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[Season 6] Less obvious, but impactful changes

ProfDrDeath··62 votes·17,324 views
Surrender at 20

Aside from all the obvious changes in the preseason that are hot topics in this forum, there are a few subtle, but possibly highly impactful changes that are currently sort-of flying under the radar of Gameplay and Balance.

The great tenacity nerf

Zephyr is removed. Merc Treads tenacity is lowered to 20%. This will be highly beneficial to CC-based mages, tanks and supports. And also make champions with kit-intrinsic tenacity more valuable. Hello DrMundo Irelia .

Initial spawn timers reduced.

Games now have 15 seconds less downtime in the beginning. Potentially, less early action?

Major Tower Buff

Towers now work more like minions, with no resistances, but increased health pools. The new health values are higher than the raw conversion of the previous eHP into HP with the removal of resistances. E.g. outer towers had 100 res and 1000 HP, now have 3500 HP.

AP ratio for tower damage increased to 0.5

AP champions are now slightly better in tower taking potential. With Nashor's, an AP will be able to take a tower almost as fast as an AD.

Teleport is nerfed

No longer has reduced cooldown on teleporting to towers.

Jungle changes

Jungle monsters have less XP. Jungle items give bonus XP. Laners will no longer be able to take camps for fast level 2.

Elixir of Iron buffed

Now gives 300 HP, too - and Tenacity, which has increased in value.

Powerspikes

Especially the gold flow changes, but also the item improvements, will affect the timings and impacts of champion powerspikes. This is the most intangible change, and its effects will not completely revealed unless everyone got used to the changes.

64 Comments

xFrostKnightx6 votes

{quoted}

Major Tower Buff

Towers now work more like minions, with no resistances, but increased health pools. The new health values are higher than the raw conversion of the previous eHP into HP with the removal of resistances. E.g. outer towers had 100 res and 1000 HP, now have 3500 HP.

You forgot to mention the nerfs to Nexus and inhibs. 250Ad is easy to hit now along with at least 1.5 attack speed (more based off champions). So champions can solo take out Inhibs in under or exactly 10 seconds.

With the changes Inhibs go from 16,500 eHP down to 4,000 eHP. (12,500 eHP loss) Nexus going from 14,300 eHP to 4,000 eHP. (10,300 eHP loss) Inner towers now have 3,500 eHP up from 2,000eHP (1,500 eHP gain) Outer towers also have 3,500 eHP up from 2,600 ehP. (1,300 eHP gain)

To give you an idea of how massive this nerf is (that once you lose tower, your inhib will 100% always be down before you can Recall to save it) Graves can now quite literally with 5 items (4. 1 is boots) take out towers like no tomorrow and 6-7 shot the inhibs/nexus. While other ADC's (or AD champions) have to give it 1-2 more AA in comparison.

junglerboy166 votes

If I'm not 100% mistaken, those eHP values you are using are for when there are no minions nearby to remove their insane armor/MR buff. With minions nearby their effective HP seems to be approximately the same as before.

Basically backdooring champions are getting a MASSIVE stealth buff, and everybody else won't notice any real difference.

Tis a nice day1 votes

Ah, that makes it much better then.

junglerboy162 votes

Actually, based on what the Wiki says, inhib/nexus turrets both have 100 armor/mr base and gain 200 additional armor/mr when there are no nearby enemy lane minions. I don't know where people are getting this whole 1000 armor/mr thing from, but it's never been a part of the game. More likely than anything it was just a typo and they meant to say they removed the base 100 armor/mr (which means the anti-backdoor armor/mr buff may still be in effect).

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Backdoor plating is still in effect, and still gives 200 Armor/MR.

It is actually even more efficient now - higher base HP = more eHP.

For example, outer towers used to have 2000 eHP and 4000 eHP. Now they have 3500 eHP and 10500 eHP.

Delioth8 votes

Where are you getting your numbers? Because they're wrong.

Only towers are changing, Inhibitors and the nexus already have no armor and big health pools (No change). (Note how the heading is TOWERS, not structures.)

The 1000 armor > 0 is a typo as well, the nexus and inhib turrets only have 100 armor/mr. (2000eHP inhib>4000eHP inhib turrets::3000eHP nexus turrets>4000eHP nexus turrets.)

This is a strict buff to them- as I said, nexus and inhibitor structures aren't changing in the least- the changes that you think are happening are actually the exact way they are right now. Towers, however, are changing: they all gain eHP.

Before you suggest a ~68% loss in effective HP, I suggest doing... 1,2,3... Yeah, 3 searches- and that's only if you want to be COMPLETE and check to see that the inhib and nexus are ALREADY what you say they're being 'nerfed' to. It'll take you five minutes and stop sheeple from complaining about a million changes that aren't happening.

