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The Only Nerf I feel Zed truly Needs

Chuck Charles··7 votes·704 views

I feel his Q shuriken range needs to be nerfed slightly. Currently, he can not only farm safely, but harass back safely on anyone remotely trying to aggress on him. the skill shot is earnestly not that hard to land and is relatively resourceless as it is energy based.

I am ok with his damage being high as an assasin, his ult has counterplay, and if he uses his shadow to aggress he has no escape for jungle ganks or your counter aggression.

I personally feel his Q is TOO safe. with its low cooldown and basically resourceless there is no decision of whether or not to use it, you just spam it on cooldown. Zed needs something that gives you an opportunity to punish him. His main window of being punishable is W and ult cooldowns. however, most good zeds just stay back and if you try to aggress can and will get a shuriken or two while they run away. its maddening to be honest.

does anyone else feel this way?

14 Comments

Gunpoint1 votes

I think it's enough that it does reduced damage per enemy it goes through. If you are having a problem dodging it try to stay behind a clump of minions. If you feel he farms too safely I'd be inclined to agree with you but there isn't really any way to just nerf this in his kit besides making it so his Q doesn't damage minions. (Which btw I don't think is a good idea.)

Nahui1 votes

Not quite, no. So many people have this issue with safe farming when this is the case with all ranged champions. If he is "safe farming", the lane is yours. Ward your rivers, and just own the lane. He isn't using his Q to hurt you, so hit him with a spell or two while he possibly earns a creep every 7 seconds or so, assuming he NEVER misses one.

"Too far to harass." So sit in the creeps. Sit in front of the creeps. Scare him off. If zed is safely farming so well that means he has no aggression meaning somehow you've got some huge advantage. Map awareness, be wary of ganks, but overall any safe farming zed will eventually be a losing zed.

Chuck Charles2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain Rand0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xArAP6PX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-01T20:41:24.295+0000)

Not quite, no. So many people have this issue with safe farming when this is the case with all ranged champions. If he is "safe farming", the lane is yours. Ward your rivers, and just own the lane. He isn't using his Q to hurt you, so hit him with a spell or two while he possibly earns a creep every 7 seconds or so, assuming he NEVER misses one.

"Too far to harass." So sit in the creeps. Sit in front of the creeps. Scare him off. If zed is safely farming so well that means he has no aggression meaning somehow you've got some huge advantage. Map awareness, be wary of ganks, but overall any safe farming zed will eventually be a losing zed.

it is not his safe farming that bothers. it is only a part of it. the range on the Q allows him to farm AND harass you for essentially free and with little chance to aggress back on him due to its long range and being resourcelss.

Nahui1 votes

They have a mechanic for that. the damage is heavily reduced if it passes through something first, i.e a minion.

Also, just dodge. If there's a low health minion, don't stand behind it. If he tries to hit you without a low health minion, then he isn't farming and you take reduced damage. It's a nice world out there.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

except the problem here is that now you're in the minion line where hes just going to all in you anyway knowing he has higher base damages and better scaling/early damages so he wins anyway

throw out W, -> W to clone -> E and Q and auto + TL for guaranteed chunks of health missing, waste your mana, get some autos or run away, but hes already ton top of you, he will win the auto war.... so you need immediate CC and distance.... oh look your combo did a lot less than his, and now he walks away too...

and after he backs out despite him missing 4/5ths or just 1/5th of his health (masterfully uh, not spamming at all), he just does it again 23seconds later and kills you this time.

the only acceptable time to be in minion wave is levels 1 and 2, afterthat its zeds lane to throw away if he so chooses. only a handful of counterpicks can contend with him. everyone else is feel free to play monumentally better, or wait for him to mess up and capitalize on it.

Nahui1 votes

But he won't all in you that easily, that's the issue. Bait the shadow, which is really easy, and CC him if he jumps into the creep line. It's really all it takes. Mid lane Zed doesn't autowin unless he messes up. It's a skilled match up, and if he outskills you then sorry, SoL. But you can also out skill him, especially if you know how.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

im a mage main, but just by playing against zed i know exactly what works and how to absolutely crush with zed. because i know what kills me, and its simply just the lack of jungler presence, giving zed the right to go as ham as he wants to. and the fact that zed often has a longer range than the mid laner i play. (absurd i know)

its also the fact that he starts with 31% damage reduction and 3 health potions and a larger base health pool. i just cant get through it alone so he never dies. and most of the time he runs lifesteal and has some innate sustain.

so i need to land nearly all of my skill shots, and i mean every single one, to come out ahead against zed.

or i just pick someone like ziggs/lux/xerath/velkoz and just not care, and just farm/poke for days.

heres how the lane works, zed farms with Q until level 3, gets the majority of the cs anyway. staying relativley back. this is where you need to burn at least 2 potions of his for free.

now once level 3 comes around hes going to W -> Q for the rest of the lane for free. after he does that he should land it a lot because afterall "just dodge it" doesn't really apply when his W gets involved. and guess how much damage his W does to a mid laner at that level? oh right, about 85 if goes through a minion and i get hit with one. or close to 150160 if it doesnt. thats a whole potion amount. or 1/6th of my health. from his Q alone, and it can hit up to 230 + if he hits with both Q's or gets the E in as well.

