Any reason why Nasus W cooldown doesn’t start after the ability is finished??

After3perma·Apr 5, 2019·58 votes·15,035 views

I’ve said it so many times and I’ll say it again. Nasus with rank 5 W and 45% CDR can spam W every 1.05 seconds. It says 6.05 seconds on the tooltip but because it starts when W is pressed and not after the W has ended, you need to minus 5 off the tooltip cooldown amount.

1.05 second point and click W spam that slows targets upto 95% and reduces attack speed by 47.5%. Unless you play a champion that has 500 dashes like Riven or you dash/flash over a wall, you have no chance to get away from Nasus once he starts the W spam on you.

It is bullshit, toxic game design that completely shuts down the majority of the champions in the game with a press of a button.

78 Comments

Done25Apr 5, 201913 votes

Because the effect is bound to the enemy.

HateDaddyApr 5, 201911 votes

In most cases, he doesn’t reach this point until level 18 since wither is typically maxed last now because you need the shove power from E and it falls off heavily if you don’t max it second.

I don’t think anybody is arguing that wither can be frustrating, but it’s also one of the few spells left in the game that can actually shut down point and click DPS. As long as those things can exist, then so can things like wither.

GrokmirApr 5, 201910 votes

Probably becuase all abilities work like that?

Correct me if im wrong but i cant think of any abilities other than some buffs that dont go on cd after the ability has finished being casted.

And anyway if you really want to smack nasus it would hurt more to just give him flat cd nerfs instead

DyromicApr 6, 20192 votes

Yorick's ultimate is the only ability which comes to my mind.

letsfeedtogetherApr 5, 20199 votes

I agree. Idont think nasus is broken or anything like that but nasus w is 1 sec cd at max rank with 45% cd. Thats not balanced. Like "get hit by w and you die"

KalikainApr 5, 20198 votes

Are we down to complaining about nasus on these boards? The champ is at best, a decent silver top laner.

After3permaApr 5, 201923 votes

I’m not complaining about the champion in general, i’m only complaining about his cancerous W that stops you from doing anything.

SaezioApr 5, 201912 votes

Which only comes to play at level 13.... If you have 45% CDR and enemy has 0% tenacity + 0% slow resistance and they don't have a QSS to simply kite you to oblivion

After3permaApr 5, 201915 votes

So if I play a champion that doesn’t take Legend Tenacity and doesn’t built Swift boots but needs Ninja Tabi to stop his Q damage, I’m basically fucked you are saying?

Lazy GrandpaApr 5, 20193 votes

{quoted}

So if I play a champion that doesn’t take Legend Tenacity and doesn’t built Swift boots but needs Ninja Tabi to stop his Q damage, I’m basically fucked you are saying?

if you have a dash ability you can pretty much negate the worst part of his W, there's also such a thing as shit stomp the nasus early game so he wont reach the point where his 45% cdr 1 sec cd Wither will ever result in him running your team down. also usually you dont fight nasus 1v1 after the 15-20 minute mark if he's a little bit strong. any form of displacement, stun, root or suppress will result in him being useless aswell.

if you're not a top laner, jungler or midlaner then suck it up, it simply happens once every so often. there are worse things in the game than a nasus running you down in his ideal scenario

OtterlyLostApr 5, 20195 votes

That is not accurate. As someone who plays Tristana regularly, you jump away after he uses his wither and he just immediately catches up again because you can't run away. And Tristana's jump is not a short distance.

SaezioApr 5, 20195 votes

Why do you get in wither range at level 14+ in the first place? Your auto is longer than his W range? And even then. Wither range+ trist W max distance traveled is not a distance nasus will ever cover if you have even the slightest amount of peel.

OtterlyLostApr 5, 20192 votes

The target range of wither is 600 feet. Wither is maxed out second by most Nasus(according to Op.GG; I don't play Nasus so I'm going by what I see there) so its maxed out at level 13, not 14. Usually Nasus is top lane, meaning on average, he's about two levels higher than the ADC. Meaning when he's level 13, Tristana is, on average, level 11. Her AA range is 605. He literally only has to walk 5 units to be in range of her when his with is max level. IDK what do you mean how is he getting in range of me when, with his massive amount of MS, he only has to walk 5 units to nail me with a point and click ability. .-.

SaezioApr 5, 20195 votes

So, are you trying to 1v1 a splitpusher as an adc? Or are you trying to tell me a 13 level nasus can win teamfights if the adc knows how to kite? Not to mention all the damage nasus has to take to walk to you (the whole 600+jump distance) then get R'ed backwards and walk again. It's definitely your fault if you manage to get permawithered. You either tried to 1v1 him or didn't focus the correct target in the teamfight.

