We nerf all champions, except Riven and Vayne. - Rito balance team

After3perma·Apr 10, 2019·179 votes·24,578 views

Riven over 50% winrate for 8 years straight. The champion with the most OTPs in Master+. The champion that dominates lane from level 1 and builds one item and becomes a super tank becoming unkillable. The champion that has 4 dashes with a stun with a spammable shield. The champion that has execute damage in an AOE.

Vayne over 50% winrate for god knows how long but now over 53% win rate with a 24% play rate for over 3 months. Starts scaling from level 6 onwards with the Q refund bullshit. Permanent stealth with her ultimate with mobility, good luck trying to right click her. Gets extended ultimate duration just for damaging champions not for killing them. Destroys squishies in 2 hits and destroys tanks because 14% maximum health true damage every 2 attacks is balanced in Rito's eyes. Self peel with a knockback and stun.

82 Comments

Death by GlamourApr 10, 201938 votes

and buff renekton which begins the cycle aknew...

The thigh guyApr 10, 20197 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aRwLGY3r,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-10T14:48:29.678+0000)

and buff renekton which begins the cycle aknew...

Don’t worry. More urgot buffs soon. XD

Spicy RiceApr 10, 201917 votes

I love getting cc'ed and oneshot by a guy who proc conq faster than i can blink

Death by GlamourApr 10, 20194 votes

Seriously though, what to watch out for are vayne "counters" ala draven and cait getting buffed instead of nerfing vayne. Its what they did at the start of season 7.

Minimac2000Apr 10, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aRwLGY3r,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T14:49:57.328+0000)

Don’t worry. More urgot buffs soon. XD

No way. I like urgot but he's in a good spot rn. Even a bit on the OP side. No more buffs plz no whyyyyyy

Vore Me MommyApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No way. I like urgot but he's in a good spot rn. Even a bit on the OP side. No more buffs plz no whyyyyyy

Urgot is getting nerfed in 9.8 lol

Minimac2000Apr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Urgot is getting nerfed in 9.8 lol

Good, he needs it

UtálomEztA nevetApr 11, 20191 votes

And when, they totally ruin the balance again, comes the Darius buff too, to make everything right :D

1shotALLdeadGRApr 11, 20191 votes

i just played against rene...shit is actually unbalanced...like...is riot even trying to bring balance???...dude use w and has 3 conq stacks in 0.00000001 secs...then he procs conq and heals for 400 hp with one q...next is darius...who for some reason from the beginning of the game can deal 190-200 dmg with one w and his passive that lasts 7 secs and deals 200 dmg as well if it is only 3 STACKS...then...garen buffs...because why not...I don't get what riot balance team is thinking but the game is getting worse and worse

SweedishGunnerApr 10, 20198 votes

There's a Cass buff too, it's like they forgot what she just did to pro/high tier play.

Sir SaltarinApr 10, 201928 votes

Worse: fucking Cassiopeia buffs reeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

InfernapeApr 10, 201921 votes

I hear you don't like being able to use your mobility spells.

Sir SaltarinApr 10, 20192 votes

What mobility spells lmao, I play inmobile ADCs

Jeddy017Apr 10, 201915 votes

summoner 4

InfernapeApr 10, 201910 votes

Ding ding we have a winner.

Your prize is death... by snu snu

Jeddy017Apr 10, 20195 votes

[sg-jinx]

[sg-janna]

[sg-jinx]

[sg-janna]

[sg-jinx]

RaiyzaApr 10, 201918 votes

Cuz LC$ FLA$$HY PLAY$!!

Literal IRL TreeApr 10, 20192 votes

Even though Riven and Vayne aren't good in LCS

RaiyzaApr 10, 20192 votes

My statement was sarcastic.

But, for what it's worth, Vayne has been picked a few times and so has Riven.

EeliAzzerApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

My statement was sarcastic.

But, for what it's worth, Vayne has been picked a few times and so has Riven.

remember when shaco was broken? he had 0 LC$ play. literally 0. so does champions played there matter for the balance. i think it should not. since like 0.0001% of the players will ever play there.

they should focus balancing on solo q where most people play.

now pls stop refering to LC$ as a way to justify a champions overpoweredness

RaiyzaApr 11, 20192 votes

Ok...again, my LCS comment was sarcastic. Im fully aware. Lol.

I agree with you, though. They should not balance based on pro play. Pro play is an entirely different game, to a good extent.

3TWarriorApr 11, 20191 votes

shaco kind of relies on his opponents making mistakes...

just like Volibear

HeeroTXApr 10, 20196 votes

Vayne had a 60% winrate in 10 games in LPL. (she also got picked mid a few times across all pro play).

I think Riven is the difference between solo-q-carry and Pro-play. Even pros will tell you that actual pro-play and solo-q (not just US solo-q) are not directly comparable. Which is also why there used to be a specific 5v5 ranked queue.

SyrileApr 10, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Even though Riven and Vayne aren't good in LCS

Funny how Vayne has solo carried in LCK and LPL both? Riven as well. Recently, even.

