Do i really HAVE to use Thunderlord's? Whenever im playing and people don't see me using it immediately--immediately "Why aren't you using thunderlords?" "Use fucking thunderlords idiot" "Lol our [x] isn't using thunderlord's" on champions that don't expressly require Bond, or windspeaker, or DFT, etc.
Do i HAVE to use it....? -.-
PhantomGG19 votesuntill the other ones no longer suck, pretty much, even supports are taking it.
Ralanr5 votesWhich really doesn't make sense to me.
Dar Raksada10 votesWhich really doesn't make sense to me.
It's great poke for poke supports.
Ralanr3 votesIs 
a poke support?!
Dar Raksada1 votesIs
Did I say he was? Someone said even supports are taking it, but that makes sense as it's good on poke supports, and very strong for early all ins as seen on leona, leo can almost single handedly kill someone at lvl 2-3 with it and ignite.
To answer your question, Thresh isn't a poke support, but he is a support that can poke. Not sure how thunderlords interacts with his E autohit, but I'd go bond of stone on him. Do note I never play him though.
Benjaling3 votesI sometimes take it on 
. He's already pretty underrated and that extra damage can really surprise the enemy ADC, sometimes enough to kill them.
Abyssphere3 votesI sometimes take it on
Bard is the support I think it's best on. His burst is ridiculous with it.
RisenDarkKnight1 votesThunderlords has up to 180 BASE damage, as in it doesnt' need ap or ad to do a lot of damage. It's totally viable on every support. I prefer bond of stone on tank supports and windspeakers on healing/shielding supports, but thunderlords is great on poke supports.
Woodakoodashooda11 votesMany champions benefit more from other masteries. Take DoT champs like 
for instance. Deathfire Touch is, in my opinion, more effective on them.
And has everyone forgotten about crit hit champions with Warlord's Bloodlust?
And what of the Jg like 
who deal massive damage with successive auto's? Fervor of Battle goes nicely with 
and 
.
And you have your healing and shielding supports who grant the adc an edge with Windspeaker's Blessing. And the Tank supports that grant their allies additional sustain with Bond of Stone.
Then you have your tanks and fighters who stack so much health that Grasp of the Undying becomes a powerful weapon.
Divewing8 votesIgnore the sheep. They can only see what their OP-tinted-glasses let them see. You pick what you think is best, I assume since youre asking this question youve had a thorough look at the new masteries, and have very specific reasons for picking whichever ones you do. If that is the case, don't question your judgement based on what other people say, YOU decide for yourself what the "correct" decision is
Jbels10 votesIgnore the sheep. They can only see what their OP-tinted-glasses let them see. You pick what you think is best, I assume since youre asking this question youve had a thorough look at the new masteries, and have very specific reasons for picking whichever ones you do. If that is the case, don't question your judgement based on what other people say, YOU decide for yourself what the "correct" decision is
OP-tinted glasses? So wanting to use what's working the most efficiently right now makes people assholes? God forbid people play a game to win. It's not their fault Thunderlords is the only good offensive Keystone mastery right now. That being said, I can't wait until next patch so Riot can put the diverse back in "Game Diversity"
Divewing6 votesAt which point did i say they were assholes? The keystones were fine as they were when released honestly, but it's because of these sheep they were nerfed. The only change TLords has had has been the bugfix and cooldown buff. It has always been this potent, especially on burst champions, the difference is, now DFT isnt the flavour of the month anymore, so people actually tried it.
Besides. I am specifically referring to the people who pick Tlords based on the logic that it is: "OP", who are usually easy to distinguish because it'll be on someone like (80% of the time hes using Tlords, the reasoning is that its OP)
Now you might call me a hypocrite since I've swapped my Azir masteries to suit TLords over DFT, but I do have a reason for it.
It's because the early game snowball is too much, I don't have the luxury of getting to late game RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY enough to WARRANT passing up the early game boost TLords offers. Funny thing is my first ranked penta of "s5" on him was with the nerfed DFT, it killed their mid laner (
) who had managed to escape the fight zone before I could finish her with an AA.
