Lets talk about who does and doesn't like these changes on cassiopeia shall we?

ShadowParker·Aug 29, 2014·7 votes·1,244 views

Who all likes these changes to cass? who all likes the new model and new skill set. I for one don't.

I don't understand why they're reworking her, shes not bad, shes not underpowered, just no one wants to learn her. Their are plenty more people who need reworks such as taric, or zilean, sion. And plenty more people need model updates as well. I, for one, am a Cassiopeia main, and I love this character, no one in this game has a playstyle like hers, and I would hate to have it taken away. If people give her a chance, if riot gives her a chance, she will become popuar, and who knows. perhaps shes just a sleeper waiting to come? Noone expected kog adc to become so popular or trist to make a sudden break in popularity, I beg riot. To not touch her. Just give players a reason to play her.

35 Comments

RockwellAug 29, 20146 votes

I dont like the changes. I'm tired of champs getting reworks when they dont need them. Reworking champions doesnt make them get picked more. Look at xerath and skarner. In both of those cases I think they are actually less fun to play. especially xerath. Prework xerath was a blast. they took everything interesting out of his skills and turned them into average skill shots. His ult cant hit anything that moves. Remember taric? he saw a little popularity in ancient times so they "reworked him" he got popular again so they "reworked him again. He is deleted now. (might as well be). These reworks usually turn out to be the finishers of already rarely seen champions.

Winged HussarsAug 29, 20142 votes

The Skarner rework was great. All 6 of us Skarner players LOVE the stun added on his passive.

Xerath is aslo played a ton outside of NA. That's why he got nerfed a little bit ago. A champion being good or bad is independant of what people think of that champion. Opinions over data matters only im terms of how a kit feels to play and play against. And Cassiopeia is probably the least fun champion to play against on live. It probably feels pretty good to play her and master her, but it is overall BAD. If you remember when Cass was good, you would remember when she could keep people zoned so hard they would end up 3 levels down without dying. It's not as bad as it was, but high damage potential and safety combined is just a problem that Riot has been solving one champ at a time (Kayle, Ryze - currently Zilean).

You might be right about the rework being a poor decision, but someone has to list counterpoints or there is no discussion, only people being angry with other angry people.

ShadowParkerAug 29, 20144 votes

I can see why they reworked xerath... His magic pen was pretty insane, but skarner? I heard there were so many people raging at the skarner rework, as well they couldn't get him right multiple times.

As well, we don't want Cassiopeia to be super unstable for several patches, shes perfectly fine as she is, riot just needs to come out with a skin for her- give players a reason to play her and want to learn her like udyr.

Knight SoIaire Aug 29, 20141 votes

reason to play her and want to learn her like udyr

yeah right the epic wave of udyrs raised by sgu 90% of those ppl didnt even know what udyr does, they just stack the flare, and those ppl stopped playing udyr already if cassio will get a skin ppl will play for a day or 2 and go on to playing things that reward them for their input (dont need learnig), cassio is hard and in current enviroment doesnt realy reward much for being good

also why does everyone call this a rework, its an update (they bring the champion up to actual standards)

ShadowParkerAug 30, 20143 votes

First off, Feral Flare wasn't even out at the time that skin came out. Because of that skin, players learned to play Udyr, man people now main that character.

Second off, they are NOT updating Cassiopeia, they are ruining a perfectly good character.

pWasHereAug 30, 20141 votes

Xerath is actually seeing quite a bit of competitive play.

At least quite a bit more than Cass, for instance.

ShadowParkerAug 30, 20141 votes

You can say that for about anyone tho haha... Singed, Taric, Yorick, them peeps :p

Anyone remember the proxy power of singed? Back in the days when he was super strong :p

JennibelleAug 29, 20145 votes

New changes are terrible. And I don't like the VU either. Her face looks all ugly now on the Mythic Cassiopeia skin too :( Riot is completely ruining her.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay/YEbci1tG-leave-cassiopeia-alone

Linna ExcelAug 29, 20145 votes

I've looked at both the VU and the skill changes and overall I don't like either. I like some aspects of the VU, but overall it's not that good. I rated it as meh. The skill update is a mess that needs to be purged with fire.