"well zed isn't going to just w all game long, or even still just go after him when its on CD" "or the jungler will come right away after he uses it and now hes defenseless" - no, never, the jungler rarely camps a zed like they should.

too bad, hes already walked away and out of my range, because he has 345ms and i cant chase that, in addition to having actual cast times and ability animations and missile travel times. unlike zed.

not to mention standing on top of minions exposes yourself to ganks, and junglers will notice the immobile mage standing in the middle of the wave. they will actively try to kill you over anyone else.

Nahui1 votes

And I'm a zed main so I know what I fight that is effective vs me and what is not. I know when my laner is dumb and an auto win and when the lane is very difficult.

Zed doesn't only farm with Q till level 3. He auto attacks too. You shouldn't be burning health potions unless you walk into his Q over and over and over again.

Once he hits 3, yes W-Q. And when W is down, lane is all yours. He suddenly becomes very skittish because if a jungler pops up he better hope he's got a flash. You don't have to get hit by every W-Q. Remember that. It's VERY easy to bait it on your terms. Very.

Getting hit by both Q's is entirely your fault. If you have any range on you whatsoever, you can't be hit by two Q's. If you're Wonder Ziggs trying to melee him, then you'll find otherwise. To be hit by the E you need to be in W range. Stay out of range. Or bait the shadow. Do a feint or two. These are all strategies I employ against zed and it's always very successful. Why? I play zed extensively, I know what to do vs him because I know what I watch out for as him.

The jungler not ganking is not an issue for the balance team. Zed shouldn't be balanced because "The jungler doesnt camp zed like he should." That just improves with ELO. Shadow goes down, jungler goes in. If zed is all aggressive like you say, it'll be an easy gank.

345 is not godlike ms. 345 doesn't mean he will speed away and dodge all. he's just a bit faster than you. If you aren't hitting your skill shots, it's because you didn't aim correctly.

Overall just try and not get poked down in lane. You won't beat all the Zed's but if you're losing to each one, that's on you. It's a very doable lane.

Also don't use immobile mages as an argument of balance. Zed specifically counters those. Don't take xerath into zed and be surprised when he ults all over your face. You chose to give him lane when playing his strength.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

im telling people how to win against zed. and get first blood against him.

you are telling people how to not feed in lane. and just keep him at bay and eventually just wait for the 5v5. "hes not that bad if you just build a certain way and change how you play, then hes almost an average champion"

big difference.

Nahui1 votes

There's no out bay. His strength is his shadow play. If he wants to hurt you, he has to use his shadow of you're bad. Dodge the poke, VERY easily doable, and retaliate afterwards. He is easily kill able. I'm not saying just don't feed. I'm saying our farm and our play him. If you out play him you win. If he out plays you, he wins. It's how all champs should be. Zed isn't some Nasus who you can kill a couple times and then farms and wins. You simply don't get poked down. That's it.

And yes. Change how you play. Don't pick an immobile Mage and rush your precious mana regen. You can't have damage, incredible sustain, and super tankiness either. Rush an arm guard, and think about your spells, not just wildly sling them out every chance you get. Nothing pisses me off as zed more than the fucker who runs armor runes and then starts cloth 5 and rushes an arm guard because my Q passes through a minion and practically heals the enemy champion. It's not a hard lane lol. Just don't let yourself be poked. It really is that simple.

"I should be able to play whatever I want however I want vs any champion."

No. Alter your style of play or you will lose.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

im going to pick Ahri

im going to use my 880 range Q, which does less damage than his 900 range Q. and has a lower missile speed and is much easier to dodge. and out trade him for sure. just because im great like that.

but at the end of the day, i recognize he reserves the right to w E Q auto and chunk me to bits whenever he likes, thats why i have to stay at full hp.

and i also recognize that even bjergsen and scarra frequently feed against an enemy zed of equal skill.

and it DEMANDS jungler attention to win.

if you out play and outskill zed, hes still just 0/2 and at worst 25cs down. 20minutes into the game

if zed out plays you hes 15 kills ahead with 100cs lead. and 2 towers non stop roaming while you struggle to clear the wave at all. 20mins again.

also, just a quick question for you, whats the proper itemization against zed? defensive? take the burst entirely and then team work him down?

whats the proper itemization against ap mid laners? mixed ad/mr.

i go home knowing zed reserves the right to 100-0 me with 1 rotation of his abilities. and i have to land 2 rounds of abilities or have the jungler contribute damage as well to kill zed

Papa Slothy1 votes

hide behind ur minions, it will deal damage so low that u can regen it back

LankPants1 votes

His passive needs to not proc on minions. Not sure about other things, but I know 100% that this needs to happen.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

Zed does not need nerfs. Stop asking for them and learn to play the game.

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