In summary, it's not about the choice itself as much as the why the choice was made.
Jbels5 votesAt which point did i say they were assholes? The keystones were fine as they were when released honestly, but it's because of these sheep they were nerfed. The only change TLords has had has been the bugfix and cooldown buff. It has always been this potent, especially on burst champions, the difference is, now DFT isnt the flavour of the month anymore, so people actually tried it.
Besides. I am specifically referring to the people who pick Tlords based on the logic that it is: "OP", who are usually easy to distinguish because it'll be on someone like
Now you might call me a hypocrite since I've swapped my Azir masteries to suit TLords over DFT, but I do have a reason for it. It's because the early game snowball is too much, I don't have the luxury of getting to late game RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY enough to WARRANT passing up the early game boost TLords offers. Funny thing is my first ranked penta of "s5" on him was with the nerfed DFT, it killed their mid laner (
In summary, it's not about the choice itself as much as the why the choice was made.
Yes, and that choice was made because Tlord is objectively better right now than any other offensive keystone mastery on champions who used to take DFT and Warlord's. It's not OP-tint glasses, it's the other Keystones being weaker. Nobody bashes pro players for sticking to meta, so why should you bash players on live for doing it?
Divewing2 votesActually that is an incredibly broad generalisation that proves my point. You've dug yourself a hole now, because all I have to do is find 1 champion minimum who previously used DFT or Warlords and now uses Tlords wherein the former is predominantly better. Not even that I just have to prove the other keystones aren't weaker.
Also, I don't bash pro players for sticking to meta for 2 reasons: 1- it's their job 2- most of the time they don't have much of a choice in what they play, it's usually what the coach selects for them (unless you are Faker or in the LPL)
Bro I don't know why you're getting so upset over this. You're having an argument with me based of a comment I made from the point of view of my ideology. You'd be flattering yourself if you expected to be able to change my opinion with some scarily feminist-esque logic. I gave the guy my opinion, that's all I really wanted to do, I'm not really interested in having a debate with a guy who creates arguments around words he made up that I never said, especially at 2 in the morning.
Lazypeon1003 votesHe was probably annoyed with how you said it. You came off as if everyone who follows the meta are sheeps. You're also pretty much saying people are not able to think for themselves.
Those are both insulting and makes your argument seem questionable since you started with an agressive tone.
Divewing1 votesWhat kind of person who can think for themselves are that critical of someone? See the kind of people who chose Thunderlords from an analytical, logical, and critical perspective, aren't usually that rude. The people who simply choose Thunderlords because of reasoning little more than: "Everyone else does", ARE the type of people who behave as such.
And for the record, people who follow the meta simply for the sake of it, yes, they are sheep.
Lazypeon1001 votesI'm sorry? I'm pretty confused with what you're saying now. My comment was based purely on what you had said. You made it clear that people who follow the mrta are "sheeps" in a very insulting manner. You asked why they were arguing, and I gave my observation as to why. You were in fact very rude with your original post which set the tone for the rest of the conversation.
The fact is, people can look at the keystones objectively and decide that maybe the meta is the way it is for a reason.
I personally like to experiment with the masteries (most interesting ones are stormraiders surge and grasp of the undying in my opinion) but I will adhere to the meta if I want to play seriously at all. Thunderlords, for a large majority of champions right now, is objectively better. The increased burst and early game damage is much stronger than what any of the other keystones offer currently.
And Riot knows that. That's why several of the other keystones are getting buffs on the PBE. Those changes have been there for weeks now since rhe PBE cycle is longer than usual due to the holidays.
Divewing2 votesthe OP made specific mention to people abusing him for not taking thunderlords. I am acknowledging that with the comment regarding such people as sheep.
Please dont judge my comment by itself, it was a response, not a generic statement
Lazypeon1001 votesI see where the confusion is. I think the way I, and a of other people, read your first statement was that it was being directed at the OP. Which is fine, but it also came off like it was telling the OP to ignore everyone else.
