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How about not nerf Viktor and nerf the problematic champions

After3perma··13 votes·4,891 views

What about Jax, Irelia, Akali and Yasuo? Are they not gonna be nerfed? Instead all this community is complaining about, is how Tank Viktor Top is taking over top lane. How the fuck is Tank Viktor Top taking over top lane? It is a cheese pick that deals somewhat decent against Urgot and Aatrox and other low range, low mobility champions AFTER BUILDING IBG. Before IBG what is Viktor top? A low range, low mobility mage that can be ganked into oblivion and everybody is complaining about him. He isn't even that strong of a champion nowadays. He hasn't received any massive buffs that made everyone feel like "Oh shit, Viktor mid/top is back in meta and stronger than ever". Viktor top only came around because some guy thought to take Viktor top with IBG and it works and so everybody is playing him, and now everyone feels he is too strong.

Nobody complained about Gnar and Kennen top taking Frozen Mallet every game.

30 Comments

Jamaree9 votes

Just want to point out, number wise, at least at high elo, Vitkor is more of a problem.

Moody P9 votes

Viktor's 53% winrate and rapidly climbing pick rate - he's not a problem at all.

only counters m-muh aatrox and urgot

Viktor has a free lane into every single tank and juggernaut and it only gets worse after he gets his first upgrade. fucking LOL at people complaining about how X top laner is oppressing everyone else when Viktor is sitting in the EXACT same spot.

Akali isn't an issue. Yasuo isn't an issue.

Baron Barian1 votes

[deleted]

Moody P1 votes

oh sorry dude i forgot the epic /S so you would know it was sarcasim xd

fellow fortniter

Daddy Ants8 votes

The fact that a ** MAGE ** can build FULL TANK ITEMS and still be a damage threat is a big problem

Tank Ekko had to be nerfed into oblivion because he was an Assassin who built full tank while still doing assassin levels of damage.

Viktor shouldn't be treated differently.

"Tank Viktor" needs to be gutted, it's turbo cancer to play against.

Grimspeake7 votes

{quoted}

The fact that a ** MAGE ** can build FULL TANK ITEMS and still be a damage threat is a big problem

Tank Ekko had to be nerfed into oblivion because he was an Assassin who built full tank while still doing assassin levels of damage.

Viktor shouldn't be treated differently.

"Tank Viktor" needs to be gutted, it's turbo cancer to play against.

but aatrox and urgot get to build tank and do assassin levels of damage

Abandon1 votes

Alright I'm not saying one or the other is 'better' or more 'fun' to play against but on the point of Aatrox building tank and doing damage, I'm sorry but I gotta stop you there. He is the ONLY juggernaut that has to be build damage to get things done. His build is much more akin to that of a diver with a mix of assassin.

Just sayinnnnnn'.

ShadWooo8 votes

Building IBG+Tabi and AP+hp items afterwards is not a tank build ffs...

Sire Hippington4 votes

So Ez has been building fulltank ever since S3, nice to know...

The only defensive itme he gets is iceborn, which thx to the sheenproc can actually be considered an hybrid off/def item, how does that translate to 'full tank'???

The easy fix would be nefing/restricting iceborn for rangeds and buffing it a **bit **on melees as it really feels lackluster since the nerfs.

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJpbZRRR,comment-id=00040002,timestamp=2018-10-24T12:56:56.029+0000)

So Ez has been building fulltank ever since S3, nice to know...

The only defensive itme he gets is iceborn, which thx to the sheenproc can actually be considered an hybrid off/def item, how does that translate to 'full tank'???

The easy fix would be nefing/restricting iceborn for rangeds and buffing it a **bit **on melees as it really feels lackluster since the nerfs.

Where did I mention Ezreal?

Leetri3 votes

Ezreal builds/used to build most of the same "FULL TANK ITEMS" as "tank" Viktor but no one calls Ezreal a tank.