GridløckAug 29, 20144 votes

Can I get a link to the original thread stating her rework?

ShadowParkerAug 29, 20142 votes

This lists some of the changes going on in PBE right now, and since its in PBE. If we all riot together for the old Cassiopeia they may just not go through with this crappy plan of ruining her.

http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/29437-unofficial-pbe-patch-notes-for-8-27-2014-khazix

As well if you watch videos on new Cassiopeia you'll see her crappy model and that her passive has been changed :( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VODAVuqdOc&list=UU0NwzCHb8Fg89eTB5eYX17Q

KhodexusAug 29, 20144 votes

Yeah, cause 'rioting' over the Sona update did so much for us... As far as I can tell they didn't change a thing from pushing her new kit onto the PBE and releasing her to the main game client. I'm still upset over that, as new Sona just is not fun to play...

Now, they're doing this to Cass too? Cass could use some tweaks, make her ult a little more reliable, and fix her E so I don't have to set it to smartcast every match (only ability on any champ I use that with, c'mon?). But fankly, that's all she needs...

ShadowParkerAug 30, 20141 votes

You never know tho that's the thing, like they changed Headhunter's Caitlyn's skirt, but through everyone rioting they changed it.

I feel like Cassiopeia is fine tho, I'd say her ult is perfectly reliable, altho I the e should become a bit more responsive tho...

KhodexusAug 30, 20142 votes

I've encountered some REALLY wierd bugs with Cassiopeia's ultimate. And sometimes it is really hard to gauge the hitbox of the effect. That's the main thing I mean with making it reliable. Like for instance, if I ult someone who is dashing towards me, shouldn't they be petrified if they are still dashing when the ult 'hits'? Especially if they end up in front of me. I've had someone (I think Lee Sin, but not 100% positive) who managed to dodge my ult because they got so close that Cass 'leaned forwards' past their hit box before ulting.

At least that's what seemed to happen, and you can imagine how frustrating that would have been. Frankly, it's supposed to be a gaze attack, so why not give a very small 'window' where it can effect people instead of only occuring in that tiny instant that... well I'm not even entirely sure what tiny instant it goes off in. The effect itself takes a noticable amount of time.

Anyways, back on topic. I don't know how I feel about this emphasis on a single ability in her kit over the others. Twin-fang was nice, but what if i want to focus on poison damage, rather than taking her bot-lane and playing her as a magic damage ADC?

ShadowParkerAug 31, 20142 votes

I personally, have never had problems, I'm pretty used to using it. But I can definitely tell what you mean, it wouldn't be hard to fix it, just tweak a bit not rework the whole kit :)

And right?? I honestly don't want to be spamming my e nonstop and only using it.... To much button mashing

KhodexusAug 31, 20141 votes

I just hope, whatever else happens with this rework (because it's going to go forwards, no matter what the fans think, is what I've learned form past experiences with Riot), that they auto-smart cast the E, so I don't have to go into my options and change E to/from smartcast every time I decide to play Cass or go back to a different champ.

ShadowParkerAug 31, 20142 votes

Hopefully, they don't go through with this. And stop. @Riot employee's, please think about the fan community, not what you think it right, The fans are always right.

KhodexusSep 1, 20141 votes

Well, the problem with that, is that the fans don't always know what they want, until they actually have it, or it is taken away. Nor is what the fans want always healthy for the game.

That being said, it would be nice if Riot at least addressed overwhelming feedback, and showed some sign of actually caring about fan feedback.

hyprformnceAug 29, 20142 votes

make a poll tbh

pWasHereAug 30, 20142 votes

Well I cant remember the last time I saw her in competitive play, so frankly she is outmatched. She doesn't offer enough for her glaring weaknesses. If she did then she would get played.

However, if anything this rework is making her weaknesses even more glaring.

ShadowParkerAug 30, 20142 votes

Yeah... but it seems more like whoever they play becomes popular yeah?

Yeah... This rework is ruining her.

