Putting mana on Abyssal mask is an 'Abysmal' idea.

Melledoneus··6 votes·1,976 views

Abyssal mask is an item that provides tanks with MR, HP, and a small damage boost to your team's magic damage when you engage. To be honest, this item should not provide mana, as the changes on the PBE are doing right now. This is an overall bad idea because:

  1. Putting mana on it would encourage battle mages, AP bruisers, and even some mages to build it. This is a tank item, and abuse cases would mean nerfs for this item and some champions if we're going off the way Riot usually deals with it.

  2. This would join the list of items that exclude resourceless tanks like Shen, Zac, and Gnar (yes, he's a tank, surprise surprise). Frozen Heart and Iceborn Gauntlet are great items in some situations but if I'm playing Shen (for example), I can't build it without losing a huge chunk of gold value in the item and dealing with a subpar item in my inventory. Abyssal Mask should not exclude any tanks, as MR options are limited as they are and just as it became good you're giving mana tanks an unfair advantage in itemization.

  3. **The item is losing MR and becoming more expensive for this mana. **Spirit Visage is better as an item because of its raw stats. What would be a better direction is to make Spirit Visage and Abyssal Mask similar in stats, but different in the way they provide to the tank. Tanks and bruisers with good sustain (Maokai, Aatrox, Trundle) would prefer Spirit Visage's healing amplifier over Abyssal Mask, while front line tanks (Sion, Leona, Sejuani) would prefer the latter to amplify their team's collective magic damage.

  4. **If number 1 turns out to be incorrect, then no one will really build the item. **I'd rather take my stat-stick Spirit Visage over a garbage-tier battle mage hybrid monstrosity that gives me mana (that I would get elsewhere for less) that I may or may not need.

This is just my two-cents on this item based on my prior experiences to changes like this. I hope Riot does not find this change palatable because it would create problems that could have been avoided and not really solve any of the problems it was aiming to.

25 Comments

Volphi2 votes

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paisy2 votes

Because Shen and Gnar could benefit from the MR while helping out ap champs on their team?

Volphi2 votes

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paisy2 votes

"Highly situational", I don't thinking needing mr and having ap champs is highly situational

Volphi1 votes

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paisy1 votes

What if you need more than SV? Plus you're only counting tanks, what about Morde, Akali, Kennen, Vlad etc? Yeah they build ap but Abyssal works for them too if they need extra MR

Volphi2 votes

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paisy1 votes

Yeah but that doesn't mean they might not need the extra mr and passive it provides, they both usually go semi tanky

Ralanr1 votes

CDR, health, MR. It's great for manaless tanks.

Volphi1 votes

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Ralanr1 votes

Not so much if you don't have healing, but yes.

It's normally difficult for manaless tanks to reach high CDR through items. Not it's relatively easy.

Volphi1 votes

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Ralanr1 votes

Not completely, no.

Melledoneus1 votes

Except health regen is useless if you're looking for durability. You need to stack multiple MR items and Adaptive Helm isn't exactly a good general MR item.

Meep Man2 votes

Health Regeneration isn't useless. Most people underestimate how much a build with a lot of Health Regen is giving them over the course of a fight. If you are getting 20 HP per Second with big regen builds, that's 200 extra Health in a fight that lasts at least 10 seconds. 30 HP per Second? 300. 50 HP per Second? 500.

Melledoneus1 votes

That's not wrong, but the context is that this person is suggesting that we can simply build "another Spirit Visage" as if that wouldn't hurt the gold efficiency of our stats.

HP regen is nice, but compared to what we're losing in itemization it's useless.

Melledoneus1 votes

{quoted}

As intended? Don't AP bruisers already build it?

No, it is very clearly a tank item. It replaced Banshee's Veil, a tank item, and became an item that provides 0 offensive stats but also a passive that helps your team deal more damage. It is the dream item for tanks, because very few battle mages and AP bruisers actually want to be smack dab in the middle of the team, while almost every Vanguard does that.

Battle mages rely on a combination of durability of damage and durability, like RoA or Rylai's. Tanks want nothing but durability and team utility, which is exactly what this item gives.

There isn't such a thing as abuse. It's either intended or bad design.

So you're telling me that Runeglaive Ezreal was not an abuse case? That an item meant for AP junglers was just 'bad design' although it helped many of them, but had to be removed because one champion could take it mid?

Why on earth would you even build it on Shen or Gnar?

Shen builds it because not only does it gives his mages some oomph, but also increases his Q %HP damage and his sunfire effect damage.

Gnar also uses it because he intends to jump in the middle of the enemy team and clump them into a wall.

Building second SV on champions that don't have or have abysmal magic damage is already better. If you buy Abyssal on those champions you are wasting it's passive.

What the hell? Building two of the same item is highly wasteful and has not worked since Season 4 when unique passives were placed on Black Cleaver and Bloodthirster. I can't believe you would justify Abyssal Mask getting mana because "you can just buy two Spirit Visages."

I don't WANT two SV's. I wany more MR, more HP, and I want to help my Brand or Syndra mid deal more damage in team fights. This is just a horrible argument overall and it shows that you do not have perspective into how it is to play a tank into an AP heavy comp.

Not including Adaptive Helm as it's situational.

So the only option is "build two of one item, waste gold on stats, and hope you have enough MR?" If I want to build aome protection against a fed TF, my only option should not be SV. We JUST got anti-AP itemization in a good place, don't take it away from us now.

Mordepool1 votes

I agree but I'm biased as a Morde main. I just got 1 less defensive option. And it was a fucking good one for Morde aswell

Melledoneus1 votes

As a Shen main, I understand your plight. This item was a godsend and now it's being changed to cater to mana tanks in ways they don't even care about.

Jorencice1 votes

Going to be good on my blitzcrank.

Everything I could want since I don't need the healing from SV. It increases my high base damages slightly and helps my team.

And it's a way better buy than the frozen heart im required to build every game for the CDR and mana.

nm10101 votes

You know its kind of funny the item has come full circle (stat wise at least). Banshee's used to build out of catalyst a long time ago, now that it switched stats with abyssal it is getting that build path back.

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