Welcome (or even necessary) item changes going into S5

ProfDrDeath··3 votes·1,804 views

Of course, this is only my personal PoV, but here is a list of current items that I feel could use a bit of change going into the new season.

  • item 3211 : I think this item is partly to blame for the staleness of current MR itemization, as it gives three stats that are good against magic damage - HP, HP regeneration and, of course, MR. Moreover, it leads to all items it builds into retaining those three stats.

  • item 3102 and item 3065 : For itemizing against magic damage, there are currently no alternatives - simply due to the fact that these two item give, on top of the highest MR amounts in the game, good amounts of HP (roughly 20-25% base HP of your typical champion).

  • item 3091 : Could use a better build path - the current one is simply horrible in the fact that it features a heavy focus on a multiplier stat (Attack speed), but gives nothing this attack can be multiplied with. I see two options here, one being to add a simple Tier 2 on-hit item that could build into Nashor's, too. The other would be to have Wit's build out of item 3155 and item 1043 and item 1042, especially if Hexdrinker has its AD reduced a bit (see also below). In this case, the two AS items can amplify Hexdrinker's AD and serve as an offensive upgrade path.

  • item 3156 and item 3155 : I feel like there's a bit too much overlap between item 3156 and item 3139 - in that, while Hexdrinker is a really good early buy, Scimitar is the superior endgame item offensively (80 AD always) and defensively (45 MR > 40 MR, and I'd wager that the active is more powerful than Hex's shield). Would like to see Maw's role to become more of a defensive thing (lower AD (hence the suggestion for lower AD on Hexdrinker), more MR (50-60) with an additional Null-Magic Mantle in the recipe), to distinguish between the two).

  • item 3001 : Needs a rework - the combination of AP, MR and MR reduction is just oppressive when the item is strong enough.

  • item 3128 : Refer http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay/8u7UdQAk-anyone-want-to-talk-champion-design?comment=001b0000

  • The jungle items:

    • item 3209 : The dominant jungle item for almost all of S4. Simply because it gives every stat an AD-based jungler wants in the early stages - AD, sustain, CdR, a damage passive and a passive that multiplies all of it against jungle monsters. I'd wager that this item is a big factor in stifling jungle diversity - anyone who can't use it must bring something exceptional to be a top-tier jungler (hello Elise ). Contrasted with the other three jungle items, an important point for its dominance, imo, is the fact that it provides its full strength immediately on purchase - there is no power-up period or an effect that is multiplying the stats from other items on this one.
    • item 3160 - Or, rather, the failed experiment. At this point, the whole Wriggle's/FF line should be redesigned from scratch.
    • item 3206 and item 3207 - Outclassed by SotEL. Not sure if either would end up too dominant once Elder Lizard was changed to not be as oppressive.
  • item 3022 - Should be reworked as a chasing/anti-kite tool without the oppressiveness of a permaslow. Also, would be great if there was a way to not make it even better as another kiting tool for the arsenal of ranged champions (unlike item 3153 ).

  • item 3005 : Remove the HP->AD conversion if there's no way to make it work, and then find a way to implement a viable and non-abusive AD/Armor item - provided there is a way to implement such an item.

  • item 3083 item 3050 item 3085 item 3056 item 3060 : These need some kind of work, too.

TL;DR: Item changes to MR itemization, Jungle items and some other items that sort-of don't have a real place in the game.

11 Comments

J P Hendersnoot2 votes

Really good post.

While I enjoy new, balanced champions I think a large part of the game would be significantly more fun if there was item diversity.

67chrome2 votes

I have a few problems with your problems.

  • Locket is a massive MR choice rivaling that of Visage and Veil, so stating Visage and Veil are the only choices against magic damage is pretty inaccurate. Especially seeing how often Locket is grabbed in pro play, and how most magic damage is area-effect, and locket specifically targets area-effect aspects.

  • Wit's End is specifically an item you get early game, or on tanky builds devoid of multipliers. It's absurdly cost-efficient with it's on-hit damage in such situations. It's MR shred also technically multiplies it's damage output, and the MR multiplies defensive prowess - both handy aspects on tanks and fighters focusing on high-defensive builds.

  • Early, middle, and late game are pretty distinct phases a lot of champion balance, strategies, and scalings favor different time perioids within. Hexdrinker being solid early game and Scimitar being solid late game is a noteworthy difference between the two items.

  • Jungle being the way it is is more due to the income offered than the items available. Lizard Eldar is ~ok, but not that impressive compared to other stuff. The big shift for it's current state is more there's so much income available, high-damage champions capable of killing all the things are in, where CC-heavy, supprot/tank/caster rolls just can't kill things fast enough to keep up. Whenever one type of jungler must pull off more successful ganks than another to keep even, they're not a safe pick. CC heavy junglers are in that spot now, they just need to pull off more ganks than assassins to keep afloat. Assassins used to be in that spot past seasons, when the jungle income was so awful running a CC heavy tank was a lot more reliable, you could stack gold generation items and just camp in a lane. Where as damage there was a good chance you'd never make enough gold to deal damage.

Anyways - jungle champions are more a jungle issue than itemization issue currently. Knock the income opportunities in jungle down a peg and you'd likely see more utility/cc heavy junglers make a comeback.

Otherwise - yeah, some items aren't as appealing as others and have weak niche appeal and somewhat awkward functionality. That's pretty much always going to be the case with 100+ items in the game all competing for being useful within ~3 major item core builds. Riot's steadily expanded choice from season to season from what I've seen though - ADC itemization only differed in can use Trinity Force or can't use Trinity Force in season 1, now you can go Kingblade or Bloodthirster, Statik or Dancer, run a traditional Infinity + Whisper build or go more of a duelist Kingblade Ghostblade deal. Things like Stark's, Wrecker, and Atma's probably need work. Hurricane, Warmog's, and Mallet seem ok for their niche.

