Daily Reminder That Zilean Needs a New Passive

ShadowParker·Aug 9, 2015·337 votes·25,310 views

Upvote till we get noticed.

236 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirAug 9, 2015117 votes

What kinds of passives are you guys interested in on Zilean?

I have to admit, I've never really been a Zilean main or anything, but I know his passive is probably one of the least satisfying in the game. It would be pretty cool to get it swapped out if we could imo (this isn't to say we would immediately, btw).

Edit: lots of cool ideas in here. Some relatively common ideas/themes seem to be:

Rewind as a passive
Hasting/Slowing effects
More interesting experience effects or cooler ways to distribute experience
Something to help his solo lane

I'll think about this stuff and pass it on to 20thCenturyFaux as well (that guy loves Zilean, and I know is interested in a better Zilean passive). Serioiusly, these ideas are really awesome; I'm glad I popped in.

Teridax68Aug 9, 201584 votes

Have you considered implementing Rewind as a passive? For example, every few seconds Zilean would get to re-cast one of his basic abilities while it's on cooldown, which would work well with his time theme and streamline the double-casting process somewhat, while also opening up space for a new, potentially more interesting active. One of his biggest issues right now is the lack of power he can output onto other champions relative to other mages and supports, due to his lesser number of outwardly-oriented active abilities, and moving his kit around would open up the opportunity for him to make a greater amount of choices beyond QWQ and the occasional movespeed modfier alongside it.

Rew711Aug 10, 20154 votes

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking on this. He lacks what others have. He may had got a stun, but it costs him a lot. He may have a slow, but its speed boost lacks until late. That's kind of it. I wish he had a heal on his W. Zilean being a healer would be too far off as he can speed up the healing rate a champion can heal. Or, he can give back mana which was something taken from Soraka. And then there's the possibility that he could do a different healing move that heals what you took from however seconds ago. (I'd also like there to be a nice thing going on with his abilities as his Q is called Time Bomb, simple enough, and his E is called Warp, I was hoping his W could be called Time Heal.)

TotalJerkAug 10, 20155 votes

That's such a fucking obvious idea and I can't understand why I or anyone else didn't think of it. Riot please do this.

PoskeAug 10, 20156 votes

Thats absolutely EPIC IDEA

Riot hire this guy

With this change Zil could have more interesting qwe actives since passive would rewind just 1 spell (:

With that kind of passive Q- Dont change W- Obviously change I was hoping for some thematic ability . Slows down time for enemies in an area you hit (litearly everything they do ) or something similar which is travel time based E- lets be real its kinda boring however I would just add some fun tweaks instead of completly changing it

MecarAug 10, 201511 votes

For a new W, what about a zone that slows enemy projectiles and skillshots passing throught it and speed allied projectiles ?

Photos of GhostsAug 10, 20154 votes

This has been said so many times: requires HUGE resources and is very difficult to balance.

PersonwithhatAug 10, 20152 votes

How about this:(Might edit later if people care enough :P)

Passive:

Zilean winds time-wards, caching away a period of time "passing" for use in the future. He can store up to a maximum of 1/2 at a time and regens them at a rate of one per 20/15 seconds, affected by CDR.

Using an ability while it is on CD uses up a time-ward (if available), decreasing the CD by up to 5/8 seconds, multiple casts stack (EX: 3 casts on, say, ult reduces its CD by 24 seconds)

Ult lv.1 = can store 2, ult lv.2 = CD reduction increased ult lv.3 = regen increased

Q: Unchanged. (At most you can "triple-bomb" , decent and seems balanced as it is, adds that minor increase in damage/stun duration)

W- Fast-forward: "All things pass, with time."

Zilean ages an enemy champion, decreasing their AS by X% and maximum health by Y%, increasing over the course of Z seconds (Kind of like Nasus wither). Recasting stacks but the durations don't. (overlap stacks, etc. Get it?)

E: Same

R: same

PokladnicaZlaAug 11, 20153 votes

What about his E changing into something similar to the LB's W?

Short range spell with around 50 mana cost which slow enemies/speeds buff allies and leaves a platform under their current loaction.If casted again returns the target to the platform for 80 mana. The 1. cast should have a low mana cost,but the second cast also needs a much higher mana cost ,because of balance reasons.It provides an interesting play for Zilean and also give of the time-mage vibe.

Would this be a good idea?

Celeste BenalAug 10, 20152 votes

I like having rewind on W. It allows for a lot of player-determined choices, primarily focused n when to W, and thus pretty much reseting Q and E. Also, is double Q stun is utterly dependent on using W to rest Q.