Knight SoIaire Aug 29, 20141 votes

don't understand why they're reworking her, shes not bad, shes not underpowered, just no one wants to learn her

thats wrong statement they dont rework her, and her kit changes dont make her easier riot's champion design is evolving or rather evolwed and they bring their champions up to date

they want to make cassio a mage version of ad carry (she is close atm but they think that they can make her fit the role better) so they tweak her to fit the role better and feel better among all the newer champs (this ms steroid feels so lackluster when everybody jumps)

ppl lash out on the change cause they saw couple high numbers on her passive but in my opinion it will be a realy fun champs

ShadowParkerAug 30, 20143 votes

Its not her kit that's the problem, its just the fact that no one is willing to learn her. She could be a sleeper champion waiting for its time, look at Trist and Kog, they were not played at all... than BAM they came out nowhere.

Are you serious? Have you seen her ap ratio's now? They are god awful! They were perfect before, 80% to 30% on the q, that's horrible!

pWasHereAug 30, 20141 votes

Trist and Kog didnt come out of nowhere. They got huge buffs from the adc item rework.

Knight SoIaire Aug 30, 20141 votes

Are you serious? Have you seen her ap ratio's now? They are god awful! They were perfect before, 80% to 30% on the q, that's horrible!

ok man let me tell you something that you just proven yourself you cry without a reason

her e ap ratio on lvl5 is higher than it is actualy add her passive to that and you get an insanely good amount of damage (her main dmg was e anyway) and a heal to back it up

stop crying if you dont even know what they change her q and w got nerfed cause they were given purpose, q aplies poison and allows to kite, w aplies poison and slows, while e deals damage and sustains you

oh god the entire thread just turned out to be a bunch of crybabies who cant read

ShadowParkerAug 31, 20142 votes

Alright, I'm fine with you placing your point in this thread, after all its to find out who likes it and who doesn't. But do you really need to bash? We aren't crying, we're rioting. We are discussing what we like about it, and what we don't like. Haven't you ever wanted to talk about what's going on? We don't need people like you, in league, who put other people down.

Her e was nice and all, but I DONT want it to be so emphasized, I don't want to be mashing my e over and over just to deal my only damage. My q and w, my q was amazing for poking as well as hitting multiple targets at once, a well placed q, can deal so much damage to so many people. And my w, I always threw it at the adc during teamfights because either they take full damage from it, or they take time to walk out of it. Her w was amazing for scaring off people as well as dealing tons of damage to everyone.

Are you seriously trying to tell me, that 30% ap ratio on her q, is better than a 80% on her q now? Or that 10% per sec, is better than 15% per sec? OR. That her so called "higher ap ratio on her e at level 5" (40/45/50/55/60)" Is better than her 60% ap ratio through all levels? And yeah, a heal is nice, but if you really want a heal, just get a Will Of The Ancients and you'd prolly heal more than this bullcrap update.

And I like the whole concept of a whole poison champion, with the emphasis damage on the poison, and not on her mashing button.

Honestly this is just gonna bring support cass's.

But yeah, you got me, her "new" ap ratios are absolutely so much better than the old ones.

Knight SoIaire Aug 31, 20141 votes

We aren't crying, we're rioting

the rest of your post proves me otherwise

all you do is cry about the things that got weaker and totaly ignore the things that got better sayinng that you dont like them

if you dont like the champ then dont play it, instead of that everybody is lashing out at riot trying to get force their wersion of cassiopea onto them (every freaking thread says that cassio is bad, AND HAS COUPLE OF VERIONNS OF CASSIO'S KIT IN IT)

riot has their idea and i see it working, you see it working too but you want her to be remade to your specific taste those threads are pointless

KhodexusAug 31, 20142 votes

They are only pointless because Riot doesn't listen to the fanbase the way they say they want to. They're encouraging us to share our voice, but often it seems we don't actually have a voice. It seems to me that Riot wants us to feel we are directly involved in shaping the game, so that we'll play more, and give them more money, but they don't actually want us to be involved, because frankly, it doesn't necessarily make sense from a business standpoint.

What I see is Riot basing 99% of their decisions on data accumulated in 'pro' games. And from a financial standpoint, that makes some sense, as the pro games are their biggest source of advertising, and the majority of people will 'follow the leads' of the professional players. However, that being said, the vast majority of their players are not pros. I don't know the exact numbers, but they are gamers like you and me, who want to be heard, and will eventually become frustrated that our voices are listened to, only to then be ignored.