After3permaApr 5, 20192 votes

A split pusher that can press ult, use Q to damage and heal running into the teamfight and spamming W on the ADC and singlehandedly win the teamfight.

Yeah nice split push champion.

KVbqbFsC8eApr 5, 20192 votes

In what elo does that happen? Nasus is one of the worst teamfighters in the game.

hrooza dota Apr 7, 20191 votes

in low elo adc attack range is 100

dunder killApr 5, 20192 votes

[deleted]

SpiritOfOdysseusApr 5, 20192 votes

Stfu dude. It's people like you who set an awful example for League by pretending to be high and mighty over something you don't agree with or are confused over it yourself. There's literally no point in posting that garbage because it does not contribute to the topic nor are you respecting your fellow players.

It's kind of like how this Ryze in my game was kept throwing "?" at Nunu because of conflicted ideology. Ryze poke and POKED at this Nunu until he lost it saying "so awesome /mute Ryze doesn't work I have to mute my team." then proceeded to run it down. Quit instigating shit and grow up.

Edit: And before you try the classic turn-around rot that instigators love to use, I am contributing to a topic by relying to post that conflicted with the message.

Have a great day

Nanuk PihoqahiakApr 6, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That is not accurate. As someone who plays Tristana regularly, you jump away after he uses his wither and he just immediately catches up again because you can't run away. And Tristana's jump is not a short distance.

You can R him away, QSS, get Mikael'd, and jump. She also has high attack range, which will be in play by the time he's got max CDR. She probably has it the easiest out of a lot of other traditional ADCs.

OtterlyLostApr 6, 20191 votes

So I'm expected to use two to three long CDs and pray that my support bought a Mikael's? Just for one 6 second basic ability. Because that's fair.

And as I pointed out somewhere else, by level 13, nasus has his wither already maxed. Its range is 600 units. Tristana's range by 11, the average level she will be when a nasus is level 13, is 605. He literally only needs to walk 5 units to use it on her. He doesn't even have to walk that to use it on champs like Cait, Ashe, Varus, Jinx, Kog'maw...

The range is bigger than people believe; its definitely larger than I expected. And its a targetted ability that has a decently short CD. So you Mikael's, QSS, whatever, and that just means that the next time he runs into you, you're pretty defenseless and his low CD ability is available for him to just do it all over again.

Nanuk PihoqahiakApr 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So I'm expected to use two to three long CDs and pray that my support bought a Mikael's? Just for one 6 second basic ability. Because that's fair.

And as I pointed out somewhere else, by level 13, nasus has his wither already maxed. Its range is 600 units. Tristana's range by 11, the average level she will be when a nasus is level 13, is 605. He literally only needs to walk 5 units to use it on her. He doesn't even have to walk that to use it on champs like Cait, Ashe, Varus, Jinx, Kog'maw...

The range is bigger than people believe; its definitely larger than I expected. And its a targetted ability that has a decently short CD. So you Mikael's, QSS, whatever, and that just means that the next time he runs into you, you're pretty defenseless and his low CD ability is available for him to just do it all over again.

You're expected to not let him walk up to you, yes. By the time teamfighting has started, frontline are peeling Nasus and you have a (hopefully) decent support that will help cover you with the bare minimum of slows, cc, or displacement. There's fringe cases where allied top lanes lose to Nasus and he becomes ridiculous, but that's the case for every character in the game. Otherwise, his 'lategame' is vastly overrated and he's not even that good in teamfights unless so far ahead that there isn't an answer for it.

Tristana has it the best out of most ADCs. At least if she gets caught out, she CAN do something about it until she finds her team again. It's fairly irrefutable.

JohnnyNeverSinsApr 6, 20191 votes

After you jumped and he comes at toy just use your ULT and you'll throw him back to his base OH WAIT he will still catch up to you and slow you again and this time you neither have your W nor your R....I swear his slow is stupid.

boricCentaur1Apr 5, 20197 votes

Because it's on a bad champion it is probably the 2nd weakness ability on nasus and I don't even know about that since his e does help him a good bit.

Also his w is not that strong if it actually shut down champions nasus would be good but it doesn't like if your trying to fight nasus and got hit my the w it doesn't do anything since most top laners don't care about the attack speed reduction and the slow doesn't help either since they want to fight and it doesn't start high enough to help nasus escape. If nasus wants to fight again it's not good most of the time since most champions can just run away since it starts at 35% slow and most adc's can just kit hin since the attack speed reduction also starts low so most of there damage will already be done by the time nasus can get close if he even can.