20thCenturyFauxAug 11, 20157 votes

We did indeed! Before the Zilean update was released, we had some time to tinker with broader ideas. In the end we didn't have the scope or resources to do more at that time, but the passive was definitely on our radar. At the time, I tested two main takes on the passive:

Passive as rewind

There are a couple potential versions of this. The one we played with was, "Zilean can reactivate a spell while it's cooling down to cast it again. Doing so puts the passive on the spell's remaining cooldown," revolving around the choice of which spell to get back. I could also easily imagine a version of this that works identically to current rewind. One caveat to this approach is that rewind means the other spells have to be such that they're strong within reason when cast twice. That's not too hard when you've got two other spells to play with, but when there's three it gets a little trickier to make them all still feel good. Not a deal-breaker but something to keep in mind!

Passive as warp

I tried a bunch of versions of this. Generally they involved Zilean being able to go to a place and mark it, then later return there by clicking on a thing there or by using his (targetable) recall on the spot. For example, one had it such that if Zilean stood still for a few moments, he'd leave behind a little ghost of himself he could click to warp back there.

In the short range warp case, it was cool and timey but didn't fit Zilean's gameplay well--he doesn't have a lot of reason to want to dart around and be mobile, so all it really did was make him safer. It also didn't fit his feel well outside his theme--characters that dash around a lot tend feel frenetic, hyperactive and tricksy; Zilean's feel is more "above it all", fast but calculated and in broad strokes, almost godlike. The summoner teleport-y versions were kind of neat, but didn't do much that summoner teleport didn't already do unless the way the spots were generated was extra interesting. Generating spots where Zilean saved someone with Chronoshift or where someone died was kind of cool, but felt more necromantic than temporal.

Generally I think using Rewind as the passive could work, but the idea I'm currently most interested is a spiced up XP passive. Things like more concentrated/interesting gameplay around XP, or potentially letting Zilean exceed level 18 are the things I'd like to look at if I get another chance to work on Zilean. Him getting some play in LJL was an awesome surprise, I really wanna see more of this guy on the rift.

Teridax68Aug 11, 20151 votes

Thank you so much for the response (btw, how come you're not listed as a Rioter?)!

If you could find a way to make Zilean do unique stuff with experience and leveling, that could be fantastic, as it's a niche that's unique to him, even if it's not currently implemented in the best way. Would this be a passive that would only benefit Zilean, or would you also look to him being able to accelerate his allies' leveling? I imagine an issue you'd have to tackle is that of remaining manageable even with an XP lead, since Zilean's current damage ramps up especially fast in the laning phase before significantly mellowing out, and preventing his allies from snowballing too hard may also be something to address.

On the subject of making every basic ability double-cast, though, I feel it's already possible even now. Time Bomb has enough damage on its own to be a noticeable ability, and its stun combo manages to be both strong and difficult enough to achieve that Zil doesn't go overboard with QWQ. Double-casting E doesn't seem to be really problematic, and I imagine potentially designing another active to work with a passive Rewind would allow you to better tailor a time-related skill to it that would remain under control.

Riot20thCenturyFauxAug 11, 20154 votes

I did it wrong when I posted, I think xD

Riot20thCenturyFauxAug 11, 20155 votes

This is definitely me, just not red tagged on EUW xD

blueberrypancakeAug 10, 20156 votes

Anything that has the theme of time

Anything that can give you a tempo focused lead that isn't ~~experience related (because we all know how that failed)~~ or converting his w somehow into his passive and giving him a new w

Edit: Or make his passive change how his abilities work depending on if it is the last one he used so he can get rid of that horrible w

If we could somehow make his passive that is like Magical Sap which applies to what happened in the past and did an effect depending on what happen

Whatever the new ZIlean passive dos it better apply to both AP and Support varations

Edit: Also give his E an Attack speed reduction, there aren't many supports who can do so and it fits with his theme

It gives a good balance against hyper carries

LavanielAug 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Have you considered implementing Rewind as a passive? For example, every few seconds Zilean would get to re-cast one of his basic abilities while it's on cooldown, which would work well with his time theme and streamline the double-casting process somewhat, while also opening up space for a new, potentially more interesting active. One of his biggest issues right now is the lack of power he can output onto other champions relative to other mages and supports, due to his lesser number of outwardly-oriented active abilities, and moving his kit around would open up the opportunity for him to make a greater amount of choices beyond QWQ and the occasional movespeed modfier alongside it.