EDIT: Hell, here are the links in case you're still lazy: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Inhibitor http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Nexus http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Turret

xFrostKnightx1 votes

Nexus HP increased to 4000.
Live value is 5,500 HP

Nice buff.

Armour and resistance was removed which I won't understand why. Log onto your PBE account and go see how long it takes to take out a tower now, because I can assure you unless people are taking down towers before 10-15minutes. This is a nerf not a buff.

Warlemming4 votes

The Nexus and Inhibitors already have no resistances, they have never had resistances. Those number changes are for the Nexus and Inhibitor Towers. Notice in the surrenderat20 changes, it's under towers:

Towers (Underlined in the page, it's pretty clear they mean both of the below changes) Inner and Outer towers HP increased to 3500 from 1000/1300 Armor/MR reduced to 0 from 100

Nexus and Inhib HP increased to 4000 from 1300/1500 MR /Armor reduced to 0 from 1000

Also on that note, I think the 1000 is a typo, they only have 100 atm.

pripustas4 votes

Also with games made more fast paced early game champions will fall out of meta completely. Why pick early champ if late game champs will outscale them by the 10minute mark.

Need Gold 4 Tent23 votes

Actually, the opposite is true as well. If games end faster, it means those lategamers who got their early game crushed may not make it back into the game in time to save it. Just saying, we can only speculate but we won't know for sure till a few weeks down the actual patch

Zair Umbras4 votes

And yet we still have the GnB Vayne 'buff' circlejerk. I still can't stop giggling at it either.

Darkomantis1 votes

I literally haven't seen any Vayne threads at all this past week.

Zair Umbras1 votes

It's usually not threads about Vayne specifically, it's about the Marksmen as a whole and there's always tons of comments about Vayne and how she was 'buffed'.

The A lister1 votes

lets be honest most of use are low elo players so late game champions are imo more useful than a early game champion, because we throw more/ don't know how to close games out early.

Demonsolder211 votes

This.

Orangesilk2 votes

It works the other way around too, it's easier fow low ELO players to make mistakes and feed oppressive laners, and then call a surrender instead of waiting for a comeback, this is why low ELO hates Riven.

Stacona1 votes

Umm, you have backwards logic, faster games means early game champions are stronger and late game champions fall out completely

pripustas1 votes

Actually faster paced game means items faster. Early game champions will have less room to get ahead, before mid/late game champions get their power spikes.

Only Play Darius4 votes

They really, really nerfed TP by removing the reduced cooldown on towers? This is absolutely the wrong way to nerf TP, the problem with it was that top and mid laners were abusing it to teleport to a minion botlane and get a double, so why the fuck would they increase the cooldowns on towers and not minions? No one teleports to towers in the first place! They couldn't care about their outer turrets falling because it wouldn't have protected them from dives anyway, and sidelane pressure doesn't matter anymore since tower dives are so easy to pull off with your team in other lanes. Champions are still going to abuse it to farm kills botlane because the cooldown is unchanged, all this does is hurt champions like Nasus who used teleport to actually return to tower and miss less farm early game after being bullied out of lane, toplaners who just abuse early game hard CC to get their ADC a double kill remain unaffected.

And still no buffs to tower damage, honestly tower damage is a joke at this point and no one gets punished for 2v1 diving full health champions and it's part of the reason double TP is so obnoxious, no thought or timing is required in tower diving anymore you can just force it so long as you have a friend there.

Silverclaw5 votes

To be fair, that's why it was picked up over ignite way back in S4.

Only Play Darius4 votes

I don't have a problem with toplane TP meta, it allows them to return to lane and possibly make a play from a traditionally isolated lane. What ruined the game for me is worlds, which started these obnoxious double and triple TP compositions where if any lane steps a foot over the median, 4 people gang up on them. It forces ultra-passive lanes, which contrary to what you would expect actually hurts late game champions because they contribute nothing to the level 4 5v5 teamfights that happen botlane every 2 minutes, and just makes the game snowbally as hell and more like deathmatch than anything else.

flibitydoo4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RzmQkW8A,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-11-01T20:55:54.354+0000) all this does is hurt champions like Nasus who used teleport to miss less farm early game after being bullied out of lane.

This was the issue if they take teleport, they get play making capabilities while also being unshovable out of lane. You could not "win lane" with the teleport meta since by the time you pushed up to their tower to make them lose minions to punish them for dying, they would already be back and ready to farm.

There is zero incentive to run ignite in solo lanes because of this, since the whole purpose of ignite was to improve lane dominance in exchange for losing global presence with teleport. With teleport also improving lane dominance, summoner spell diversity in these solo lanes has dropped.