Literal IRL TreeApr 11, 20191 votes

I said lcs in reply to the person.

Tin ObliteratesApr 10, 201916 votes

time to nerf Aatrox

GripaAviaraApr 10, 20195 votes

Irelia

EonslegacyApr 10, 20191 votes

If he is viable, he is broken... because that champion isnt designed in a way to function without insane damage on the q. He needs re reworking tbh. Those lock out frames combined with the DECREASING size but INCREASING damage AND the SWEET SPOT leads to insane theoretical damage, which he is either balanced around, or not, either way causes massive problems.

Tin ObliteratesApr 10, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If he is viable, he is broken... because that champion isnt designed in a way to function without insane damage on the q. He needs re reworking tbh. Those lock out frames combined with the DECREASING size but INCREASING damage AND the SWEET SPOT leads to insane theoretical damage, which he is either balanced around, or not, either way causes massive problems.

He was only ever broken in pro play because of the stupid shit he could pull off with his revive, in SoloQ he had a 49-51% winrate (that also went down with game length) with the first few nerfs he received due to his pick/ban status in pro, but then they nerfed him even further so he'd be a bit more reasonable in professional play while they figured out a way to fix him (which they'll apparently be doing on patch 9.9 by making larger changes to his R).

I get why they did it, but it's still a bit frustrating.

ASilenceof3PartsApr 10, 20192 votes

I love everyone complaining because champions that were pick bans for literally 8 months got nerfed to maybe slightly weak states but yet those same people complain away when tanks, which have been gone from the game for a year now, are even mentioned in buffs.

Leave aatrox the way he is. Nerf urgot back down. Let some new picks actually be good up there for a bit, preferably ones we haven't seen in a while like tanks, fiora, camille, gp, etc.

Tin ObliteratesApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I love everyone complaining because champions that were pick bans for literally 8 months got nerfed to maybe slightly weak states but yet those same people complain away when tanks, which have been gone from the game for a year now, are even mentioned in buffs.

Leave aatrox the way he is. Nerf urgot back down. Let some new picks actually be good up there for a bit, preferably ones we haven't seen in a while like tanks, fiora, camille, gp, etc.

Aatrox was only ever a pick/ban in pro play as I said already, a 50% winrate that goes down with game length isn't broken the last time i checked and Aatrox having one of the lowest winrates in Top right now isn't just 'slightly weak', either. He isn't even that strong early anymore when compared to other earlygame champs and he only gets worse as the game goes on. (Also when did I ever even mention tanks??)

He was perfectly fine in SoloQ but was straight up gutted because of pro play, I don't see how you find that at all reasonable. (Urgot I understand because he was one of the best tops in both pro and soloq before his nerfs)

DessemApr 11, 20192 votes

I think this is one of League's most annoying issues, in that I hardly care for pro play but my main Lissandra gets completely gutted because she's strong in pro play. Impressive waveclear indeed.

It's absolutely frustrating to see champions who are OK or maybe slightly strong in soloQ get gutted "because pro play" but problematic champions are passed over and left as-is because they're not a big pro play problem.

I'm almost convinced Riot's aiming to balance the game around ~25 champs, and the reason we see Cassiopeia buffs is because Riot's comfortable seeing the same old plays.

Heavens forbid a pro picks Veigar and consistently wins with him, he'll probably be gutted before LCS is even over.

SęraphApr 10, 20199 votes

In all seriousness if they nerfed EVERYTHING I think the the game would be so much more enjoyable.

EonslegacyApr 10, 20192 votes

it wouldnt be sadly. Soraka and such, Sona, enchanters would become broken do to cds vs mana vs health costs and such. the longer it takes to kill the more spells they get to cast. Auto attacks would become MORE important over abilities, so adcs would feel overbearing again. If they nerfed the autos from adcs, then they would feel useless again and youd rather have something like..... you guessed it DrMundo on your team since they PHYSICALLY couldnt kill him. Nerfing is also buffing the counter to something to a certain extent. If you nerfed health, then you buffed damage, if you nerf everything then everything is equal. If you nerf ONLY damage, then healing becomes broken and so on.

3TWarriorApr 11, 20191 votes

most of them are broken by items and runes reforged. The kits themselves are not that much of a threat. For sona, unless you gut her numbers completely, she scales by her team-fighting capabilities and added damage to allies

almost everyone says that things went completely wrong in late season 5, though season six was still in a good spot for Riot's "expectations" of the game

Nea104Apr 10, 20199 votes

They just removed my post, apparently I wasn't respectful enough. Sorry, I'll say it in a better way.

Season 8 has been a disaster, and they are responsible for that. They proved they lack in so many fields and ways. This is about skills and competence.

After that, they kept going on in that absurd way, making it worse with patch notes like "More damage!", about Mundo DrMundo . That's beyond skill and competence; that's about not having understood anything, and not feeling ashamed about it. So, I'm talking about dignity.