Hm, so what you're saying is,

_Rewind (Passive), Zilean gains 1 stack every 10 seconds (arbitrary number) towards casting an ability, stacking up to two per each unique (non-ultimate) ability. _

You could then go on to make each spell cast unique.

_He can then cast each spell twice, the first cast costing 100% of its total mana, and the next costing 125% of its mana. All damaging abilities will deal 25% more damage. _

I think this would be pretty cool, Zilean get's rewarded for laning his Q. Then about the W... Perhaps:

Timewarp: Zilean unleashes energy from time, dealing 90/ 110 / 130 / 150 / 170 (+40%) and slowing the champion by some percent (not very large).

With these changes, Zilean can become a midlaner again, as well as a support, by dealing AOE damage and having another way to poke people. The numbers and ratios are of course arbitrary and would need to be adjusted, but its a simple start. Nice work guys.

Lil SoybeanAug 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Hm, so what you're saying is,

_Rewind (Passive), Zilean gains 1 stack every 10 seconds (arbitrary number) towards casting an ability, stacking up to two per each unique (non-ultimate) ability. _

You could then go on to make each spell cast unique.

_He can then cast each spell twice, the first cast costing 100% of its total mana, and the next costing 125% of its mana. All damaging abilities will deal 25% more damage. _

I think this would be pretty cool, Zilean get's rewarded for laning his Q. Then about the W... Perhaps:

Timewarp: Zilean unleashes energy from time, dealing 90/ 110 / 130 / 150 / 170 (+40%) and slowing the champion by some percent (not very large).

With these changes, Zilean can become a midlaner again, as well as a support, by dealing AOE damage and having another way to poke people. The numbers and ratios are of course arbitrary and would need to be adjusted, but its a simple start. Nice work guys.

You are making him into a different champion. It's interesting theorycrafting but it would essentially change everything about his playstyle. He DOES have a very, very specific and in-depth playstyle regarding the spacing of your double bombs in teamfights, what items/levels you need to reach certain movespeed levels, the combos you can do with your rewind... (for example, you can't speed yourself AND slow an enemy before double bombing. Your passive removes that limitation, meaning they'd have to rebalance him entirely.)

Honestly, I would like people to stop arbitrarily throwing out "timey-wimey" suggestions just because he's unpopular and they don't think his current kit is good. EDIT: Sorry, I wasn't referring to you in particular. I'm talking about a common trend I see of people who don't play Zilean saying to throw in X generic time-themed spell in place of one of his core abilities. It's just frustrating seeing people arbitrarily suggest to completely overhaul a favorite champion of mine with abilities that match thematically, but don't match his playstyle at all.

It is. It's quite good. The numbers are the only problems keeping him from strong viability.
Not the abilities or the playstyle. So please don't change those.

The passive can go, though.

Voluug13Aug 10, 20152 votes

He needs some reliability as a sololaner, which was his primary role pre-rework. Riot should have respected the mage in utility mage before the utility.

junglerboy16Aug 10, 20154 votes

His current passive is bad mostly because it has such limited range.

Of course, we all know how game changing it was when it was global, but now that it is only for units almost directly around him, it feels pathetic. you could put his current passive in as a passive on any of his abilities, give him a new passive, and still leave him fine.

I think that the best direction to look for a new passive would have to involve something that combines Zilean's traits of being highly learned (which his current passive makes an attempt at) but also the fact that he is afflicted with "Chrono-Displasia" according to his lore, which is a really cool concept that is severely under-utilized within his kit. For those unfamiliar (as in, haven't read his lore) his Chrono-Displasia means that his consciousness is not linked securely to his body, allowing his mind to travel backwards and forwards in time, but not able to directly alter events, only to witness and learn from them.

I'm not sure how that could be worked into a functional passive or some other aspect of his kit, but it is a really under-developed aspect to his identity that would be pretty awesome to dive into and explore a bit more directly.

GofodosAug 10, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I think that the best direction to look for a new passive would have to involve something that combines Zilean's traits of being highly learned (which his current passive makes an attempt at) but also the fact that he is afflicted with "Chrono-Displasia" according to his lore, which is a really cool concept that is severely under-utilized within his kit. For those unfamiliar (as in, haven't read his lore) his Chrono-Displasia means that his consciousness is not linked securely to his body, allowing his mind to travel backwards and forwards in time, but not able to directly alter events, only to witness and learn from them.

I'm not sure how that could be worked into a functional passive or some other aspect of his kit, but it is a really under-developed aspect to his identity that would be pretty awesome to dive into and explore a bit more directly.