ProfDrDeath1 votes
  • True, I did not mention Locket. Possibly, because I think that Locket is in a good spot - it gives a good amount of MR and a good amount of HP, but not the best MR in the game on top of good HP.

  • Be serious, who still builds Wit's End? And even with the things you mention: Those do not change the fact that the build path is abysmal, in the fact that building a ton of raw AS on without something to complement it is subpar. Other items like item 3068 and item 3031 can get away with having a ton of basic components, mostly because the stats these components give are direct stats that give something on their own. In IE's case, most people only build item 1038 and item 1037 and then try to complete the item in one go and avoid getting the item 1018.

  • True on the different phases. However, due to the way items are balanced in this game (getting more cost-efficient with tiers), there are no viable mid-tier items in this game.

  • I should've been more elaborative on why I think Warmog's needs work. It is an OK item in certain situations and on certain champions (Mundo against non-BotRK double AP comps, like ROC vs Fnatic showed). However, as the quintessential HP item, it just doesn't get bought. Part of that is the passive, I think - Spirit Visage on its own gives almost as much regen, if you account for the passive multiplying all intrinsic regeneration effects (30 Hp5 vs 1% of 3000 HP as HP5).

67chrome1 votes
  • Be serious, who still builds Wit's End? And even with the things you mention: Those do not change the fact that the build path is abysmal, in the fact that building a ton of raw AS on without something to complement it is subpar.

it has 42 on-hit magic damage to complement that AS. That's 8 less damage per auto-attack than Black Cleaver offers. Also, Wit's End can shred 25 magic resistance, all based off of on-hit stuff.

I've seen Shen, Cho'Gath, Irelia, Warwick, Shyvana, Volibear, and Udyr pick it up on multiple occasions.

42 magic damage on-hit is a pretty big thing to overlook.

  • True on the different phases. However, due to the way items are balanced in this game (getting more cost-efficient with tiers), there are no viable mid-tier items in this game.

The average gold income is 11,000 gold per player per game. Set aside 1k for boots and another 1k for left-over gold at the game's end, wards, the 475 start, potions, boot enhancements - and you're left with 9000. Or 3 major 3k gold items, breaking the game pretty neatly into early, mid, and late game stages.

So - with that limited number of items, the order you pick them up in plays a big part in how useful the given items are. Scimitar is more a 4th major purchase, Hex is more a 1st major purchase.

Things like Trinity Force and every jungle item are also very much early game purchases, not everything is about late game.

  • I should've been more elaborative on why I think Warmog's needs work. It is an OK item in certain situations and on certain champions

really, that's all most items should need to be useful. Some items should be niche picks for niche situations, there are just to many items in the game and to little gold to get them all to make everything useful in non-niche circumstances.

Worgslarg1 votes

Recurve bow needs removed imo, and wits end has a terrible slot efficiency.

Linna Excel1 votes

OP is focused pretty heavily on MR items... checking lolking... OP plays a lot of AD champs.

Abyssal is fine.

FF just needs a buff. It was a little too powerful, riot over nerfed it, then it was left as too weak. It's not a failed experiment, it's just riot being lazy and not following up.

IMO the jungle items need a big rework though. I've had too many games where I finished my jungle item and was then unable to jungle because the laners needed babysitting or needed help snowballing. The moment you can't jungle anymore is the moment you've got a poor investment.

TBH item 3209 is a poor man's item 3508. Then you've got item 3206 that is a poor man's item 3152 that requires you to farm quite a bit to get the same AP. And Golem is weird and no one plays jungle tanks that much.

Eapenator3 votes

Why does it matter what OP plays, he is entitled to his own opinion.

This being said, the only reason MR items are sparse is because magic damage usually falls off late game. Also, Magic damage is less effective when vs Mr and HP, compared to attack damage.

Jungle needs a rework through and through in order to revive tanks, which is what I think Riot is going to implement in S5 (the crazy things that they were talking about on twitter)

ProfDrDeath2 votes

Why, yes, I tend to play a lot of AD champion - I just suck at playing AP mages, that's why. Which has probably something to do with the fact that in the group of friends I regularily play with, we have two priority mid laners, 1 heavy priority jungler (he can't play anything else) and a few top laner, too.

And, in case you're not reading everything, I also call for changes to MR items that would effectively be nerfs - the whole Spectre's Cowl and its upgrades lines and the reduction of the AD of Hexdrinker?

Kazellion21 votes

Wit's end is a great niche item, build path isn't terrible usually for champs you actually buy it on.

Jungler items have rediculous amounts of HP sustain making jungle picks for actual jungling rather than just skirmishing inconsequetial. I agree with elder lizard remark but only for this reason, to have this much offensive power it shouldn't have HP sustain at all. Free infinite jungle sustain from item(not needing lifesteal or mitigation/regen abilities) ruins jungle.

CmereCupcake1 votes

I miss Force of Nature. FON was FUN

Khodexus1 votes

I can see most of your points, and even agree with some of them. But I'd also like to add something I've been thinking about since even before Trinkets were added to the Season 4 Preseason.

Potions.

Basically, I think they need to be looked at, as they're really only used early game anymore. And then late game you get an elixir, and that's it.

I'd like to see an 8th item slot dedicated purely to consumables, mainly potions, but also those placable wards. I'd like to see potions scale, perhaps having a flat value, added to a value per level and/or a value per maximum HP/MP, etc. And if we get a dedicated potion slot, I'd also like to see a 'rejuvenation potion' of sorts, for those people who want both mana and health.

I think this could be a great addition moving into Season 5.

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