Sire Hippington2 votes

'Blue EZ' rushes Iceborn as first or second item since s3, so if Victor is called 'full tank' becuase he gets an iceborn amongst his AP items, then Eszreal is a fulltank aswell...

Rock MD1 votes

{quoted}

The fact that a ** MAGE ** can build FULL TANK ITEMS and still be a damage threat is a big problem

Tank Ekko had to be nerfed into oblivion because he was an Assassin who built full tank while still doing assassin levels of damage.

Viktor shouldn't be treated differently.

"Tank Viktor" needs to be gutted, it's turbo cancer to play against.

First off, Viktor doesn't build full tank. He builds IBG and maybe an MR item then he goes for AP items.

Second, there are plenty of champions that do this that are AD. Why is it a problem when an AP champ can do it?

Third, he's not a problem because he deals damage going tank. It's actually a lot more likely he's getting too much shield value.

Sharpest glasses1 votes

Second, there are plenty of champions that do this that are AD. Why is it a problem when an AP champ can do it?

Its a problem when this AP is a range.

Rock MD1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharpest glasses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJpbZRRR,comment-id=000400030000,timestamp=2018-10-24T14:14:57.222+0000)

Its a problem when this AP is a range.

Urgot is a ranged tanky damage threat and it took a year and a half, massive buffs, and an insane meta shift for him to be viable. He didn't get any complaints until he was finally meta, and even now he's getting defended by a lot of people.

Again, you can be annoyed with how mobile he is and hard it is to kite him, how much shield value he gets, or how much damage he does, but this idea that this build shouldn't exist because, "well we can't have this because my vague goalpost of game design says we shouldn't have mages building tank." is part of the reason we don't have nearly as many off meta builds anymore.

Moody P3 votes

urgot doesn't pelt you with unavoidable spammed damage and has a condition deeper than "be in range and blast them until oom" which is why he's far less obnoxious. also that Urgot isn't nearly as good at kiting because W slows him down. Yeah, he's strong, but he doesn't force a hard shut-out on you if you got counterpicked.

Urgot's just dumb because his base defense is a tiny bit too high; it being a favorable meta for him isn't his fault. Viktor is sitting in the same tier as Aatrox is; reducing match-ups to an annoying binary of "if you can all-in me with a point and click jump, I lose; otherwise, lube up."

I don't even care about what he's buying, but his Q spam for guaranteed and fairly hard-hitting poke is cancer.

Rock MD2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJpbZRRR,comment-id=00040003000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-24T17:01:57.795+0000)

urgot doesn't pelt you with unavoidable spammed damage

Yes he does, lmao. That's why he's a lane bully.

and has a condition deeper than "be in range and blast them until oom" which is why he's far less obnoxious.

Vlad has those same conditions and he's fine in the toplane. He doesn't even have mana. Nerf Vlad right?

also >that Urgot isn't nearly as good at kiting because W slows him down. Yeah, he's strong, but he doesn't force a >hard shut-out on you if you got counterpicked.

Exhaust Righteous Glory

The only thing of substance you listed is forcing a hard shut out if you get counterpicked, but that's simply the nature of toplane.

Urgot's just dumb because his base defense is a tiny bit too high; it being a favorable meta for him isn't his fault. Viktor is sitting in the same tier as Aatrox is; reducing match-ups to an annoying binary of "if you can all-in me with a point and click jump, I lose; otherwise, lube up."

Yes ranged matchups tend to do that.

The point is that if ranged matchups do that, and Riot has allowed ranged matchups, you're blowing smoke out your ass in an attempt to sound like a competent game designer.

If you just say, "I think Viktor does too much damage/is too mobile and there's no meaningful way to kite him out once he gets his Q/his shield refreshes too quickly for how high a value it is." I'd agree with you. He is overtuned and needs a numbers shift. If you wanna prattle about how he's some horrid cancer of a design that should never take that role, you need to have proof he's far and away worse than any other champion in his category when they're meta.