It's clear to me now that's not how you meant it, so sorry.
Divewing1 votesIt's fine. The whole thing spiralled out of control cos 1 guy got triggered.
FioraWillCarry1 votesNow you might call me a hypocrite since I've swapped my Azir masteries to suit TLords over DFT...
lol I did this too but not because of Thunderlords. I did it for the CDR which is extremely important for my playstyle as Azir. CDR was deep in the cunning tree so the only way to get it was making the cunning tree my primary tree for him. I actually preferred the ferocity keystone for him. Forgot what its called...too lazy atm to look it up but its the one with 50% bonus AD 20% AP or something on every attack.
Crossette4 votesPeople.
i'm just trying to have fun
Really? Stop only playing meta shit then.
Man I hate this community sometimes.
Packun Flower3 votesThunderlords is THE most powerful keystone, there is a reason literally EVERY single player is taking this Keystone on every single champ.
Riot buffed it, they buffed it waaaaaaaaaay to much and its made every other Keystone pretty much useless. This is typical for the Riot Balance team. They focus on one or two aspect ofs the pre season and focus on centering the new meta around it.
It happened with Flash.
It happened with crit.
and now its happening with Thunderlords.
They aren't going to nerf it, they already stated they will NOT be toning down Thunderlords in anyway but instead be looking into MAYBE buffing the other keystones. Maaaaaaaaaaaybe.
BladeSteel3 votesThe buffs for the other keystones are already on the PBE (have been there for weeks now) and will most likely be coming out in the next patch.
Axis the Dragon2 votesIts only actual buff though was decreasing its cooldown from 30 to 20, I think? IIRC the only other changes were bugfixes.
The other masteries got hella nerfed, though. DFT especially.
Seenan1 votes[{quoted}](name=Axis the Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xFvVJB0K,comment-id=00110001,timestamp=2016-01-06T18:45:12.588+0000)
Its only actual buff though was decreasing its cooldown from 30 to 20, I think? IIRC the only other changes were bugfixes.
The other masteries got hella nerfed, though. DFT especially.
Also increased the AD aspect of it from 20% -> 30%.
Scramrail3 votesThunderlords is fantastic in the early and to a lesser extent mid game and allows you to really dominate lane, especially if your opponent doesn't have it.
That said, once mid-late game rolls around, there are better options, especially if you didn't translate that Thunderlords into a snowball in your favor.
SeargentAnus1 votesGood thing games almost never hit late game.
Scramrail2 votesEh, in my experience in Normals the game isn't nearly as snowball-y as the boards make it out to be. Way back before I committed to playing just Poro King and more recently bot games (since I don't have the time to invest in a normal), my games were routinely lasting 35-45 minutes. That's more than enough time for other Keystones to take the lead over Thunderlords in some roles, especially for ADC and tanky champions.
Vicarious1171 votesWell.... I mean I agree that Thunderlord's isn't a necessity and there are in fact other options... however the average game length above mid silver is like 25-35 mins I believe....
Feathermane3 votesDelete masteries, please. They never encourage different playstyles, just offer you one more thing that you can fuck up, and give you a math problem that one person solves, and everyone copies the answer.
Ferus and Ferrum3 votesYes.
DarthSpectrum3 votesPretty much. If you do the calculations, the Fervor and Death Fire only overtake Thunderlord's in extremely extended fights. The only champions that can really benefit from Fervor more are devourer junglers who can stack it quickly and don't have significant amount of AD or AP to scale with TL. As well, only DoT mages can apply Deathfire consistently enough to match the damage of Thunderlord's.
There are some exceptions. For example, GP works surprisingly well with Grasp of the Undying. Likewise, most tanks who do not care about damage too much can take Grasp. Some melee supports may take Bond of Stone if they do not get to poke too much in lane.
Champions that have crit built into their kits and scale with AS such as Yasuo (passive) or MF (ultimate) may find Bloodlust to be more useful.