I hope it's clearer now.

pinchechingonApr 11, 20191 votes

The thing is that Mundo has so many ways of countering. All he really can do is throw q's and run at you. If he does manage to catch up, then his way of fighting is by sticking onto you just like other tanks, maoki being the prime example. He's a horribly easy champ to play against.

Nea104Apr 12, 20191 votes

I agree, but I was questioning their absurd "philosophy" about buffing damage every single time, for everyone. And even commenting "More damage!" in the official notes, making a fool of themselves. It's shameful :D

l love AhriApr 11, 20195 votes

"but Zed was OP for 4 patches! He's top priority"

"Oh and nerf Morgana while at it"

LUL Rito games

Daddy AntsApr 10, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Vayne over 50% winrate for god knows how long but now over 53% win rate with a 24% play rate for over 3 months. Starts scaling from level 6 onwards with the Q refund bullshit. Permanent stealth with her ultimate with mobility, good luck trying to right click her. Gets extended ultimate duration just for damaging champions not for killing them. Destroys squishies in 2 hits and destroys tanks because 14% maximum health true damage every 2 attacks is balanced in Rito's eyes. Self peel with a knockback and stun.

51.4%

Go look at repertiors twitter.

XJ99999999999999Apr 10, 20192 votes

id like if riven had less animations cancels. when the game needs to be balanced around casual, pro play, and one tricks, its a bit of an issue because the only people that do the tricks are one trips/pro play. casuals are pretty much fucked and even one tricks that are in bronze-plat/diamond would have to be as good as challenger riven players to play the champ if she was nerfed for the highest levels of play (animation canceling 24/7)

sinZsoulApr 10, 20192 votes

I'd like to point out two things:

aatrox is pretty much already riven without animation cancelling
go watch some box box Caitlyn videos (you're welcome btw). Literally a montage of animation cancels on a champ not riven. Does that mean we should remove those cancels from cait? Riven's strength right now is not actually from animation cancelling, but her ability to fill a lot of roles and lane well. Bruiser itemization allows her to off tank initiate. She's always had good DPS and can also play assassin situationally. Animation cancelling only lets her do it fractions of a second faster and that really doesn't matter in the majority of scenarios. It can, don't get me wrong, but not anywhere close to being enough that it's game warping.

Edit: I do want to add in that riven may need nerfs, but if we see the meta shift more towards tanks she'll naturally fall off.

SyrileApr 10, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I'd like to point out two things:

aatrox is pretty much already riven without animation cancelling

go watch some box box Caitlyn videos (you're welcome btw). Literally a montage of animation cancels on a champ not riven. Does that mean we should remove those cancels from cait? Riven's strength right now is not actually from animation cancelling, but her ability to fill a lot of roles and lane well. Bruiser itemization allows her to off tank initiate. She's always had good DPS and can also play assassin situationally. Animation cancelling only lets her do it fractions of a second faster and that really doesn't matter in the majority of scenarios. It can, don't get me wrong, but not anywhere close to being enough that it's game warping.

Edit: I do want to add in that riven may need nerfs, but if we see the meta shift more towards tanks she'll naturally fall off.

Aatrox has animation cancels. They are just harder to do than most people can pull off. So does Lucian. But, they are not the problem at all. Animation cancelling adds skill to the game and is not really a problem generally. The meta is the problem, like you said.

Hayaishi2Apr 10, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox has animation cancels. They are just harder to do than most people can pull off. So does Lucian. But, they are not the problem at all. Animation cancelling adds skill to the game and is not really a problem generally. The meta is the problem, like you said.

But perhaps they were designed with that in mind. Riven wasn't.

22 Caliber RifleApr 11, 20192 votes

You watch riven get a new skin before they nerf her

Best Ekko NAApr 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You watch riven get a new skin before they nerf her

They aren't going to nerf Riven because she's not broken. She functions exactly how she is supposed to.

22 Caliber RifleApr 11, 20191 votes

Um... bud... I did not say she was broken. Although if you want a realistic answer... ok then.

Considering that for the past 3-4 seasons she has had on average a 50% which is pretty good in which she should be balanced although with the recent patch updates she has being receiving a lot more attention due to the lack of changes in which has caused this 55% + win rate, if you think riven is balanced because of this high win rate, I would be concerned.

BTW naturally riot makes a skin for champions then immediately nerf them one patch later... e.g last season, puke, aatrox and multiple other champions. It’s a shit trend that riot does and annoys the community a lot

ßurstApr 11, 20192 votes

She hasn't. in fact in the past 3-4 seasons she's probabl avg about a 47-48% winrate.

UtálomEztA nevetApr 11, 20192 votes

Rito Gems cant balance... There was a nerf on Akali when they nerfed her to the ground.... Did Akali need nerf back then? YES. Did Akali need THAT nerf??? HELL NO. Then they realized that they went too far... Asked anybody about it? Why should they?! They work is so perfect as we can see.... This company is worse every year and more self-conscious....

They are so proud of their work and proud of the community as they say.... BUT listen to them and ask REAL questions?! Only alabi work...

3TWarriorApr 11, 20191 votes

pride comes before the fall