Only Play Darius3 votes

The problem with TP right now isn't champions being unshoveable, it's champions who teleport to bot lane and get their ADC fed out of control. The cooldown only on minons needs to be increased because top and midlaners can teleport the moment someone else overextends, they don't have to wait for an opportunity or think about when the best time to teleport is because the cooldown is too low for the power it brings. This creates somewhat of a nuclear weapon dilemma where just the mere possibility of a teleport makes laners too scared to make plays, so it alters how players play the game even without the spell actually being used.

Tower teleports are much more predictable and can be canceled by bringing down the tower, unlike minion teleports which you can't do anything about. There are much better ways to nerf teleport than by removing the CDR on towers.

Gixia1 votes

Unless you remove teleport from the game entirely, the top laner TPing to bot lane to get the adc fed will always happen and no nerf to the CD is going to stop that. Thing is though, people absolutely do TP to towers. They back, buy TP to the tower without losing CS, and then with the CD halved, it's back up in 2 minutes for them to then go bot before they've been shoved out of lane. Now they can still go bot, but they can't also get a quick return to the lane before they do it. Likewise they can't TP to a tower that's got a big wave pushing in the mid-late game and still have it up to make a big play so soon after it.

Jesus Died 4 You2 votes

This needs more attention.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

I don't have a PBE account so I can't check this myself, but do the towers still gain armor and MR when there are no minions around? If not its a huge split push buff, and the change to towers is more neutral.

Also makes the 15 HP per 5 less valuable but easier to use.

7ha7guy7772 votes

(Pretty sure this is relevant to the powerspikes section) I noticed RoA got a 20 ap buff along with its cost increase of 300 gold, does that mean it starts at 80 and hits 120 ap after 10 minutes or is it still scaling up to 100 ap? This could be significant because gold generation was increased and the ap went up 435g but the cost is only 300 higher.

Zair Umbras2 votes

It scales up to 120 AP. Archangel's+RoA users are very, very happy to have 300+ AP with only 2 items.

thumbnail92 votes

Waitin to see that 2,800k gold frozen mallet "breaking" the game like riot thinks.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

Could be a realistic possibility.

Candidates to break it: Olaf Shyvana Volibear Gnar

Hard4Hamsters4 votes

GNAR....

he is going to be the biggest abuser in my opinion. Champ is too strong as is (that's just my opinion). He has so many eHP + AD options that he does really well with in Sterak's (one of the best users of this item), Hexdrinker, Black Cleaver (this was nerfed on the preseason though) and Frozen Mallet. I feel like he has too many options for offensive items without having to worry heavily on HP + Resists items due to his Passive and his Mega Form.

Anyway. Gnar's boomerang into AA's plus Frozen Mallet is one of the most painful things to deal with as his W procs chunk and he will be able to stay on you no matter what you do unless you have a teammate or tower nearby to dissuade him from pursuing.

Marquis1 votes

There is so much false info in here, I'm just gonna put it in list format: -the only item in there that is viable on Gnar is black cleaver -he isn't even close to a great user of Sterak's -all dedicated tanks need at least 5 tank items (Gnar is a "dedicated tank") -black cleaver was changed, not nerfed (it lost 10 ad, 10 armor pen, gained 200 hp, and gained rage passive) -you shouldn't be giving people "advice" if you have never played a ranked game

Hard4Hamsters1 votes

I will say that you have the false info here. I will start by stating that every item that I mentioned as an offensive/semi-offensive option has a situational use on Gnar and that every one of the mentioned items has been used by professional players in competition as stand alone items or in conjunction with more offensive options. Check the games of Zion Spartan, Impact, and Smeb to see what I'm talking about.

Situational buys on offensive items early help you hold your own in lane and give you a damage boost in midgame teamfights even if you are going to be a main tank of the team. Hexdrinker is one of the best items into a magic damage opponent like Rumble to be able to effectively trade with him. The passive of Hexdrinker will also give a significant shield in the midgame to help you survive that extra few seconds to dish out a little extra damage or get away without giving a kill over to your enemies.

Another thing to consider is that if you have another main tank on your team (say a Jungler) and your other laners are behind or your comp is lacking in damage overall. Getting an offensive item or two can make you more of a threat to the enemy team and with the items of item 3022 item 3155 item 3053 item 3071, you aren't taking a massive hit to your overall tankiness, meaning you will still be a pretty good frontliner.