Based on his lore he has the ability to see what happend in the past and present. (future would be nice, but a little complicated to implement :) )

So why not giving him some kind of true sight and be able to detect wards, teemo shrooms and maybe even stealthed champions (but I think that would be op) because he knows where they placed them or where they are. But he is not able to attack them without real true sight from oracle, sweeping lens or pink.

Or he can see shadows of enemy champions, like the ekko ult. So he can see where they have been a few seconds ago and has true sight on the shadows.

Or he has the ability to gain true sight of all enemy champions every minute or two for a few seconds. But this must be on a static cooldown and can not activly activated by zilean, so that the enemy knows approximately when they are revealed and zil is not able to reveal the enemy team before each dragon or baron. Or there is little indicator showing enemies that they've being revealed in the next 3 secs or so.

Just a few toughts.

I hope his passive is getting a little love soon, cause I really like playing him. :)

Greetz

TrebbiAug 10, 20151 votes

Pretty much what pretty bard suggested.

Passive: Rewind. After casting a basic ability, Zilean may cast it again within 5 seconds for half the cost.

This makes it so he doesnt have to press W wich is a boring ability which can be replaced by another 1 point wonder spell.

Also with this this being his passive he can slow and speed up or cast double bombs.

If this becomes OP you could always increase his initial costs.

blueberrypancakeAug 10, 20153 votes

Instead of having it cost less it should cost more because then you aren't acounting for CD's making him broken so he needs to be punishable after so many casts

I do my take on your idea

Passive: Retrospect

ZIlean gains 1 stack everytime he casts an ability and when an Ally champion casts an ability. When Zilean reaches 3 stacks the 3rd last ability Zilean used has no mana cost and has amplified affect, however if Zilean does not choose to use said ability and casts another then the 3rd last ability after the latter is free and has amplified affect until Zilean uses 3rd last ability. You lose all retrospect stacks after casting 3rd last ability.

Basically, the 3rd last ability is free and it stays free until you use it, but if you keep casting abilities after procing retrospect but not using 3rd last ability then it changes to the 3rd last ability as of your last spell cast.

If you are still confused then it keeps changing until you use it

This forces you to plan ahead of time what ability you are use the free affect an amplified affect for while still having counterplay as you opponent will always be able to react to knowing what the 3rd last ability you used unless you did it outside your field of view (also for QOL you can always add on the HUD what the 3rd last you used is helping you while also increasing counterplay as all enemys can see your buffs and debuffs when you look at their target frame (that screen that pops up when you click on a champion) . Although this passive might be similar to Rengar's it very much fit the theme of Zilean's

Wow that is a mess

This still might be weak though so you might either have to add a second passive or make the applified affects to be really strong.

I know there might be some paradox's with my wording but try and interpret it best as you can

Voluug13Aug 10, 20155 votes

Honestly, while his passive was decent back when it affected 5 players by default, it was kinda off and didnt fit unless you compare it to DBZ's Time Chamber or something.

Something he needs is more solo lane precense. His only damage source is unreliable and was nerfed. His supporting is extremely niche and is still outclassed by other supports. Other utility mages are better supports that him.

He needs definition. He doesnt have enough utility compared to other supports but he isnt powerful enough to sololane, nor he has a sololane niche anymore. He needs either more, and more reliable, damage, or better supporting.

Making Rewind a passive as an option could be good, but currently Rewind has a big time flaw: Q and E could have a charges system and have absolutely no difference aside a button push less. What he needs is:

New passive, possibly the Rewind one. Because it could be the same except for the button push. It also frees W, which allows for...
New W, that allows him to sololane or support better. A damage source? Utility? That is up to you guys.

Honestly I could prefer a damage source, a reliable one at that. His sololaning was more important and used pre-rework that his supporting, and that is something that should have been respected. Having a niche like ''anti-assassin'' is a good niche IMO, and I dont see anything wrong with it.

I wish Zilean could have that back at least, because that is the Zilean I played for years. Mid Zilean was one of my favorite mids during ~~the hell that was~~ assassin meta.

~~Please dont take Zilean from me like you took Karma away from me.~~

Hotkey123Aug 10, 20154 votes

I was thinking Mordekaiser's passive on his W in aura form would work well on Zillean.

Mordekaiser's- Mordekaiser receives full experience from any lane minion he kills.

Zillean- Zillean's allies receives full experience from any lane minion they kill.

It would be a small change but I think it would be better (I don't have the magical power of math with me).

