entire kit is focused around his spells and primarily one spell that happens to be an auto attack modifier. He won't get any benefits from continuously autoing because his attack speed was lowered and he has no passive on hit effects without building them. It's better to find a way to reset your auto for your Q than to increase the speed at which you use your Autos which is why I like Titanic Hydra because Morde uses everything on it while it also having an auto reset.

Hawkefire1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xTIfR8Mn,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-08-17T14:37:17.774+0000) Snip

What runes and masteries do you run with this? Curious to do some testing myself.

WolfGoChompy1 votes

played about 25 morde games on both my smurf and diamond account.

Seems to me thatitem 3146 item 3116 is core.

My theory on him so far is morde is great pick vs comps that are dive intensive like nocs vi etc

third hit after geting hextech alone does about 1k =|

  • lifesteal vamp etc, rylais adds stick power as well as hextech, tri too expensive does less damage u have to hit something to get phage proc off.

i was thinking geting raptors or ohmwreckers after those 2 core? seems to work for me atm.

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