On Sterak's specifically, he is actually a fairly good user of the item right now and I think the item is only good on a handful of champs situationally, but Gnar can use it very well due to having a lot of Total AD scaling on his abilities, his AA's being a very important part of his damage output, and his Mega Form having the highest Base AD of any champion in the game (pretty sure) meaning he gets the most AD out of the item. His passive charges based on how much he outputs damage and how much he takes as well making Sterak's perfect for him. Gaining size and a shield (particularly in Mega Form) will also be very beneficial for his Crowd Control and tanking ability in Mega form.

On Black Cleaver, I was mentioning the preseason changes that are currently on the PBE for the item. The cost was increased to 3500 and the AD went up to 55 while the HP it gives has gone down to 300, so I felt like it was an overall nerf, at least to Gnar with the item as the cost increase hurts him and he didn't care about the AD as much as the CDR, HP, Rage passive and armor shred.

Lastly, I wasn't giving people advice like you stated. I was making an observation and stating my opinion on the matter. If people read it and thought on it, maybe they would come to the same conclusion or maybe they would land somewhere else. But I will leave with this. Whether or not someone plays ranked does not really indicate whether or not they have some basic knowledge of the game and can make assumptions based on experience and numbers of items, champions, and abilities about interactions within that game. Rank can be a very good indication on how much you know about the game as you have to know a really good volume of it to achieve higher ranks, but it is not a requirement of someone who has good game knowledge to have a high rank or to even play ranked at all. I personally have played over 2000 games of League. Maybe one day I would decide to try my hand at Ranked but I don't see the point other than to prove to a bunch of people on the boards that I have some idea of what I'm talking about.

Anyway. That's my rant. Later. Peace.

thumbnail91 votes

{quoted}

Could be a realistic possibility.

Candidates to break it: Olaf Shyvana Volibear Gnar

Hey maybe 3 of those four will actually become consistently viable. With how high the sustain is on the new preseason ADC's is they will need all the power they can get to actually kill them.

Orangesilk1 votes

Olaf and Gnar are not only viable but worlds-worthy.

The bear is awesome in solo Q but too simplistic and predictable for competitive, he'll do fine.

Shyvana hasn't recovered from the unwarranted early S4 nerfs that left her in the ground and rotting ever since.

Oerba No Naja2 votes

i honestly think that riot hate tanks , they want to see a agrresive game i guess , i may be wrong but if they nerfed the tenacity in items its because of the new mastery in the tank tree

TNHA Baritone1 votes

there was JUST a tank meta

Oerba No Naja1 votes

remember s2 ?

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Tenacity was in the defense tree for a few seasons now.

The most recent tree redo actually put it into a place where you could go 21/9/0 and get the Tenacity.

Btw, now you get 15 Tenacity for 5 points. You used to get 15/10 for 1 point.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

Initial spawn timers reduced.

Games now have 15 seconds less downtime in the beginning. Potentially, less early action?

I don't know if it's on PBE yet, but they talked about this several months ago, and they're also planning on making the mini-homeguard buff you get on game start less mini. So, you should still get to river around the same time as before, you just have a little less time to decide what you're doing. Which probably does mean less cheese in soloQ, but no change in cheese for 5's.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Ah, ok. I forgot that.

Still, less cheese in solo queue is good, isn't it?

Jeddy0171 votes

Teleport is nerfed No longer has reduced cooldown on teleporting to towers.

Whoa,where does it say that?I haven't seen any TP nerfs pop up on the PBE yet.

ProfDrDeath5 votes

Not explicitly mentioned. But if you play a game with TP on PBE and look at its description -> No more reduction. Full 300 seconds for everything.

CoolKnightST1 votes

So basicly any adc can finish the game in 5 seconds. OK...

ProfDrDeath4 votes

What makes you think that?

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

You forgot to mention that the tank tree (Valor or w/e it's called) has 15% tenacity built into it, which means you'll get 15 right out of the gate. With merc treads it returns to 35%. Less value in a singular item, more value if you're building tank-on-tank.

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

iirc Tenacity is a multiplicative value and not additive so it is indeed still a nerf compared to live otherwise Irelia and Mundo would reach absurd levels of Tenacity if it was additive (iron pot, mercs, mastery, Mundo W/Irelia Passive would reach near 100% if it were additive).

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

No what I mean is that you're getting 15% tenacity right off the bat versus having to build mercs.

It's a net loss on the mercs tenacity but you can now get tenacity without having to get MR

ProfDrDeath2 votes

15% from the mastery tree, for 5 points. And that mastery is tier 3 on Resolve, meaning that you have to take a Resolve Keystone and cannot get additional penetration or CdR.

On top, Tenacity is a part of the defense tree for a few seasons now, in amounts between 10 and 15%. And the 10% were even achievable with a 21/9/0 build.

DiDiWoock1 votes

DrMundo

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