Moody P2 votes

don't straw man me. all of the issues anyone might have with Viktor can be solved by number changes

but some degree of change is obviously necessary given Viktor's sudden and explosive success in top lane

ShadWooo1 votes

Can they? I don't think so. I agree with Rock MD. All I see here is a toplaners crying about playing into ranged matchup, nothing else. I play Soraka top with IBG (only vs melee AD champs obviously) and they can't do anything against me either. I drove few of them (mostly Riven mains) to ragequit as well, others are trashtalking whole game while crying for jungle ganks and being babysitted all game just so they can "win lane".

Viktor top works mainly because majority of toplaners cannot play vs ranged champions. Be it Teemo, Urgot, Vlad or Rumble and Gankplank who aren't even ranged, but they often appear in the list of "toplaners that needs to be nerfed" here on boards. But go ahead and nerf/change his Q to scale with AP and not mana - I don't mind, he will still be able to use IBG effectively because that item is just overally too good in laning phase vs melee AD champions.

Ahris1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJpbZRRR,comment-id=0004000300000000,timestamp=2018-10-24T14:50:26.537+0000)

Urgot is a ranged tanky damage threat and it took a year and a half, massive buffs, and an insane meta shift for him to be viable. He didn't get any complaints until he was finally meta, and even now he's getting defended by a lot of people.

Again, you can be annoyed with how mobile he is and hard it is to kite him, how much shield value he gets, or how much damage he does, but this idea that this build shouldn't exist because, "well we can't have this because my vague goalpost of game design says we shouldn't have mages building tank." is part of the reason we don't have nearly as many off meta builds anymore.

For the record, Riot ALSO thinks this way and that is why there arent many off meta builds anymore.

I blame Riot for having the SAME kind of mentality as most people. If majority asks for nerf, they get nerfed even if the champ is balanced.

EDIT: Unless the champ is crazy popular and the mains who play the champ makes up large majority of aggressive people who has power to do stuff to Riot.

Similar to how Lee Sin rework was cancelled because of massive player base disapproval. If only more people are like so, there won't be reworks destroying champs.

ShadWooo1 votes

But ekko wasn't range and it was also a problem :D

And btw IBG got already nerfed in the time of tank ekko meta.

shockprimex1 votes

According to the boards mage items suck and item 3155 solves everything. Viktor shouldn't be a problem.

Violet Fields1 votes

{quoted}

The fact that a ** MAGE ** can build FULL TANK ITEMS and still be a damage threat is a big problem

Tank Ekko had to be nerfed into oblivion because he was an Assassin who built full tank while still doing assassin levels of damage.

Viktor shouldn't be treated differently.

"Tank Viktor" needs to be gutted, it's turbo cancer to play against.

And the fact that an assassin can build full tank items and still deal damage isn't a big problem? I've seen a rengar with just a duskblade and full tank items and still be able to one shot people.

Critmaster Garen7 votes

tank viktor is problematic.

they can nerf the build without nerfing his regular mage build pretty easily be replacing the mana scaling on his q with ap.

ShadWooo2 votes

I don't mind Viktor top and I think its overhyped and overreacted. I also haven't heard about riot looking to nerf him.

That being said, if sheeps wants to have mana nerf on his shield and give him AP scaling instead I am all for it.

Sharpest glasses1 votes

you can look at his stats in high mmr, its definitly not overhyped.

Baby Ghoul2 votes

Why can't we have both?

In reality they're all gonna get nerfed eventually, except for Yasuo of course.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Sharpest glasses1 votes

Yasuo is nerfed by the bone plate removal & chrysalis nerf

Evíl cookie2 votes

just give him -5 movementspeed (this will work trust me). I am a silver balance-pro. summoner 11

IPromiseTomorrow1 votes

I'm Glad Yasuo is being advised to get nerfed.

By lower Elos, and not higher skilled players.

His Winrate decreases the higher rank you go uwu

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