However, that only account for a small portion of champions and playstyles. Essentially, if you do not have the kit to compound the effect of any Key stone masteries, take Thunderlords.
lolipopevelynn2 votesDo i really HAVE to use Thunderlord's? Whenever im playing and people don't see me using it immediately--immediately "Why aren't you using thunderlords?" "Use fucking thunderlords idiot" "Lol our [x] isn't using thunderlord's" on champions that don't expressly require Bond, or windspeaker, or DFT, etc.
Do i HAVE to use it....? -.-
its just that all other tier 3 masteries are crap in comparison. if u are a mage then your only option is DFT or thunderlords, unless you REALLY want stormraiders for some reason...
Kotex1 votesits just that all other tier 3 masteries are crap in comparison. if u are a mage then your only option is DFT or thunderlords, unless you REALLY want stormraiders for some reason...
I heard that Stormraider is supposed to be pretty good on Cassi and Talon though. Im not sure if thats true or not because ive never tried it but i was told that once.
Seenan1 votesI heard that Stormraider is supposed to be pretty good on Cassi and Talon though. Im not sure if thats true or not because ive never tried it but i was told that once.
It's good on Talon cause he'll pretty much always proc it and it may act similar to an escape tool. But the burst aspect of Thunderlord's is too good for an assassin to pass up. 100+X extra burst by mid game is silly.
Itadaki Seieki2 votesReported for not using Thunderlords.
SorryBoysImLes2 votesIf you didn't want to use Thunderlords you probably shouldn't have started playing a game called League of Thunderlords.
Really, how daft can one be?
[zombie-brand-facepalm]
But, seriously, the only good mastery is Explorer. Once you have it you don't even need to put anymore points in anything, just get Explorer, that's all. +15 movespeed = faster than everyone = free win.
I mean, any chance you can to be Dora in this game is an instant win.
A Latte Deaths2 votesI don't think thunderlord's is actually stronger than the other keystones, but it has a very noticeable (and satisfying) animation and sound effect, so players perceive it as OP when compared to the keystones with more subtle animations (or no animation at all).
So no, thunderlord's isn't the absolute best for everyone and you definitely don't have to use it if you don't feel like it. Ignore anyone who say otherwise.
Weathered2 votesYou don't have to, but when it becomes widely known, especially in low ELO, that something is better than everthing else, people all jump on the train to freelo and yell at anyone who doesn't. It's the same situation when people yell at me for picking Kha instead of Rengo. It is quite fun however to go into a Kha game and beat the enemy rengar with a 18/3/7 kda so that everyone stops yelling at you for playing Kha.
Teemo or Feedmo2 votes
:if you want to win lane,yes,you should use it.
Jeddy0172 votesWho the freak are you playing with?I don't play with Thunderlord's most the time & people don't give a shit.Hell,I never seen someone comment on "X's" lack of Thunderlord's. Anyway,no you don't.Especially if you're playing a champ that could benefit more from another Keystone Mastery.
"But Jeddy,Thunderlord's is the only good choice for damage on the type of champs I play." Well,it's not my fault all the other damage option sucks.If that's not the reason,then it's also not my fault other Keystone Masteries aren't that appealing to the type of champs you play.
Ghxztt2 votesThere were other keystones?
VirtuousViolence2 votesNo, you can use Windspeaker on Vlad for example (works quite weill since the Heal from your Q and your WotA gets enhanced)
CrazedPorcupine1 votesno it doesn't. If you want enhanced healing from spellvamp/WoTA and Q, you need to grab the tier 2 keystone in Resolve. Windspeaker's blessing only boosts heals/shields on allies.
Rot Panda2 votesIt only gives the armor/magic resist to allies, but it boosts the healing for everyone involved.
CrazedPorcupine1 votesno it doesn't. I play enough Nami and Soraka to know exactly how the Windspeaker's Blessing Keystone works. It only affects healing on allies. They made it specifically like that to avoid breaking Swain and Vlad.
Z Statistic2 voteshttps://youtu.be/Et6zFyWSAMU?t=2m16s
It affects self heals as of Dec 6. Unless it was changed invisibly in the Dec 9 patch, it still affect self heals.