McAllisterAug 10, 20152 votes

"Whenever (Zilean/an enemy within 1000 range) casts a spell, the closest ally to Zilean has one skill that's currently on CD, chosen at random, reduce the CD by 1 second. If none of the closest ally's skills are on CD, look for a different ally. Affects allies within 1000 range."

ErockandrollAug 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

What kinds of passives are you guys interested in on Zilean?

I have to admit, I've never really been a Zilean main or anything, but I know his passive is probably one of the least satisfying in the game. It would be pretty cool to get it swapped out if we could imo (this isn't to say we would immediately, btw).

Personally, I would think he would need a lot more than that. Prior to the mini rework on his bombs, He was an ult bot who could go either mid or support. Now, he really can't do either. But aside from his super powerful ult. He only has two spells to actually do anything with. And only one of those spells deals damage. (but if he should remain a support, I'd be fine with that)

here are a few of my ideas.

passive: heightened time scene.

Basic spells cast now reduce the cast time of all other spells. (Ryze's old passive basically)

Q- time bomb

Now uses an Ammo system, no longer reliant on rewind. (which I'm replacing)

W- (new) accelerated recovery

Target allied gains 200% base health regen for 8 seconds. (note: a lot of supports have burst healing, but I would think it would be cool if one support had some sustain healing.

TerraRisingAug 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What kinds of passives are you guys interested in on Zilean?

It would be nice if there was some sort of time-influenced gimmick for Zilean's new passive:

Increased AR and MR the longer he engages with the enemy (he studies his opponents and can protect himself against their damage).
- Or, go the other way and have Zilean's spells do a bonus damage/cc to champs he's engaged with the longest.
Lowers cooldowns on allies within a certain range as he casts spells.
Increased mana and health regen the longer he's away from base.

Blade of JusticAug 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Lowers cooldowns on allies within a certain range as he casts spells.

Now THIS is a good passive.

F@#$ people wanting his W changed, give us this.

LittleBlastAug 10, 20154 votes

I have an idea, whenever Zilean Lands his Stun, his basic ability cooldowns are refuced to 1/2 the normal cd. This rewards him for landing a stun, and lets him become a bomb throwing madman if he can hit his stun.

Meeks011Aug 10, 20153 votes

A Rioter replying to a balance post? I need to screenshot this.

DrCyanideAug 10, 20152 votes

Time is Money, right? Zilean could have a passive that plays on that, giving him more gold. Gold without interaction would be boring though, so perhaps give him gold for him effecting time. Stun an enemy or a group of enemies? They lost time, you get gold. Slow an enemy, get some (but less) gold. Speed an ally up, get some gold. Chronoshift an ally (and they actually die with it on them), get a lot of gold.

ArkenStormAug 10, 20152 votes

One, thank you for commenting so much on champion balance, it's awesome. Two, a passive idea I came up with was something like the following: Zilean draws in excess energy from spellcasts to rejuvenate him. Every X nearby spellcasts restores X health and X mana

Glory to GodAug 10, 20153 votes

Well, I had this idea in my mind for a while. Passive: Allies within 2000 range gain 8% 6% more experience. NEW Time Master: When Zilean reaches level 18 he gains a passive called 'Time Master' which gives him 5 ap per minute that passed in the game. May or may not be affected by item 3089

PokladnicaZlaAug 11, 20152 votes

What about his E changing into something similar to the LB's W?

Would this be a good idea?

Voluug13Aug 9, 201517 votes

Zilean needs a real rework, not a ''he was countering assassins and we dont like that'' nerfwork.

Revert Chronoshift duration nerf.

Reduce Q travel time and increase its damage OR give him an anti assassin W and give Q/E charges.

New passive:

Time Paradox: Every 20/15/10 seconds Zilean gains Paradox, which empowers one of his abilities:

Time Bombs buff/heal/speed allies.
W something for W.
Time Warp now gives a DoT/HoT depending on target.
Chronoshift can be used to deal half of the Chronoshift heal after the same time for normal Chronoshift.

Or something, idk. Anything is better that current Zilean. Current Zilean doesnt have a niche either in botlane or midlane.

BârdAug 9, 201511 votes

Passive: Rewind. After casting a basic ability, Zilean may cast it again within 5 seconds for half the cost.

Q: Time bomb Throw a cluster of bombs, so you can have them stick to multiple targets (Any one enemy may only be damaged by 1 bomb per cast)

W: Heightened Learning Passive: Zilean and nearby allies gain bonus XP every second Active: Zilean marks a target enemy. Marked enemies have the remaining cooldowns of their Summoner spells, active items, and abilities revealed for 5 seconds.