So if it sounds like we are complaining, that is only because Riot has consistently frustrated us, and we're getting sick of it. And I only hope they will learn from this mistake before it really comes back to bite them. The Professional circuit is a strong foundation for their game, and their financial success. But if they do not build on that to support the actual majority of their financial contributors, I could see this game going downhill, and never recovering.

But then, I could be wrong.

Knight SoIaire Aug 31, 20141 votes

i dont thing that riot wants players to dictate kits riot is already bound by lcs ballance not to mention that htye are more experiennced at making champs that random players

if riot wants to hear players voice they will ask us for opinion about the outlines of a champ, this time riot decided that they know what they want to they did it, and all that players do is cry (sorry but looking at the lack of logic some of ppl who post in those threads show i cant call it a disagrement with the changes) about it not fitting into their vision of the champ

KhodexusAug 31, 20143 votes

I never said anything about players dictating kits.

Riot HAS asked us for opinions, and then promptly ignored them, again and again. Even when said opinions are very overwhelmingly similar on the forums. Even when a proposal gets more downvotes than the worst troll thread I've ever seen.

I would not honestly expect Riot to let the players tell them how the game should be. But how can I NOT fault them for asking for input, and then ignoring it so spectacularly?

This is not a commentary specifically about this thread, but about a trend that frustrates players like me and ShadowArcher6, and an explanation for why we have the right to express frustration with the situation.

I'm not trying to change your opinion on Cass. I'm pointing out that your tone and insults are unwarranted and immature, and that we have good reason to feel frustrated with Riot. I also agreed with you that these threads were pointless, but that still does not justify you demeaning your fellow players, simply for expressing that frustration.

Knight SoIaire Aug 31, 20141 votes

this is an interesting point because it also relies on interpretation of riot listening to players

riot has their hands kinda tied to making things follow the design perspective of new champs, and they cant realy shape them in connection with players, like you see every time they update something (sona, cassio)

i give them points for trying to harwest some input from the playerbase, but i personaly cant see them being able to do it propertly

ShadowParkerAug 31, 20142 votes

Did I say I was trying to make her to my specific tastes? No. I'm saying that they should leave her alone where she is, shes fine where she is honestly.

Riot tries their best, and I acknowledge that they are trying to do what is best, they're pretty fan friendly, but they NEVER listen to fans when it comes to stuff like this. Once they start a rework, they NEVER ask if the community actually wants it or not

Knight SoIaire Sep 1, 20141 votes

Once they start a rework, they NEVER ask if the community actually wants it or not

because community always says no (there is no such champ that wouldnt hit a wall of flame once riot encloses the reworked kit, im preety sure that thye will flame even when they rework urgot)

and afte the champ gets reworked and ballanced nobody bats an eye because champ works and is fine

ShadowParkerSep 1, 20141 votes

Of course their will always be some people saying no, but the majority, alot of people don't like this rework to Cassiopeia or sona(I actually like the new sona hehe)

I actually like playing urgot as well... But hes just... idk underpowered, I'm actually gonna start a thread on him, I feel it would be pretty easy to fix him :p

KhodexusSep 1, 20142 votes

I don't expect Riot to cater to every player posted opinion, by any stretch. And in truth these specific changes don't sound too terrible for Cass. But it does sound like they are narrowing her playstyle and options significantly, which I honestly can't get that excited about.

The main issue for me is when they invite feedback, and then don't seem to actually listen to any of that feedback. I got really passionate about the Sona update. They posted it way in advance (at least that's what they claimed), and invited tons of feedback. But even though it seemed everyone was adamantly against such a drastic change in the identity of her and her auras, I honestly could not see a single actual change between when they first presented the idea, to when they put her live.

So I feel like what was the point of all that testing, and asking for feedback, if they had no intention of making any changes between that point and when she went live?

After that, I've just lost faith in any kind of fan feedback with this company. So yes, this type of thread serves no real purpose, in my mind. But I also feel people like ShadowArcher6 is completely justified in his feelings/tone.