Like the slow part sucks it doesn't do anything basically every adc can kit him because the slow is not that good 35 to 95 in 5 seconds is more then enough to run or kit him. The attack speed reduction is nice but again not enough to stop nasus from dying to auto attackers like jax. On paper nasus's w is good but in game it's not it takes too long to get a benefit from it like it's only bullshit for nasus since it's not good. If anything the w should be buffed.

HochelagaApr 5, 20197 votes

Wouldn't this be the same concept with Zilean's 99% slow ?

The thing is both abilities are a targeting spell. Meaning that you actually have to get close enough to the ennemies to actually be able to cast that spell. If you were close enough, then maybe you deserved it. Keep your distance from him. Don't try to duel him if you know that you're not going to win it.

After3permaApr 5, 20193 votes

Does Zilean let me fight back?

HochelagaApr 5, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Does Zilean let me fight back?

Well if he manages to land his double bomb on you. Idk ?

He can literally slow you by 99% for over 5 seconds if you keep the same condition as Nasus. I.e. 45% cdr

CorruptedScytheApr 5, 20196 votes

You can't start the timer after the effect ends because QSS/Mikael's/Black Shield/etc. exist.

But yeah it does suck a lot. I'm biased as an ADC main though.

BouwerApr 5, 20196 votes

You can CC him, spellshield, use mobility spells to get away... There is plenty of counterplay. If you don't have any of these tools then you can't fight him 1v1. Besides, it's only good if he outdamages you which is unlikely early/mid game

Apart from that, he IS a scaling champ. If you let him get to this 45% cdr with max W and enough stacks/items to outdamage you, I don't know what you expect.

We can also talk about morgana Q duration, I think that's even worse than this. Nasus slow is not a root and slowly builds up over the duration.

After3permaApr 5, 20192 votes

Don’t let Nasus get 45% CDR? Nasus takes Cosmic Insight + CDR rune stat so 6% CDR at level 1.

With this build Nasus gets 35% CDR with just Trinity Force and the runes.

A Bad NasusApr 5, 20195 votes

Name one slow that ties itself to enemies in the game that starts its cooldown after the effect wears off.

Sometimes FizzApr 5, 20194 votes

Same reason many other champs abilities go on CD when they are cast? It is pretty common...

Anchorit WracajApr 5, 20194 votes

Because every other champion spell works like that lol? To bad we dont have more slows in the game,with all this dashes+movement speed and wall jumpers.. holy...We need more champions with slows. Btw..what you want...to remove W slow and add some DASHES TO NASUS? No thanks buddy,il rather keep it this way.

RebonackApr 5, 20193 votes

Because this is how all ability cooldowns work?

The only ability that DIDN'T work like this was Kog's remade W before it got reverted. And it was a self-buff, not a slow.

hrooza dota Apr 5, 20193 votes

ok how about we nerf wither, but buff something else in exchange?

i would love to see the boards after that tbh [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

y0r1ckApr 5, 20192 votes

I disagree with you. I think you put your thesis at the end of your post and defended it before that, correct me if im wrong since the thesis is what I disagree with. You made some valid points that I can't refute, but there are some things that don't sit right with me. I think that the majority of champions do have some method of counterplay to his w, and I think he needs that skill in order to function.

I think the only champions that get really fucked by default by it are champions like tryndamere or yi, champions who rely on getting to you and autoing you to reduce the cd of their dash. Most champions will either have some way to get away after the w, or to avoid getting hit by it in the first place. They'll either have range, cc, or a dash to get away or keep nasus off of them. I think most champions can escape if they time their cc in that one second window, even ashe might just make it if she can ult him right as wither ends.

I do agree that it's bad game design to have an ability that punishes certain champions so much more than others. It's hell if you're playing certain matchups, and you can completely ignore it in others. If it were up to me, I'd make the ability weaker but more reliable, so it's effects are more consistent and thus easier to balance. Is that an ok compromise?

I would not agree to a flat nerf, but if you are ok with power neutral changes that make the ability more consistent and less annoying I would love to talk about ideas.

DeusVultApr 5, 20192 votes

Well its a scaling up to 95% slow and 47.5% AS slow, and that is only at rank 5. It slows for 35% (and 17.5% AS slow) when Nasus first hits W. only taking rank 5 W into account, it then adds 15% slow per second, so the 95% slow is only 1 second long. The 47.5% AS slow is only 1 second long.