ComannderShepardAug 9, 20153 votes

Sounds neat. +1

OrisiAug 9, 20156 votes

except revealing all that is gonna mean having to target the enemy and stare at their info box to know whats on cooldown.

Much MORE interesting would be "Zilean marks a target enemy. All enemy spell cooldowns are extended by 2/2.5/3/3.5/4 seconds."

helps you lock out damage for low-cooldown enemies.

ComannderShepardAug 9, 20152 votes

So, a super long silence?

Tis a nice dayAug 9, 20152 votes

I actually quite like this W and Passive switch. Only one issue however. Since the second cast costs less, is there ever a situation where you don't want to double cast except for when you're almost empty on mana?

It seems there would be more strategic depth if mana cost was increased for the second cast as if Zilean had to spend additional effort to rewind his cooldowns to pump out another spell (similar to what current Zilean Rewind does). You can either single cast for mana-efficient damage/CC, or double cast for burstier but costlier abilities.

Edit: Is it okay if I make this idea a separate thread since I genuinely think this is a neat idea?

YOLO420SWAGSCOPEAug 9, 201511 votes

What about all enemies in range of aura get a 4/8/10/12% movespeed slow

nearby enemy rivens will get a 99% slow instead

Chespin2013Aug 9, 20152 votes

What about Vaynes?

foinhasAug 10, 20158 votes

99% attack speed reduction

FadedpfAug 9, 20155 votes

What if he had a 10% attack speed reduction aura around him. Some sort of "old age passive". Just thinking of something new.

Lil SoybeanAug 9, 201513 votes

{quoted}

What if he had a 10% attack speed reduction aura around him. Some sort of "old age passive". Just thinking of something new.

That'd probably be really weak and it would also be nearly useless in his solo laning. (Yes, he actually still can solo lane decently) No offense, I'd just like something more synergistic with his kit. Something that feels better, not just a passive "your enemies are a tiny tiny bit weaker if they're near you."

Personally I think the XP aura is actually good - He scales well with levels, and hitting 6 first can mean a free 2v2 or 1v1 - but why did they keep it at 8% xp when they nerfed the range from global to a small area around him?

The current passive could work if they increases the XP bonus considerably. Considering it went from helping all 5 allies to just yourself and maybe one other, they could have at least doubled it to 16%. Sound too strong? Maybe a team might actually, you know, have a reason to pick him then? Lol.

OrisiAug 9, 20152 votes

Sounds less strong when they're giving mord full exp in duo lanes. Until you run Mord/Zil botlane.

Arsenic SulfurAug 12, 20151 votes

When people get to level 18 he has no passive. The only other champions to lose their passive is Quinn. And that's only in Valor form which lasts for about 20 seconds! That and you get to level 2 (Yes, ONLY level 2) ONE minion faster! After that it's practically useless. With the armor nerfs he won't survive in mid lane because Assassins will be somewhat dominant because tanks will be much weaker. It's easily the worst passive in the game. At least the triggered on death passives allow for people to take their killers down with them, or in Karthus's case get an uninterrupted ult off.

Riot20thCenturyFauxAug 12, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pixel Invoker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QbJ7Wmf8,comment-id=002c,timestamp=2015-08-12T00:30:49.897+0000)

When people get to level 18 he has no passive. The only other champions to lose their passive is Quinn. And that's only in Valor form which lasts for about 20 seconds! That and you get to level 2 (Yes, ONLY level 2) ONE minion faster! After that it's practically useless. With the armor nerfs he won't survive in mid lane because Assassins will be somewhat dominant because tanks will be much weaker. It's easily the worst passive in the game. At least the triggered on death passives allow for people to take their killers down with them, or in Karthus's case get an uninterrupted ult off.

The other weird thing about XP mechanics on Zil is that he sometimes goes mid, sometimes bot, and supports often don't reach level 18 by game end. If his passive does something cool at level 18 - say, letting him go past level 18 for example - then there also probably should be something in there that helps supports stretch to that goal.

ShénzhìAug 12, 20152 votes

Scaling Reduced Death timer! Unique and somehow fits his old story, too, doesn't it?

DantilqAug 13, 20152 votes

Give him the exp that death of ally would give to enemies, whenever he successfully manage to utilize his ultimate on an ally.

Zilean is level 15, Kogmaw level 18. Kogmaw dies, but have Rewind on him. He is revived and Zilean earns 1400 experience or whatever it is level 18 champ is worth.