Nasus ranks up W last. He needs Q or E to lane, and E gives him more damage/waveclear if he is going to possibly be dived. He also needs both 45% CDR and rank 5 W to get to that point. (granted Nasus build usually goes for 40+% CDR most of the time)

Lastly, its a single target spell. So if you are grouped with your team, it will only effect 1 person (hopefully that person has QSS). And if you aren't grouped with your team and you rely on solely MS and AS for your DPS, what are you doing alone in a side lane against a level 18 enemy Nasus???

After3permaApr 5, 20191 votes

So Nasus is allowed to destroy all other split pushers in the game?

I’ve tried Yorick, lost the split push. I’ve tried Fiora, lost the split push. I’ve tried Jac, lost the split push.

DoxkidApr 7, 20191 votes

Wait, you lost to Yorick as Jax? Isn't Jax one of his few late-game counters?

MrDrBuddApr 5, 20192 votes

Because it is not a self buff. it is just a targeted spell. The cooldown works the same way as any other normal cc ability.

VectrosApr 6, 20191 votes

I can't think of what it's called at the moment, but this is a case of listing off everything good about something to make it seem overpowered, while leaving out everything else. Yes, in this specific case, you're pretty boned.

We're also looking at a champion with a crap early game, easily kited, an over rated late game (seriously, he's best in mid game-Q farm stops meaning anything after probably 500 or so), doesn't offer much for a team outside of some armor/mr reduction on his E, and a single target slow. Realistically against decent opponents he doesn't do much.

So I suppose the answer to the question is...if they were to nerf it as you're asking, he's going to be 100% garbage. He'd need substantial buffs to counteract it; being able to stay on the 1 lone target that got too close is all he really has going for him, and there are a few ways to reduce it/get out of it.

After3permaApr 6, 20191 votes

How does Nasus have a crap early game when he gets 12% lifesteal for free at level 1 with increased healing because of Q stacks? Even Nasus W rank 1 is bullshit to deal with. Starts scaling at level 6 because Rito decided to give him URF ultimate 2 years ago without changing anything.

VectrosApr 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

How does Nasus have a crap early game when he gets 12% lifesteal for free at level 1 with increased healing because of Q stacks? Even Nasus W rank 1 is bullshit to deal with. Starts scaling at level 6 because Rito decided to give him URF ultimate 2 years ago without changing anything.

Again, you list the positives without thinking of the negatives. Yes he gets free lifesteal. He's also a melee without gap closing capability, and if he tries to spam his abilities to safely farm, he'll go OOM very quickly. It requires time and patience to build up to make his lifesteal worth while. There are many champs who counter him early, with enough poke to make him regret every Q he tries to farm-or outright stopping them in some cases (Teemo).

Nasus is meant to be a juggernaut that excels at 1 on 1 close encounters after having some time to farm. If allowed to do this, he'll WILL become a monster (though honestly not anywhere near the strongest lategame, plenty of other champions have more going for them without relying on farming for 20 minutes to do so). His team fighting is pretty meh; unless you spend an exuberant amount of gold to get items to counteract his weaknesses, in which case you'll end up a lot squishier anyways. Have you ever played as Nasus late game? It's not nearly as awesome as it would seem. Aside from the plethora of champions such as Kog Maw and Vayne who can rip him a new one, a team with a half decent amount of CC will chain CC him and kill him before he even does anything.

I'll say it one more time; when you think of all the great things on a skill or champion, you should also thing of their collective kit before deciding how good or bad it is. Just as an example, Garen's W provides him with on demand 60% damage reduction+ tenacity, as well as boat loads of permanent armor and MR, and he gets free true damage! His E can crit with the damage going up to around 2000 late game!

He's also a sub 50% winrate champion because I neglected to look at his various weaknesses and shortcomings. Oops.

SylaelqueApr 11, 20191 votes

Here an example against Nasus ; https://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/3990798774/2031123434525184?tab=stats

I was only carry in my team and it was 2v8 game with my support still I was carrying so well until Nasus start to spam his W on me. He was refiling his hp even against "grievous wounds" and he was only need 2 skill damage to kill anybody without use his E with this survivability not even need damage items.

I was out played him but beaten by his mechanics! It is so unfair. [sg-janna]

CyanSolution247Apr 11, 20191 votes

Nasus's W just reinforces the fact that dashes and flashes are way better than traditional move speed increases as both methods of catching and escaping.

Gamefreek19May 2, 20191 votes

master yi can bypass wither . you can buy merc treads to make wither last less .. merc scim to remove wither etc. if you let nasus scale in the first place you lose thats just how it goes